Why Can't we play like Swansea ?

[papereyes]

If we played with both wide players staying wide - i.e. standing on the touchline, the way the Swansea players were - then we would have to play 4-5-1 or we'd get overrun in midfield.
I think our defeat at Swansea was largely down to tactics. Once Marek came on and we played a sort of 4-5-1, we did start to compete.

One other thing. Swansea were great to watch against Fulhman and were unlucky not to win. But they didn't win, and still may end up going out.

But Fulham are an established Premiership side and you'd expect them to have better players. Not all that noteworthy, really.

[Kevin Doyles Right Foot]

because we are Reading

[Hoop Blah]

The one thing I would say is that I've always believed that the best way to suceed is by playing 'better' football that is harder to perfect as it in turn becomes harder counter.

The Arsene Wenger school of thought ?

I actually think that the best teams are able to strike a balance between 'pretty' and 'effective'. Man Utd have that balance pretty well Arsenal try too hard to play perfect football and Chelsea have become a bit too 'functional'.

Isn't one problem that there is no one definition of 'better' football. Wimbledon didn't play beautiful football but they were incredibly successful. Half the Championship play nice triangles and create long passing moves but don't win games.

This is a rare occassion where I agree with you.

I should have pointed out that you can go a bit too far the other way and pass for passings sake. I should probably have pointed out that there is a time frame that it applies to as well. Short term success playing a cruder style isn't that rare, keeping that success going over a longer time usually requires a 'better' style.

I also agree that the definition of better football is a little hard to nail down. Personally I don't think it involves largely playing to the percentages and hitting the easy direct balls into the channels.

[brendywendy]

Sorry, but I must say if you can't appreciate how they go about the way they play more than anything then you can't be a football fan. Any fan of the game wold enjoy the way they try and play. It might not be the most effective way of playing in this division (as they aren't in the top 2.....yet) but in terms of entertainment and skill, it's right up there with any other team around.

im not sure about the strolling around at the back keeping possession part, found that quite dull on saturday
prefer our get it out wide quickly approach personally
but then what do i know- i find arsenals pass it into the net approach quite dull too

[Alan Partridge]

Sorry, but I must say if you can't appreciate how they go about the way they play more than anything then you can't be a football fan. Any fan of the game wold enjoy the way they try and play. It might not be the most effective way of playing in this division (as they aren't in the top 2.....yet) but in terms of entertainment and skill, it's right up there with any other team around.

im not sure about the strolling around at the back keeping possession part, found that quite dull on saturday
prefer our get it out wide quickly approach personally
but then what do i know- i find arsenals pass it into the net approach quite dull too

Holy jesus you cannot be serious, you found their game dull?!!! They hardly passed it around their back 4 allgame, they hit the post, Schwarzer had to make 3 top saves and scored a quite brilliant goal. Whilst using some excellent wing pay, of dribbling past players, good crossing, skillful football.

If you found it dull then seriously what are you watching football for?!

[Sarah Star]

If we played with both wide players staying wide - i.e. standing on the touchline, the way the Swansea players were - then we would have to play 4-5-1 or we'd get overrun in midfield.
I think our defeat at Swansea was largely down to tactics. Once Marek came on and we played a sort of 4-5-1, we did start to compete.

One other thing. Swansea were great to watch against Fulhman and were unlucky not to win. But they didn't win, and still may end up going out.

I thought that was the way we played and we did get overun in midfield

[brendywendy]

nothing like a bit of HNA patronising over reaction!!!!]
no, i didnt say i found the game dull, not by any stretch-was a great game

but i was thinking as the back four passed it back and fore at one point when i think they were 1-0 down-jesus, just get it forward FFS- & it was just before the commentator mentioned it, saying the swansea fans are happy with this style of play because they are used to it, so he obviously noticed too, so it cant have been that daft a thing to think.

but then i do realise that our more direct approach results in way less possession, and more attacks by the opposition too, i guess its just what im used to with watching reading

[Alan Partridge]

nothing like a bit of HNA patronising over reaction!!!!]
no, i didnt say i found the game dull, not by any stretch-was a great game

but i was thinking as the back four passed it back and fore at one point when i think they were 1-0 down-jesus, just get it forward FFS-it was at just before the commentator mentioned it saying the swansea fans are happy with this style of play because they are used to it, so he obviously noticed too, so it cant have been that daft a thing to think.

but then i do realise that our more direct approach results in way less possession, and more attacks by the opposition too, i guess its just what im used to with watching reading

Apologies brendy in mis-reading your post.

However still disagree, that's where the foreign influence comes in, take the spain-england game theother day how many times did spain 'get it forward'?. It's a very English trait and why we are rubbish internationally, and why lots of teams struggle in the Premiership is because they don't keep the ball well enough. If you keep trying that long pass and giving it away, then don't see the ball for 2-3mins a time, the only people you are tiring out is yourselves. Spain grinded England down in that game, technically superior and better with the ball, that's the same philosphy that Swansea use. Personally quite the opposite of 'boring' I saw it as a very impressive way fpr a 2nd division side to play it. Can expect it from top players but to get ladsthat wereplaying in League 2 not so long ago doing that to top international players and making them chase it around thepark was really quite something.

[Great Knolly]

If we played with both wide players staying wide - i.e. standing on the touchline, the way the Swansea players were - then we would have to play 4-5-1 or we'd get overrun in midfield.
I think our defeat at Swansea was largely down to tactics. Once Marek came on and we played a sort of 4-5-1, we did start to compete.

One other thing. Swansea were great to watch against Fulhman and were unlucky not to win. But they didn't win, and still may end up going out.

I thought that was the way we played and we did get overun in midfield

Shunt in particular tucks in quite often. What was notable about Swansea was that both wide men were right out on the touchline nearly all the time. I don't think you can do that with only 2 in the middle.

If you watch Reading - for instance at goal kicks - If one wide man is on the touch line the man on the other wing will tuck-in

[Ian Royal]

Sorry, but I must say if you can't appreciate how they go about the way they play more than anything then you can't be a football fan. Any fan of the game wold enjoy the way they try and play. It might not be the most effective way of playing in this division (as they aren't in the top 2.....yet) but in terms of entertainment and skill, it's right up there with any other team around.

im not sure about the strolling around at the back keeping possession part, found that quite dull on saturday
prefer our get it out wide quickly approach personally
but then what do i know- i find arsenals pass it into the net approach quite dull too

Holy jesus you cannot be serious, you found their game dull?!!! They hardly passed it around their back 4 allgame, they hit the post, Schwarzer had to make 3 top saves and scored a quite brilliant goal. Whilst using some excellent wing pay, of dribbling past players, good crossing, skillful football.

If you found it dull then seriously what are you watching football for?!

I found them frustrating. They passed it well and attacked quickly quite a lot. But there were plenty of times they had a chance to try putting a good ball into the box or switching play with a longer ball which they ignored.

Some of their set pieces were totally foolish IMO. start a passing move when you can get a good ball in the box?

overall thoroughly enjoyable game to watch though.

[Sun Tzu]

Swansea are an upper mid table Championship side, so whilst they have an ambitious style it's hardly surprising they don't play it perfectly all the time. They are going to mess up, or play too many passes and sometimes the long direct ball is the right one to play.

Martinez is also a very inexperienced manager and he's going to make tactical errors. They are an interesting study, much as we were a few years back. I'm not convinced that they wouldn't get absolutely ripped to shreds in the premiership, but then people thought we would be.

It will be interesting to see whether Martinez can develop them, introduce new players, cope with a serious loss of form.

Good luck to them.

[brendywendy]

nothing like a bit of HNA patronising over reaction!!!!]
no, i didnt say i found the game dull, not by any stretch-was a great game

but i was thinking as the back four passed it back and fore at one point when i think they were 1-0 down-jesus, just get it forward FFS-it was at just before the commentator mentioned it saying the swansea fans are happy with this style of play because they are used to it, so he obviously noticed too, so it cant have been that daft a thing to think.

but then i do realise that our more direct approach results in way less possession, and more attacks by the opposition too, i guess its just what im used to with watching reading

Apologies brendy in mis-reading your post.

However still disagree, that's where the foreign influence comes in, take the spain-england game theother day how many times did spain 'get it forward'?. It's a very English trait and why we are rubbish internationally, and why lots of teams struggle in the Premiership is because they don't keep the ball well enough. If you keep trying that long pass and giving it away, then don't see the ball for 2-3mins a time, the only people you are tiring out is yourselves. Spain grinded England down in that game, technically superior and better with the ball, that's the same philosphy that Swansea use. Personally quite the opposite of 'boring' I saw it as a very impressive way fpr a 2nd division side to play it. Can expect it from top players but to get ladsthat wereplaying in League 2 not so long ago doing that to top international players and making them chase it around thepark was really quite something.

no probs!

i still disagree though
i find continental style football dull and uninspiring usually
whther its "better" technically or tactically makes no difference to me
im entertained by fast flowing, blood and guts football.
what can i say.

though i would kill for a bit of that class and confidence on the ball, ill grant you.

[Snowball]

Agreed on the effective/winning football side of things, just pointing out the REAL FACTS for those who are looking at the 2 wins in 14 or whatever it was you two were quoting.

The one thing I would say is that I've always believed that the best way to suceed is by playing 'better' football that is harder to perfect as it in turn becomes harder counter. We've been very effective for most of this season but I think our results have flattered our performances many times this season (as they probably have for many sides) and if we were capable of playing a bit more football like Swansea so we could mix it up with our more functional and direct approach we'd be a better side for it.

GOOD POST! To try to diminish Swansea's run by failing to notice it's 13 undefeated in the league, 16 overall is dumb
and when people ignore the shape of their run, EIGHT draws followed by mostly wins (IOW they are getting better)
is just manipulative.

When they were drawing games EVEN THEN the pundits were saying they were the best footballing side
in the league but lacked the killer instinct. At the moments Scotland is doing well so the draws have become wins

4-5-1 is great for retaining possession and looking pretty... we have seen side have over 50% possession but
few shots on goal against us. Interesting if Scotland gets an injury

I love Reading FC and want us to win this championship, go up and stay up
but you are absolutely right when you say many of out results this season
(at home) have flattered us... maybe our results now are a bit more realistic?

Having said that the teams we've played recently have been tough to beat (I mean good sides on good runs)

[Royal With Cheese]

I found them frustrating. They passed it well and attacked quickly quite a lot. But there were plenty of times they had a chance to try putting a good ball into the box or switching play with a longer ball which they ignored.

Some of their set pieces were totally foolish IMO. start a passing move when you can get a good ball in the box?

overall thoroughly enjoyable game to watch though.

That was my interpretation of the game also.

This was not a wankfest of football as ITV would have you believe. You need not only to pass the ball but to know when to attack. Swansea were far too cautious against a team that haven't won in the prem away all season, lost to Burnley in the Carling Cup and whose only victories away from home in any competitions have been at Sheffiled Wednesday and Kettering.

It was a good game. Swansea played good football. That was it.

[Archie's penalty]

Do United play a continental style then? Imo they play a mixture of the way we play and the way Swansea play - that's what makes them so good.

I really hope our form picks up in the next couple of games. I'm excited about Nhunt coming back in and maybe seeing Tabb...

[Sarah Star]

If we played with both wide players staying wide - i.e. standing on the touchline, the way the Swansea players were - then we would have to play 4-5-1 or we'd get overrun in midfield.
I think our defeat at Swansea was largely down to tactics. Once Marek came on and we played a sort of 4-5-1, we did start to compete.

One other thing. Swansea were great to watch against Fulhman and were unlucky not to win. But they didn't win, and still may end up going out.

I thought that was the way we played and we did get overun in midfield

Shunt in particular tucks in quite often. What was notable about Swansea was that both wide men were right out on the touchline nearly all the time. I don't think you can do that with only 2 in the middle.

If you watch Reading - for instance at goal kicks - If one wide man is on the touch line the man on the other wing will tuck-in

OK, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for that.

[papereyes]

Do United play a continental style then? Imo they play a mixture of the way we play and the way Swansea play - that's what makes them so good.

nearer to us than most would think - except their essentially destructive midfield can turn on the style. United coupled a continental style to some very English attacking (much like the briefly successful Leeds side a few years later).

but its the switch in pace that made them so deadly

I am also slightly disappointed by some of the comments in light of the midweek international football

I'm not convinced that they wouldn't get absolutely ripped to shreds in the premiership, but then people thought we would be.

The way we play sidestepped the Premiership somewhat. Most teams in the Premiership outside of those challenging seem to rely on keeping it tight and then relying on hard work or the one or two individuals to create something. We didn't rely on having the ball as much to create the chances and in Doyle, Kitson and Lita that season, we had the players to finish off the crosses and set pieces. Look also at the team overachieving most this season and see similarities in their use of wingers and defensive midfielders in the centre.

Plus, people really underestimate how good Sidwell was at driving the team forwards and organising.

I thought West Brom would be the team not to struggle but you have to remember that they didn't retain their top scorer from last season and their other striker was the type of target man that gets eaten for breakfast in the Prem (see also Akinbiyi, A). Since bringing in two strikers, they've actually notched up some decent results. That said, they also failed to bring in an 'old head' at defence or central midfield. We had Duberry, belatedly. Wigan, previously, went for Henchoz and de Zeeuw. So it depends a lot on how they strengthen. IMO, that type of signing - a bit of a leader who knows the game and been around a bit - would be the cheapest way to strengthen a promoted team.

At the heart of it, given the financial imbalance, you'd have to expect all three promoted teams to struggle. That any one does should frame the argument in what they're doing right.

[Woodcote Royal]

if we put out a 4-5-1 formation at home (as Swansea did against us) the same people who are moaning about Coppell and "why can't we play like Swansea??" will go ape.

They had an absolute axe man in centre mid (Pratley) who destroyed everything we tried to do - we have no equivilent.

They had 2 stylish midfielders who, with the ball given to them by Pratley, were able to orchestrate attacks at will - we have Marek and ??

They had two genuine wide wingers, who weren't just quick, but had end product, and because we played 4 across the middle we only had the opposite winger trying to mark each of their wingers (and on the day, Kebe went AWOL after the aforementioned Mr Pratley hammered him in the first 5 mins) whilst they were able to double mark both SHunt and Kebe whenever they got the ball.

Finally they have a stirker who is very well suited to the lone striker role in Jason Scotland, who can hold the ball up for support from the wings or from midfield, and who is in fantastic form; we don't have an equivilent striker at this time.

Pratley is out for the season, but even so Swansea will continue to be effective AND pretty; we look grim in comparison because we are up against teams who have sussed that if you double mark our wide players, we are ineffective.

And the big issue is that SSC seems to not have a Plan B.

Personally, I think he needs to mix things up a bit for a few games at least, as I think ALL teams who come to The Mad Stad will flood the midfield and so negate our threats.

Totally agree but I would be delighted to see a 4-5-1 as it would show our manager is actually looking at a plan "B" that has a reasonable chance of success.

However, if we see the same starting 11, formation and bench culminating in another goalless performance on Saturday, alarm bells should be ringing throughout the fan base.

[Percy's Rocket]

I know I am biased but I think this thread is more pertinent than the Coppell/Martinez one. I was not for one moment suggesting replacing Coppell. My point was that SC could OPT for a more footballing approach (and has done in the past ...2005) but nothing as total football as Swansea seem to be aiming for. ii would require a switch of focus back to the Marek type of player but maybe long term we have more chance in the Prem going the Bolton route with hustle and bustle and more direct football investing in big strong players to outmuscle opponents..whatever..SC has to decide what to do (if he is planning to stay on)..this squad playing the way they are now are not good enough to survive in the prem IMO...though they are good enough to go up. If Swansea went up I get the feeling their style might earn them enough points to survive.

[Vision]

Fair points but taking all the hyperbole about Swansea aside, West Brom played in pretty much the same way last season and as things stand its the more combative Hull side and the up and at 'em Stoke that are doing better (albeit marginally).

I know you could say it about most sides including ours but if you took Jason Scotland out of the Swansea side and for example put him in Doncaster Rovers side I wonder whether it would be Sean O'Driscoll rather than Martinez that everyone would be raving about.