Hard to see any progress for the forseeable future

[Schards#2]

Would you accept that you might not best positioned to judge given that I understand you haven't witnessed a kick of it?

I think even from Belfast he can judge whether we are mid table or not.

He's also pretty capable of deciding whether Coppell still has any desire and whether JM's heart is still in it.

He's probably in as good a position to judge as someone who took an entrenched position some months ago and and will cling to it come what may.

What about the suggestion that the season hasn't been dull which, if you took the trouble read a post properly for once, you would see was the point I was replying to?

Clearly, way way to much to ask.

[Sun Tzu]

Would you accept that you might not best positioned to judge given that I understand you haven't witnessed a kick of it?

I think even from Belfast he can judge whether we are mid table or not.

He's also pretty capable of deciding whether Coppell still has any desire and whether JM's heart is still in it.

He's probably in as good a position to judge as someone who took an entrenched position some months ago and and will cling to it come what may.

What about the suggestion that the season hasn't been dull which, if you took the trouble read a post properly for once, you would see was the point I was replying to?

Clearly, way way to much to ask.

The post to which you replied also refered to us being 'mid table'....

You were clearly attempting to repeat you claim that th eonly people entitled to voice an opinion are those who attend games. It's quite possible to judge a season even if you aren't at games. Someone who lives abroad still experiences a season and is quite entitled to state whether in their view it is dull or not. You are being extremely narrow minded in suggesting that your personal situation is the only one which gives a valid perspective.

Bizarrely I do read the posts, your ability to accuse people of not reading is really funny given that you never respond to what is written, only to what you WANT to believe was written....

[winchester_royal]

That's another fallacy that is wearing a bit thin now too! If he WANTED us to lose and be mid-table mediocrity he certainly wouldn't bother to games home and away, let alone buying a fricking season ticket. He WANTS us to do well, as he has for the last 30 odd years. Plank.

Well then perhaps he could stop gloating everytime we lose. Plank indeed.

If it makes you feel better, you keep believing that's true, bless you.

Keep believing what's true?

I can't believe you honestly think you were right all along. Promotion is still in our own hands, all we need is a little shake up of the team, which Coppell has already suggested will happen. Yes we have been poor for the last month, but in that time we still managed to beat top of the table Wolves.

This season has been neither dull or uninspiring; frustrating i'll grant you, but days such as Brizzle away, Brum away, Wolves away and home, Sheff Utd away, are all examples of the magnificent season that it has been so far. We win all our remaining games we go up, remember that.

[Schards#2]

Basically, RWC, the straw you seem to be grasping is that, for a portion of the season, one word of the original post was wrong.
If it gives you comfort, i'm happy for you.

No, I'm merely pointing out that you've changed your mind twice in this thread. It's not a single word. We haven't even started on:

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

I understand where you're coming from and, as I 've always stipulated, have some sympathy with your original post. It's just it's plain, for whatever reason, we are not a mid table championship club and this season has been far from dull. You're just wrong. Sorry Schards, no amount of semantics is going to prove you otherwise.

Going to have to disagree there, it's been the dullest season for several years. As for inspiring.... ...please

Would you accept that you might not best positioned to judge given that I understand you haven't witnessed a kick of it?

Seems to be a highlighted bit there, can anyone see it?

Could they point it out to Behindu, it seems to be outside the scope of his rose tinted blinkers.

[Sun Tzu]

Seems to be a highlighted bit there, can anyone see it?

Could they point it out to Behindu, it seems to be outside the scope of his rose tinted blinkers.

I guess you are just confirming that you haven't read the posts then Schards ?

Thanks for that....

[Schards#2]

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club. IN THE LONGER TERM THIS LOOKS LIKELY TO BE CORRECT

Madejski - clearly, his heart is not in it to the extent it was previously. CORRECT

He would love to sell out but can't find a buyer. CORRECT

He will keep the club sound and stable but has no intention of investing further funds or trying to push the club forwards. CORRECT

Coppell - if the spirit of the championship had survived, he would definately have been the right man for the job,ARGUABLE

but it hasn't. ARGUABLE

The chairman is not fully behind it anymore,CORRECT

many players have left to pursue their own self interest and many still here would like to leave.CORRECT

The golden team has long gone and we have to move on and build a new team.CORRECT

Coppell doesn't, IMHO, have the hunger to do this.ARGUABLE

Whilst not being a member of the carpark squad, I applauded their actions as, at the time it was the right thing to do.CORRECT

Had we known that the spirit of the championship side was already totally dead, in hindsight, we should have let Coppell go and started afresh.ARGUABLE

As for Madejski, there are some on here who would happily see us drift downwards whilst improving/maintaining our balance sheet in the belief that the rest of football will meltdown around us and we will emerge as one of the last men standing.CORRECT

They are rather like people who build nuclear bunkers in their back garden.CORRECT

Much as I admire and appreciete what Madejski has done, I don't see how the club can go forward with him at the helm and would now like to see someone new who wants to move things forward.CORRECT

Can't see either leaving anytime soon CORRECT

so supporting Reading's going to be a whole lot duller CORRECT FOR THE MAJORITY OF GAMES

and uninspiring CORRECT

than in recent years CORRECT

[Schards#2]

Seems to be a highlighted bit there, can anyone see it?

Could they point it out to Behindu, it seems to be outside the scope of his rose tinted blinkers.

I guess you are just confirming that you haven't read the posts then Schards ?

Thanks for that....

It'd probably easier for you to admit you misread the post I was replying to but that's not the David Watts way is it?

Maybe you should go back to just making stuff up that i've said and then arguing against it, you've not tried that for a week or so.

[Sun Tzu]

Seems to be a highlighted bit there, can anyone see it?

Could they point it out to Behindu, it seems to be outside the scope of his rose tinted blinkers.

I guess you are just confirming that you haven't read the posts then Schards ?

Thanks for that....

It'd probably easier for you to admit you misread the post I was replying to but that's not the David Watts way is it?

Maybe you should go back to just making stuff up that i've said and then arguing against it, you've not tried that for a week or so.

Usual Schards nonsense when he hasn't got a sensible comment to make.....how can I 'misread' a post that I correctly commented on !

Do you accept the point that your attempt to exclude anyone who doesn't fit your narrow view of who is entitled to an opinion is wrong and insulting to many long standing and knowledgeable fans ?

[Sun Tzu]

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club. IN THE LONGER TERM THIS LOOKS LIKELY TO BE CORRECT

No, we have no idea what the 'longer' term holds and as things stand in the short term we are in a very strong position to be playing Premiership football next season

Madejski - clearly, his heart is not in it to the extent it was previously. CORRECT

CORRECT
Utterly dependent on picking a particular point in time. His stance now is no different to what it has been for years

He would love to sell out but can't find a buyer. CORRECT

Again, a position that has been unchanged for a decade or more...

He will keep the club sound and stable but has no intention of investing further funds or trying to push the club forwards. CORRECT

He's not written out cheques for players for a number of seasons (if that is what you mean by investment. No indication that Coppell has been restricted in the transfer market by funds to any degree. JM has stated his intention to get us back in the Prem which suggests he does have a desire to move us forward.

The chairman is not fully behind it anymore,CORRECT

ARGUABLE at best....

many players have left to pursue their own self interest and many still here would like to leaveCORRECT

INCORRECT, 3 players left. Probably a typical turnover at a club in any summer and only one (perhaps) was really a loss and even then his current form may suggest otherwise. One player has expressed a desire to move , but not to the degree of placing a transfer request

The golden team has long gone and we have to move on and build a new team.CORRECT

A truism rather than a point to argue

Coppell doesn't, IMHO, have the hunger to do this.ARGUABLE

As it is stated as your opinion to say it is 'arguable' suggests you don't know... If Coppell doesn;t have the hunger he's gone a long way to build a new team....

Had we known that the spirit of the championship side was already totally dead, in hindsight, we should have let Coppell go and started afresh.ARGUABLE

This team is not at the same stage of development as the 05-06 team. We have shown plenty of character. Comprehensive wins at Wolves, Birmingham and Bristol bear testament to that....

As for Madejski, there are some on here who would happily see us drift downwards whilst improving/maintaining our balance sheet in the belief that the rest of football will meltdown around us and we will emerge as one of the last men standing.CORRECT

Obscure personal dig at someone, can't see why making sure the club is financially sound is a bad thing. The football world is certainly not going to get any healthier financially

They are rather like people who build nuclear bunkers in their back garden.CORRECT

Personal comment, not really of relevance

Much as I admire and appreciete what Madejski has done, I don't see how the club can go forward with him at the helm and would now like to see someone new who wants to move things forward.CORRECT

Again, pure personal comment and given we are not a mid table club and JM is still in charge you'd say it was WRONG

Can't see either leaving anytime soon CORRECT

Have you not said you expect Coppell to leave at the end of this season ?

so supporting Reading's going to be a whole lot duller CORRECT FOR THE MAJORITY OF GAMES

Certainly arguable when compared to last season, the two seasons before that set a benchmark that is probably unrepeatable so 'failing' to live up to it would be no disgrace and no reason for negativity.

and uninspiring CORRECT

Not sure what is meant by this to be honest. Is football supposed to be 'inspiring ' ?

than in recent years CORRECT

Not sure how that collection of words can be 'correct' or otherwise....

[Schards#2]

FAO SUN TZU ONLY - VERY BORING POST, NO ONE ELSE BOTHER READING

It's quite simple, RWC made a post in which he said, among plenty of other stuff that the season had been "far from dull". Unsurpringly, I disagreed with this so quoted the post and highlighted the words "this season has been far from dull" and put them in large text, thereby making it clear to everyone reading that this was the part I was responding to.

I then replied "Going to have to disagree there, it's been the dullest season for several years. As for inspiring.... ...please
Would you accept that you might not best positioned to judge given that I understand you haven't witnessed a kick of it?"

Your reply to that was "I think even from Belfast he can judge whether we are mid table or not.

He's also pretty capable of deciding whether Coppell still has any desire and whether JM's heart is still in it.

He's probably in as good a position to judge as someone who took an entrenched position some months ago and and will cling to it come what may."

All of which is entirely irrelevant as it was clear I was addressing the "this season has been far from dull" comment.

I know this, everyone knows it and worst of all, you know it. But, as you have in several other threads, rather than address the point, you choose to try and obscure the issue with rubbish such as your reply. I presume you hope I won't bother taking the time and effort to explain in very simple language something that you already understand perfectly well.

I believe it's known as a Strawn Man Argument, what it is is petty, not remotely clever, very very boring and extremely tiresome. It's bad enough having to explain the patently obvious to those who genuinely don't get without having to waste time with the likes of you who do get but in trying, and failing, to make some sort of debating point, pretend not to. Please don't bother with this again.

[Sun Tzu]

I know this, everyone knows it and worst of all, you know it. But, as you have in several other threads, rather than address the point, you choose to try and obscure the issue with rubbish such as your reply. I presume you hope I won't bother taking the time and effort to explain in very simple language something that you already understand perfectly well.

I believe it's known as a Strawn Man Argument, what it is is petty, not remotely clever, very very boring and extremely tiresome. It's bad enough having to explain the patently obvious to those who genuinely don't get without having to waste time with the likes of you who do get but in trying, and failing, to make some sort of debating point, pretend not to. Please don't bother with this again.

Excellent !

Copied almost word for word from (I believe) Platypus who pointed out that this is your entire methodology !!

Do you not see that other people are perfectly able to assess whether a season is 'dull' irrespective of how they experience it ?

Do you persist in your view that yours is the only valid viewpoint ?

Will you still refuse to have sensible discussions and instead rely on word play, evasion and hectoring to back up your eccentric views ?

[Royal Lady]

That's another fallacy that is wearing a bit thin now too! If he WANTED us to lose and be mid-table mediocrity he certainly wouldn't bother to games home and away, let alone buying a fricking season ticket. He WANTS us to do well, as he has for the last 30 odd years. Plank.

Well then perhaps he could stop gloating everytime we lose. Plank indeed.

FTR he doesn't gloat every time we lose. HTH

[Royal With Cheese]

Going to have to disagree there, it's been the dullest season for several years. As for inspiring.... ...please

Would you accept that you might not best positioned to judge given that I understand you haven't witnessed a kick of it?

Just so that no one is in any doubt I've seen all the full games on Sky which, by your own admission, actually gives me a better view to judge a game and I've been to the game against Wolves. With a young family and living in Belfast I'm not in a position to come over as often as I would like. I've also listened to all the other games on Reading World but will heartily conceed that this is far from ideal for making a cohesive judgement.

I'm still confused. You've already changed your view on wether it's been a dull season TWICE . I have remained constant in my assertion that the season is far from dull. I don't have to be at any games to know that this is the case.

If your criteria for not being dull is the 106 point season then I would suggest you are living in cloud cuckoo land. That was a freak season and will never be repeated. If your criteria for not being dull is just missing out on Europe than, again, that is not going to be a position I feel we will be in for a considerable length of time.

Bearing this in mind, I return to the central theme which is that the season is dull. As it stands we are still in with a good chance of automatic promotion in what looks like a 4 horse race (IF Cardiff win all their games in hand) for promotion. If you think that's dull then I fear supporting Reading is not for you. I can't think of anything more exciting.

As for uninspiring - name me a team in the Championship that has remined consistantly insipiring. Swansea? Not at the start of the season? Burnley? Not at the moment. Cardiff? See Swansea. Birmingham and Wolves? Not exactly pulling up any trees at the moment.

So I'm not prepared to conceed the season, or supporting Reading, is dull at the moment. That's just not true. Uninspiring? I can't remember the last time I went to a football match and was inspired I'm not even sure that's relevant.

I'm still, however, struggling with the following statement:

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

No matter what spin I try an put on this and no matter what the semantics are it's a pretty objective statement. There's no wiggle room. It means what it means. Being as generous as I can, It's looking wrong. Even if we keep our recent bad for up we will more than likely reach the playoffs. That, my friend, is not mid table. I don't even need to be on the same planet as you let alone at a football match for 90 minutes to realise that.

I think it's best if we leave it at that.

[CMRoyal]

That's another fallacy that is wearing a bit thin now too! If he WANTED us to lose and be mid-table mediocrity he certainly wouldn't bother to games home and away, let alone buying a fricking season ticket. He WANTS us to do well, as he has for the last 30 odd years. Plank.

To be fair, on the evidence of his posting habits, a keeness to be seen to be have been right all along does seem to come a very close second.

[PEARCEY]

Going to have to disagree there, it's been the dullest season for several years. As for inspiring.... ...please

Would you accept that you might not best positioned to judge given that I understand you haven't witnessed a kick of it?

Just so that no one is in any doubt I've seen all the full games on Sky which, by your own admission, actually gives me a better view to judge a game and I've been to the game against Wolves. With a young family and living in Belfast I'm not in a position to come over as often as I would like. I've also listened to all the other games on Reading World but will heartily conceed that this is far from ideal for making a cohesive judgement.

I'm still confused. You've already changed your view on wether it's been a dull season TWICE . I have remained constant in my assertion that the season is far from dull. I don't have to be at any games to know that this is the case.

If your criteria for not being dull is the 106 point season then I would suggest you are living in cloud cuckoo land. That was a freak season and will never be repeated. If your criteria for not being dull is just missing out on Europe than, again, that is not going to be a position I feel we will be in for a considerable length of time.

Bearing this in mind, I return to the central theme which is that the season is dull. As it stands we are still in with a good chance of automatic promotion in what looks like a 4 horse race (IF Cardiff win all their games in hand) for promotion. If you think that's dull then I fear supporting Reading is not for you. I can't think of anything more exciting.

As for uninspiring - name me a team in the Championship that has remined consistantly insipiring. Swansea? Not at the start of the season? Burnley? Not at the moment. Cardiff? See Swansea. Birmingham and Wolves? Not exactly pulling up any trees at the moment.

So I'm not prepared to conceed the season, or supporting Reading, is dull at the moment. That's just not true. Uninspiring? I can't remember the last time I went to a football match and was inspired I'm not even sure that's relevant.

I'm still, however, struggling with the following statement:

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

No matter what spin I try an put on this and no matter what the semantics are it's a pretty objective statement. There's no wiggle room. It means what it means. Being as generous as I can, It's looking wrong. Even if we keep our recent bad for up we will more than likely reach the playoffs. That, my friend, is not mid table. I don't even need to be on the same planet as you let alone at a football match for 90 minutes to realise that.

I think it's best if we leave it at that.

Good post sir.

[Schards#2]

Going to have to disagree there, it's been the dullest season for several years. As for inspiring.... ...please

Would you accept that you might not best positioned to judge given that I understand you haven't witnessed a kick of it?

Just so that no one is in any doubt I've seen all the full games on Sky which, by your own admission, actually gives me a better view to judge a game and I've been to the game against Wolves. With a young family and living in Belfast I'm not in a position to come over as often as I would like. I've also listened to all the other games on Reading World but will heartily conceed that this is far from ideal for making a cohesive judgement.

I'm still confused. You've already changed your view on wether it's been a dull season TWICE . I have remained constant in my assertion that the season is far from dull. I don't have to be at any games to know that this is the case.

If your criteria for not being dull is the 106 point season then I would suggest you are living in cloud cuckoo land. That was a freak season and will never be repeated. If your criteria for not being dull is just missing out on Europe than, again, that is not going to be a position I feel we will be in for a considerable length of time.

Bearing this in mind, I return to the central theme which is that the season is dull. As it stands we are still in with a good chance of automatic promotion in what looks like a 4 horse race (IF Cardiff win all their games in hand) for promotion. If you think that's dull then I fear supporting Reading is not for you. I can't think of anything more exciting.

As for uninspiring - name me a team in the Championship that has remined consistantly insipiring. Swansea? Not at the start of the season? Burnley? Not at the moment. Cardiff? See Swansea. Birmingham and Wolves? Not exactly pulling up any trees at the moment.

So I'm not prepared to conceed the season, or supporting Reading, is dull at the moment. That's just not true. Uninspiring? I can't remember the last time I went to a football match and was inspired I'm not even sure that's relevant.

I'm still, however, struggling with the following statement:

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

No matter what spin I try an put on this and no matter what the semantics are it's a pretty objective statement. There's no wiggle room. It means what it means. Being as generous as I can, It's looking wrong. Even if we keep our recent bad for up we will more than likely reach the playoffs. That, my friend, is not mid table. I don't even need to be on the same planet as you let alone at a football match for 90 minutes to realise that.

I think it's best if we leave it at that.

Seeing as you are so interested, obsessed some might say. I would define dull and being bored to death, which I have been for the majority of games this season.

As for uninspiring, we are uninspiring. The fact that no one else is this dross filled division is inspiring does not make us any more inspiring.

When someone predicts what things might be like going forward, I don't think generally, they anticipate what they said things will be like, to be exactly that in every single game. It's a generalisation. In November I accepted that , at that point, it hadn't been dull, (despite your insistance that I have never admitted being wrong about anything, which is it?), in Feb, I can say that the season as a whole has been dull.

As for mid table in the championship, in the long term, that is where we will end up without the investment that has already been ruled out. If we get there via a season of humiliation in the premiership, so be it but without investment that's where we are going.

Finally, I don't care why you don't go to games, I just know that you can't judge what's dull or not unless it's live on TV which the vast majority aren't. But if you don't believe me, take a gander at few other threads.

[Quagmire]

FTR he doesn't gloat every time we lose. HTH

Key word in bold, so you would agree that sometimes after we lose he likes to gloat?

[Schards#2]

FTR he doesn't gloat every time we lose. HTH

Key word in bold, so you would agree that sometimes after we lose he likes to gloat?

Feel free to check out the dates of defeats, check out my posts and demonstrate this.

[Quagmire]

FTR he doesn't gloat every time we lose. HTH

Key word in bold, so you would agree that sometimes after we lose he likes to gloat?

Feel free to check out the dates of defeats, check out my posts and demonstrate this.

I was just quoting your wife, take it up with her.

[brendywendy]

this thread doesnt change much

the constant screeching hurts my ears