When Matejovsky Starts

[cmonurz]

Again Snowball your stats ignore the fact that in a full Premiership season, we don't play those same 10 games again and again. We don't get to play Derby or Birmingham 4 times each, and we do have to play teams like United, Arsenal, and Spurs, who Marek did not feature against.

It is completely wrong to claim that '1.3 points per game' equates to anything over a season when the rest of the season does not mirror those 10 games.

[rg6royal]

He's a quality player but he struggles in centre mid when it's just him and another.

[Snowball]

W 1-0 Boro................... Matejovsky debut - Reading's first win after 8 straight defeats
W 2-0 MAN CITY
L 1-2 Liverpool............ Matejovsky scores a blinder!
W 2-1 BIRMINGHAM
D 0-0 BLACKBURN......... Matejovsky sent off (we lost our next game 0-3 at Newcastle)
L 0-2 Fulham
W 4-0 Derby


Played 7 Won 4 Drew 1 Lost 2 10-5 13 Points from 7 games = 1.86 points per game = a 70 point premiership season (5th) !!!!

A completely irrelevant stat as in a full Premiership season, we don't get to play those 7 teams over and over again, i.e. we don't play Derby or Birmingham or Middlesbrough 5 or 6 times each.

Oh, I didn't know that. Really? We can't pick who we play against? Why not?

I simply converted points per game into a 38 game total for very stupid people. I thought you'd appreciate not having to do the sum, cmonurz.


And LIVERPOOL away, don't forget them, we don't have to play LIVERPOOL (4th) either, or Everton (5th) or Villa 6th)

"Marek's 5 defeats" were 4th, Away, 5th, Away, 6th, Home, and 16th and 17th at home, the killer defeats, but we lost the away matches against both those clubs too (without Marek)

[Snowball]

Again Snowball your stats ignore the fact that in a full Premiership season, we don't play those same 10 games again and again. We don't get to play Derby or Birmingham 4 times each, and we do have to play teams like United, Arsenal, and Spurs, who Marek did not feature against. It is completely wrong to claim that '1.3 points per game' equates to anything over a season when the rest of the season does not mirror those 10 games.

JEEZ you are thick. I told you I did the 38 multiplier for not-very-clever people. (Hi!)

Marek's games DID however include 4th, 5th. 6th, 7th, 9th... five from the top half and five from the bottom

In a season we play 38 matches against an average position of 10.5.

Marek's games were against an average position of 11.6, MARGINALLY easier

04
05
06
07
09
13
16
17
19
20

11.6 average position

[Snowball]

He's a quality player but he struggles in centre mid when it's just him and another.

We get more points when he plays

[cmonurz]

Snowball, people who disagree with the way you use your stats are not 'thick'. Grow up just a tad and find the ability to debate your analyses without the need to resort to name calling.

My point is perfectly valid. You can't excuse it simply as 'a sum used for simple folk' because you were using it as part of your evidence as to how/why Marek would have kept us up. If you want to use stats in such a way, they should be a touch more fool-proof, imho.

[Snowball]

Just for cmonurz

This compares MATCHES AGAINST THE SAME TEAMS

MATEJOVSKY STARTING

1 0 Boro
4 0 Derby
0 0 Blackburn
0 2 Fulham
1 2 Liverpool
2 0 Man City
0 2 Bolton
0 1 Everton
1 2 Villa
2 1 Birmingham


11 10 POSITIVE GD 13 points = 1.3 PER GAME


1 1 Boro
1 0 Derby
2 4 Blackburn
1 3 Fulham
3 1 Liverpool
1 2 Man City
0 3 Bolton
1 0 Everton
1 3 Villa
1 1 Birmingham


12 18 NEGATIVE GD 11 points = 1.1 PER GAME


.2 POINTS PER GAME, NOT MUCH?

OVER JUST THESE TEN GAMES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TWO EXTRA POINTS AND A GOAL DIFFERENCE IMPROVEMENT OF PLUS SEVEN GOALS.

REMIND ME AGAIN, DIDN'T WE GO DOWN ON GOAL DIFFERENCE?

[Snowball]

Snowball, people who disagree with the way you use your stats are not 'thick'. Grow up just a tad and find the ability to debate your analyses without the need to resort to name calling. My point is perfectly valid. You can't excuse it simply as 'a sum used for simple folk' because you were using it as part of your evidence as to how/why Marek would have kept us up. If you want to use stats in such a way, they should be a touch more fool-proof, imho.

You really ARE thick. Do you REALLY believe I don't notice the difference between Manchester United and Derby?

It's a ducking ILLUSTRATION.

Anyway, I have just shown AGAINST THE SAME TEAMS that Marek in the side produced two
more points and a GD of +7 goals. I know exactly what your next retort will be.

[cmonurz]

I think your tone if becoming offensive, actually. If you don't like your stats being questioned, I suggest you don't post them.

My criticism of these stats is perfectly valid.

You are making a claim that Marek starting would have kept us up, based on a sample of games that doesn't even include 9 of the sides in the Premier League. This is not an 'illustration', you are making quite a solid claim. You then try to evidence this claim by comparing those games to the reverse fixtures, which it could be argued are not particularly comparable, being played in a different part of the season, and at a different venue.

How relevant is it, for example, that Marek started in our defeat at Anfield, but not in the 3-1 win at the Madejski? It isn't in the slightest.

Imho, these stats show nothing of any significance to Marek's contribution to this side.

[poohs pure]

I think your tone if becoming offensive, actually. If you don't like your stats being questioned, I suggest you don't post them.

My criticism of these stats is perfectly valid.

You are making a claim that Marek starting would have kept us up, based on a sample of games that doesn't even include 9 of the sides in the Premier League. This is not an 'illustration', you are making quite a solid claim. You then try to evidence this claim by comparing those games to the reverse fixtures, which it could be argued are not particularly comparable, being played in a different part of the season, and at a different venue.

How relevant is it, for example, that Marek started in our defeat at Anfield, but not in the 3-1 win at the Madejski? It isn't in the slightest.

Imho, these stats show nothing of any significance to Marek's contribution to this side.

agree with you totally, marek is an ok player but using stats to show he is some kind of god is utter bollocks. i'd also like to point out that snowball is becoming a cock.

[Scarface]

You can look at stats all your life, the fact is we need to freshen the team up and Marek IMHO deserves a decent run of games now.

[Snowball]

I think your tone if becoming offensive, actually. If you don't like your stats being questioned, I suggest you don't post them.

YOU offend me. You're my personal stalker!

My criticism of these stats is perfectly valid.

It's idiotic. You made a stupid assumption and extrapolated from it. You do it every other reply because you have the subtle and insight of a household brick

You are making a claim that Marek starting would have kept us up, based on a sample of games that doesn't even include 9 of the sides in the Premier League.

I am making the claim that Marek gets us more points and a much better GD, and, as you should now have digested, he did so AGAINST the same ten teams. So that gets rid of your pathetic grabbed-at point. If I posted "It gets dark at night." You would answer, "Not if you switch the lights on." Then, when I say, "ambient light" you'd say "moving the goal posts, eh?"

This is not an 'illustration', you are making quite a solid claim.

It's a random selection of games and we see that he has 4 wins out of ten and 1.3 points per game. Multiplying that by 38 does NOT mean "Snowball believes if Marek Matejovsky had played 38 games Reading would have finished 10th." Nor did I say so.
Most times I have put 49-point-season in quote-marks because it is not meant to precisely mean YES WE WOULD GET 49 points. As I say it's a quick conversion to give an indication. People know that a point a game usually means relegation and 2 points a game is challenging for honours. What many of us DON't know, without doing the sum or illustrating is the average points per game required to finish top half or qualify for Europe, or make the play-offs. To me "49-point season" is much more illustrative than 1.3 points per game

You then try to evidence this claim by comparing those games to the reverse fixtures, which it could be argued are not particularly comparable, being played in a different part of the season, and at a different venue.

I KNEW it. You are just an obstinate auto-responder.

Unlike you I'm fair. I thought, "I know, I'll look at the opposite fixtures and compare them. If Matejovsky "wins" that means something, but maybe, in the same ten games, without Matejovsky they got MORE wins, MORE goals, MORE points.

And of course, if they had, you would not THEN have complained, "Oh they don't bear comparison..."




Look, first you refused to accept the pro-Marek evidence and said, what about the top-three or other teams. I respond with a totally-fair comparison and you manage to pooh-pooh that. You are just digging your heels in, because you're not prepared to say, "Oh, wow, we really DID do better with Marek starting."

How relevant is it, for example, that Marek started in our defeat at Anfield, but not in the 3-1 win at the Madejski? It isn't in the slightest.

Imho, these stats show nothing of any significance to Marek's contribution to this side.

Well, you WOULD say that, wouldn't you?

[Snowball]

[ marek is an ok player but using stats to show he is some kind of god is utter bollocks. i'd also like to point out that snowball is becoming a cock.

err, where does it say in this thread that he's a "God"?

With him playing we lost more than we won. It just happens we were crappier when he didn't play.


And when I showed the comparison for the exact same ten teams all it shows is our end result would have been two points more, and a GD +8 better

That would have taken us to the dizzy heights of SIXTEENTH.

I actually believe we would have got that .2 a game average across the season so would have been about six points better than we finished and with a GD approaching parity

That's 12th, 13th with a GD of -5

If that's calling someone God or Messiah, then so be it.

[newbury royal]

cmonurz wrote:
I think your tone if becoming offensive, actually. If you don't like your stats being questioned, I suggest you don't post them.

My criticism of these stats is perfectly valid.

You are making a claim that Marek starting would have kept us up, based on a sample of games that doesn't even include 9 of the sides in the Premier League. This is not an 'illustration', you are making quite a solid claim. You then try to evidence this claim by comparing those games to the reverse fixtures, which it could be argued are not particularly comparable, being played in a different part of the season, and at a different venue.

How relevant is it, for example, that Marek started in our defeat at Anfield, but not in the 3-1 win at the Madejski? It isn't in the slightest.

Imho, these stats show nothing of any significance to Marek's contribution to this side.

agree with you totally, marek is an ok player but using stats to show he is some kind of god is utter bollocks. i'd also like to point out that snowball is becoming a cock..

+1. A perfectly reasonable and logical response from cmonurz. A little embarrassing to then see Snowball calling HIM thick...

[Snowball]

I think your tone if becoming offensive, actually. If you don't like your stats being questioned, I suggest you don't post them.

I LOVE having my stats questioned, especially where I've made errors of transcription

What p!sses me off about your complaints in particular
is they are usually based on a stupid assumption you have made.


Let me be clear and use short, small words.


I think, based on Marek's starts, that if Marek had played five games more we would have got one point more and a better GD and stayed up.

I think, if Marek had played ten games more we would have got TWO points more and an even better GD and stayed up.

I think, if Marek had played 37 games we would have got three points more, and had a GD of about -5 or so

We would not have qualified for the Champion's League, or The Eufa Cup, or got to Wembley.

[poohs pure]

[ marek is an ok player but using stats to show he is some kind of god is utter bollocks. i'd also like to point out that snowball is becoming a cock.

err, where does it say in this thread that he's a "God"?

With him playing we lost more than we won. It just happens we were crappier when he didn't play.


And when I showed the comparison for the exact same ten teams all it shows is our end result would have been two points more, and a GD +8 better

That would have taken us to the dizzy heights of SIXTEENTH.

I actually believe we would have got that .2 a game average across the season so would have been about six points better than we finished and with a GD approaching parity

That's 12th, 13th with a GD of -5

If that's calling someone God or Messiah, then so be it.

go away, back to where you were before you found this forum.

[AlexY25]

Snowball is a scapegoat of Hob Nob.

[poohs pure]

cmonurz wrote:
I think your tone if becoming offensive, actually. If you don't like your stats being questioned, I suggest you don't post them.

My criticism of these stats is perfectly valid.

You are making a claim that Marek starting would have kept us up, based on a sample of games that doesn't even include 9 of the sides in the Premier League. This is not an 'illustration', you are making quite a solid claim. You then try to evidence this claim by comparing those games to the reverse fixtures, which it could be argued are not particularly comparable, being played in a different part of the season, and at a different venue.

How relevant is it, for example, that Marek started in our defeat at Anfield, but not in the 3-1 win at the Madejski? It isn't in the slightest.

Imho, these stats show nothing of any significance to Marek's contribution to this side.

agree with you totally, marek is an ok player but using stats to show he is some kind of god is utter bollocks. i'd also like to point out that snowball is becoming a cock..

+1. A perfectly reasonable and logical response from cmonurz. A little embarrassing to then see Snowball calling HIM thick...

is it just me or is snowball giving us newburyites a bad name

[poohs pure]

Snowball is a scapegoat of Hob Nob.

scapegoat for what?

[Snowball]

is it just me or is snowball giving us newburyites a bad name

Oh I'm not REALLY from Newbury. I'm from Swindon.... (or not)