And coming up on the rails.....

[CMRoyal]

Exciting for the neutral just looking at results perhaps.

For those who've had to sit through the performances (for us Wolves and Brum I expect) and had to watch their club throw away a commanding lead over the rest of the division it's been nothing of the sort.

Well, I'm not a neutral. I've been to 30 or so matches this season, many of which we've won.

And I don't recall us ever having a commanding lead over the rest of the division. We briefly hit the heady heights of second place, but were never comfortable there and to all intents and purposes we've been just out of reach of the auto places pretty much all season. I'm not denying that latterly the form has been awful and the matches poor, but overall I've enjoyed us being in the mix all season. And there are a good 6-9 more games left to get excited about.

[Vision]

There is no outstanding team in this division. Isn't it simply the case that there are about 8 or 9 sides that are on a par with each other and this is reflected in the amount of points that it will take for auto promotion.

At varying times of the season.......

Wolves
Us
Burnley
Cardiff
Swansea
Bristol City
Sheff Utd

.......have all put runs together that suggest that at their best they could/should win the League. If you add Birmingham who on paper comfortably have the best team/squad then the reality is that we are just one of that group.

[brendywendy]

spot on

and thats a reality im very happy and comfortable with-and something we seem to be producing regularly in this division over the last few years-which has to be a good thing, and improvement on our position pre 05/06

[Woodcote Royal]

There is no outstanding team in this division. Isn't it simply the case that there are about 8 or 9 sides that are on a par with each other and this is reflected in the amount of points that it will take for auto promotion.

At varying times of the season.......

Wolves
Us
Burnley
Cardiff
Swansea
Bristol City
Sheff Utd

.......have all put runs together that suggest that at their best they could/should win the League. If you add Birmingham who on paper comfortably have the best team/squad then the reality is that we are just one of that group.

Mostly agree.

However, two years ago we finished 8th in the Premiership and now, following a relegation that should never have happened we are, at best, on a par with numerous Championship clubs who have assembled their teams on a fraction of the resources at our disposal.

Furthermore, having won just 4 of our last 16 matches, we only hold our current position in the table thanks to performances back in the autumn when the likes of Hunt were playing well and Karacan hadn't disappeared into thin air.

The reality is that clubs like Cardiff are "coming up on the rails" simply because they are now a better side than us...................................which is why some of us see the last 2 seasons as ones of massive under achievement.

In some ways I envy those who can derive some form of excitement from our demise as a force in this division but, like you, I'm looking forward to next season.

In fact, I simply can't wait

[brendywendy]

jeeeeesus

id stop going if i were you.....

[Woodcote Royal]

The alternative would be to take some of whatever creates the little bubble that is protecting you from current reality...................................

[CMRoyal]

Karacan appears to have gained almost mythical status for some people since we last saw this hugely promising but intermittantly effective prospect in the team. There was a point this season where we won 5 games on the trot in the midst of a nine-game unbeaten run. Jem had nowt to do with that run, so how has his omission become so key to our decline?

[Vision]

There is no outstanding team in this division. Isn't it simply the case that there are about 8 or 9 sides that are on a par with each other and this is reflected in the amount of points that it will take for auto promotion.

At varying times of the season.......

Wolves
Us
Burnley
Cardiff
Swansea
Bristol City
Sheff Utd

.......have all put runs together that suggest that at their best they could/should win the League. If you add Birmingham who on paper comfortably have the best team/squad then the reality is that we are just one of that group.

Mostly agree.

However, two years ago we finished 8th in the Premiership and now, following a relegation that should never have happened we are, at best, on a par with numerous Championship clubs who have assembled their teams on a fraction of the resources at our disposal.

And 2 years before that we finished 7th in this division.

Clubs have peaks and troughs and transitional periods through their lifetimes. Unless you've got untold wealth and the will to use it its highly unlikely that clubs the size of ours are going to spend all their days in the top league of English football getting better and better and replacing the best players in their history with better calibre players and instantly getting success. Like it or not we're not a side that goes out and purchases instant replacements. We tend to make players rather than buy them so for us those transitional periods are more likely to take a little longer than most.
I'm not saying relegation was inevitable because it wasn't but a downturn in our results certainly was once that golden team got older, moved on or disappeared up their own backsides.

As I've said before we're clearly not going to agree on this but i simply don't see the high probability that at worst we'll be in the play-offs as a reason for the mass depression which seems to be afflicting most on here. .

It's no skin off my nose to be fair.I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing what the run-in brings.

[URZZZZZZZZ]

Good...now we have a bit of pressure we might show what we are capable of

When has that ever happened before??

[Woodcote Royal]

Karacan appears to have gained almost mythical status for some people since we last saw this hugely promising but intermittantly effective prospect in the team. There was a point this season where we won 5 games on the trot in the midst of a nine-game unbeaten run. Jem had nowt to do with that run, so how has his omission become so key to our decline?

Oddly enough, because he played well in our best spell of the season and has at least matched all our other central midfielders in the squad yet, even though we've been cr@p for nearly all of this year he is nowhwre to be seen.....................other than that.....................not a lot.

[brendywendy]

The alternative would be to take some of whatever creates the little bubble that is protecting you from current reality...................................

it can only help!

[CMRoyal]

Karacan appears to have gained almost mythical status for some people since we last saw this hugely promising but intermittantly effective prospect in the team. There was a point this season where we won 5 games on the trot in the midst of a nine-game unbeaten run. Jem had nowt to do with that run, so how has his omission become so key to our decline?

Oddly enough, because he played well in our best spell of the season and has at least matched all our other central midfielders in the squad yet, even though we've been cr@p for nearly all of this year he is nowhwre to be seen.....................other than that.....................not a lot.

Well, it's all about opinions and I don't think he played during our best period - the nine game unbeaten sequence from the draw at Cardiff through to the win against Watford - but when he did play he looked very good in places but only fleetingly, and certainly far from consistently, as good as Harper or Cisse.

[Tilehurst Mike]

There was always going to be two or three serious challengers to us (and Birmingham and Wolves) emerging from the pack during the last month or so of the season.

What concerns me is why the team and Management seem to be 'freezing' and becoming devoid of ideas come the turn of the year. I really think the january transfer line was an ideal opportunity to get two or three quality players in (if only on loan) but again for whatever reason we missed the boat and signed Tabb and Harding (is he still alive?) who are hardly any better than what we already have. The recent panic loan signings of Kitson and Little smacked of desperation and have hardly been a success to date. I'm fed up of hearing the 'international Break' excuse from Coppell.

Hopefully we can hit a bit of form, starting from tomorrow and realistically mount a serious late surge for promotion either beating Brum on the last day or through the playoffs. Time for the Management and coaches to earn their crust and start to motivate this team!!

[Woodcote Royal]

And 2 years before that we finished 7th in this division.

Clubs have peaks and troughs and transitional periods through their lifetimes. Unless you've got untold wealth and the will to use it its highly unlikely that clubs the size of ours are going to spend all their days in the top league of English football getting better and better and replacing the best players in their history with better calibre players and instantly getting success. Like it or not we're not a side that goes out and purchases instant replacements. We tend to make players rather than buy them so for us those transitional periods are more likely to take a little longer than most.
I'm not saying relegation was inevitable because it wasn't but a downturn in our results certainly was once that golden team got older, moved on or disappeared up their own backsides.

As I've said before we're clearly not going to agree on this but i simply don't see the high probability that at worst we'll be in the play-offs as a reason for the mass depression which seems to be afflicting most on here. .

It's no skin off my nose to be fair.I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing what the run-in brings.

This downturn was largely avoidable and without breaking the bank (which I've never advocated) and most clubs having the same experience would have offloaded it's manager some time ago.

Our promotion side was a wonderful platform on which to build a genuinely exciting future but it has simply been wasted by a man who can't move on from that record breaking team.

He not only refuses to spend is way to success with the funds at his disposal but also refuses to utilise the burgeoning talent developed in our academy, preferring instead to re-sign old has beens from his once great side of three years ago.

This trough is nearly all of Steve Coppell's own making and he should personally thank every fan who is still enjoying the experience.

[rhroyal]

There was always going to be two or three serious challengers to us (and Birmingham and Wolves) emerging from the pack during the last month or so of the season.

I agree with that. People think the top 3 had a massive lead at Christmas. I certainly did. So, to counter your argument I looked at the table after we beat Brum. It was as follows:

1 Wolves 56
2 Reading 49
3 Brum 47
4 Burnley 43
5 Cardiff 40
6 Sheff Utd 37

All teams had played 24 games

Even if the top 3 had kept up half decent form, which we haven't, it wasn't unrealistic to imagine one of the chasing pack hitting form in the New Year and putting real pressure on us. Whilst we could have done better after Xmas, so could all those teams below us and I think there was always a decent chance that it wouldn't be a 2 horse race.

[Mr Optimist]

Pre-season I was saying I would realistically be happy with a play off spot from this season and a shout at getting back first time via this route. I knew we would lose some of the team after relegation and was looking forward to some of the home grown youngsters getting a chance they may not have otherwise done.

All this has happened and a play off berth with another 3 or 4 points will be secured but the way the season has panned out I cannot help but feeI that we had automatic promotion in our hands and have let it slip, a bit like us having safety in our hands last season and game by game in the last 6 weeks seeing it, far too predictably, slip away from us...

Before Christmas after the win at Brum I thought (probably along with most) that we would kick on. Even the other teams around us have slipped up and we have not been good enough to take advantage.

I just hope now that we can get some form back to still have a squeak at top two but more realistically go in to the play offs in relatively good form to stand a chance of winning promotion via the lottery stakes.

[Silver Fox]

spot on

and thats a reality im very happy and comfortable with-and something we seem to be producing regularly in this division over the last few years-which has to be a good thing, and improvement on our position pre 05/06

Brenda, I like you, you're talking sense here, but as I've recently had to explain to Stranded, sensible level-headed opinions aren't welcome here!

BTW the Cardiff win changed what for us exactly?

[Hoop Blah]

Exciting for the neutral just looking at results perhaps.

For those who've had to sit through the performances (for us Wolves and Brum I expect) and had to watch their club throw away a commanding lead over the rest of the division it's been nothing of the sort.

Well, I'm not a neutral. I've been to 30 or so matches this season, many of which we've won.

And I don't recall us ever having a commanding lead over the rest of the division. We briefly hit the heady heights of second place, but were never comfortable there and to all intents and purposes we've been just out of reach of the auto places pretty much all season. I'm not denying that latterly the form has been awful and the matches poor, but overall I've enjoyed us being in the mix all season. And there are a good 6-9 more games left to get excited about.

More so Wolves, but also us and Birmingham, all had a grip of the top three before Christmas.

The points gap might not have shown the grip we had on the division but the general consensus and feeling was that it was a three horse race, albeit one that nobody really wanted to run away with. Any decent continuation of our form would've seen us pull away from the rest of the division after the turn of the year. That's what was commanding about out position.

I agree that as it stands the top 8 are much of a muchness. My point is that with the resources (playing and financial) available to us (and this applies to the top two as well) we should've been able to maintain that form and pull away from the pack a little more over the last 3 months. The fact that we haven't is just as much down to our poor play and results as it is the other teams being our equals.

[Hoop Blah]

BTW the Cardiff win changed what for us exactly?

Probably not a hell of lot in terms of us being able to claim 2nd spot as that should be Birmingham or Wolves, but it certainly closes up the bunch even more for the play-offs and means we have less chance of getting second as Cardiff are just as close to it as us.

If Cardiff had lost it would've meant us only really having to out perform Sheff U to catch Birmingham. Now you can add Cardiff in as well. The liklihood of 3 teams throwing it away is less than it is for 2 teams to throw it away.

[CMRoyal]

Exciting for the neutral just looking at results perhaps.

For those who've had to sit through the performances (for us Wolves and Brum I expect) and had to watch their club throw away a commanding lead over the rest of the division it's been nothing of the sort.

Well, I'm not a neutral. I've been to 30 or so matches this season, many of which we've won.

And I don't recall us ever having a commanding lead over the rest of the division. We briefly hit the heady heights of second place, but were never comfortable there and to all intents and purposes we've been just out of reach of the auto places pretty much all season. I'm not denying that latterly the form has been awful and the matches poor, but overall I've enjoyed us being in the mix all season. And there are a good 6-9 more games left to get excited about.

More so Wolves, but also us and Birmingham, all had a grip of the top three before Christmas.

The points gap might not have shown the grip we had on the division but the general consensus and feeling was that it was a three horse race, albeit one that nobody really wanted to run away with. Any decent continuation of our form would've seen us pull away from the rest of the division after the turn of the year. That's what was commanding about out position.

Yeah, fair point. I'm still deluded enough to believe that our top form has been better than anyone else's best form, so on that basis there has been a faint tinge of unconverted dominance running through most of the season. But I put that view down to my outlook.