Back from the game (an armchair view)

[andrew1957]

I obviously watched a different game to some of you. I actually thought that if it had not been for Tabb and Karacan in the first half the damage could have been even greater. Yes there were some misplaced passes from both of them and there is a question mark over whether you can afford to play two small central midfield players against a physical Birmingham, but they did hold things together. I was watching Karacan carefully and IMO he probably had the most touches of any Reading player in the first half and had a pass success rate of at least 80% - much better than many of his colleagues. Having said this when we were chasing the game it was the correct decision to bring on Matejovsky.

To me I thought it was the complete lack of quality from both Kebe and Hunt that let midfield down. I like Kebe (who was excellent at Norwich) but he was awful today. Hunt gave 100% but had no quality at all.

As for Kitson he may try hard but he drops back so much that he is not in the box to put the ball in the net when a good cross does get put across the box. We should either drop him or Coppell should insist he plays further forward.

The defence were ok but Rosenior was guilty of hoofball. I thought Harding was very good before he was sacrificed.

As for USA - he cost us the game. If we had not gone down 1-0 to such a moment of madness then it would have probably been 0-0 at half time and we may well have gone on to win. As it was we were always chasing the game after the goal.

Matejovsky was excellent when he came on but I would keep in on the bench as he is at his most effective coming on as a fresh pair of legs and exploiting a tiring defence.

[Ian Royal]

Just for the record, my thoughts:

A display that showed promise, but was far too full of silly unforced individual errors that got punished by a well organised team with a few moments of attacking quality.

Hahnemann - 5: seemed to be at fault for the first goal, but it looked like the ball bobbled or took a slight deflection from my position. Not a great showing.
Rosenior - 4: thought he was awful. Poor passing.
Harding - 5: thought he was poor, B'ham winger had the beating of him the entire time he was on the pitch, offered little going forward
Bikey - 6: moments of magic , but positionally poor and some real heart in the mouth moments
Duberry - 6: mostly solid, except for the second goal, which he should be shot for. Passing not great, but not as much hoofing as I've seen from him, certainly no more than Bikey
SHunt - 6: huffed and puffed, filled in at defence ok when asked to. Woeful set pieces, but then he wasn't the only one.
Kebe - 5: Was he even on the pitch? 1 good cross, way too late.
Karacan - 5: that's probably generous, all I remember is some passing on a par with Rosenior and one awful shot early on. At least I think it was a shot.
Tabb - 6: worked hard and had committment and energy. Didn't really do brilliantly
Long - 7: Worked very hard, no real gain, but he's managed to turn my opinion roud with two good showings.
Kitson - 5: tried hard but his hunger and confidence has deserted him. He looks a yard or two slower and a little weaker. Some nice touches and link up play and a nice ball for Marek's goal.

Matejovsky - 7: MOM Wasn't great, but scored and looked inventive. Still stupid wayward passes and about as useful as a flannel in defence.
Doyle - 6: he's skillful he has good control and can shield the ball well, but didn't really do enough

Most of those players could have upped their scores with a few less mistakes or the odd piece of magic. Had we not let in that soft soft goal, I actually think we'd have won. We may even have managed it if Doobs hadn't gifted the 2nd goal to them. After that we had no chance. No way B'ham would conceed 3.

[Ian Royal]

Oh and I dispute Kebe was excellent at Norwich, he was anonymous until we upped a gear and he hugged the touchline getting a lot of space. 2 Great crosses. That's about it.

[strap]

I obviously watched a different game to some of you. I actually thought that if it had not been for Tabb and Karacan in the first half the damage could have been even greater. Yes there were some misplaced passes from both of them and there is a question mark over whether you can afford to play two small central midfield players against a physical Birmingham, but they did hold things together. I was watching Karacan carefully and IMO he probably had the most touches of any Reading player in the first half and had a pass success rate of at least 80% - much better than many of his colleagues. Having said this when we were chasing the game it was the correct decision to bring on Matejovsky.

To me I thought it was the complete lack of quality from both Kebe and Hunt that let midfield down. I like Kebe (who was excellent at Norwich) but he was awful today. Hunt gave 100% but had no quality at all.

As for Kitson he may try hard but he drops back so much that he is not in the box to put the ball in the net when a good cross does get put across the box. We should either drop him or Coppell should insist he plays further forward.

The defence were ok but Rosenior was guilty of hoofball. I thought Harding was very good before he was sacrificed.

As for USA - he cost us the game. If we had not gone down 1-0 to such a moment of madness then it would have probably been 0-0 at half time and we may well have gone on to win. As it was we were always chasing the game after the goal.

Matejovsky was excellent when he came on but I would keep in on the bench as he is at his most effective coming on as a fresh pair of legs and exploiting a tiring defence.

Having read 7 pages of nonsense, what a pleasure to happen upon someone who was at the same game I was at! Wouldn't say Harding was "very good", good defensively but does seem to lose his head a bit once he's crossed the halfway line. So Andrew1957 thank you, and I shall look out for your thoughts next season for some sensible insight into games I can't get to.

Oh, and of course it is gratifying to note that the majority of the HNA community now accept what I have been saying ever since we paid £400,000 for his "services" - Kebe is not a footballer.

That is all.

[Maguire]

I obviously watched a different game to some of you. I actually thought that if it had not been for Tabb and Karacan in the first half the damage could have been even greater. Yes there were some misplaced passes from both of them and there is a question mark over whether you can afford to play two small central midfield players against a physical Birmingham, but they did hold things together

Christ, Karacan was poor in the first half but Tabb wasn't even in the game! Our midfield was the real problem with Hunt and Kebe playing poorly throughout and Tabb and Karacan having shockers in the first half. How anyone could think they were holding the team together, well, I just don't know.

Kebe goes from the sublime to the ridiculous and back again sometimes in the same game, sometimes in the same week, and sometimes in the same month. Sadly this time it was all just ridiculous and the two crosses into the South Stand (one from the right and one from the left) summed up a below par display.

Overall, didn't deserve the autmoatic spot, and that's that.

[seahawk10]

Overall, didn't deserve the autmoatic spot, and that's that.

That is it in a nutshell. In the end, we are going to wind up where we belong. That is the hard f*cking truth. If we don't make it, we weren't good enough. And if we do, then we were. Here is what I saw Birmingham do better than any other team I can remember:
They always tracked back. Those determined feckers were always sticking a foot in interrupting our build up. Their work rate was greater than ours in the end. And once they had the lead it made it that much tougher to come back.

Reading (and the supporters too) are an emotional team. Once that soft-goal went in the collective heads went down and it was uphill after that. Let's just pray we get an early goal against Burnley, that will make all the difference in the world.

[loyalroyal4life]

Oh and I dispute Kebe was excellent at Norwich, he was anonymous until we upped a gear and he hugged the touchline getting a lot of space. 2 Great crosses. That's about it.

2 great crosses that won us the match which had he reproduced on sunday would of resulted in us being promoted

[marysiaska]

I was disappointed with result especially as Sheff U drew....but what's done is done....let's just support our team!!!!! stop all this negativity!!!!

[Rex]

Never.

[Nick Shorey my Lord!]

As Siralan says, a total shambles.

We didn't turn up at all and made it very easy for Birmingham in the end. The central pairing of Jem and Jay was a poor decision when you consider the brutal stength of Birmingams midfield. Time and time again they were out muscled, through no real fault of their own; they are lightweight, anyone with some force would run them down.

Hunt was completely clueless. He looked very much like a man who didn't want to be there. Gone were his attacking runs and instead he kept choosing to stop and look for a pass inside that never was. When he did cross them in, almost evey one didn't beat the first man.

In the programme notes Coppell mentioned how they didn't try anything new on the training field that week. Well, that game proved that was the case. There was no inspiration, no creativity. Kitson had to go deep just to get the ball. He was the best player on the pitch.

Unless we score 3 or 4 up at Burnley then we don't have a chance I'm afraid.

[Hoop Blah]

Mooney's not played, Tabb's yet to prove himself and looks very average and Armstrong's nowhere near as good as Shorey although he's a reasonable Championship full back.

Mooney has played

Tabb has proved himself

Armstrong has been every bit as good as premiership misfit Shorey.

Other than that, spot on.

Surely the point is that these players are not looking like being the next generation of players capable taking Reading forward. If they were then it's quite likely they would've been involved a lot more than they have been.

Mooney has played? He's made two substitute appearances in the cup! I don't call that playing and although he has managed to score a couple if he was really the man capable of filling the boots of Kitson, Doyle and Lita next season then don't you think he would've got a look in at some point this season?

As for Tabb, he hasn't proved anything yet. He took a long time to come into the side and has had a couple of decent performances in the midfield against some of the weaker sides in the division. He looked a bit out of his depth on Sunday and when he's played on the wing he's looked even worse. He's an average Championship midfielder at best, not the driving force for a rebuilt team pushing for promotion. Compare Sidwell in 2004 to Tabb in the last few weeks and there is a world of difference. Tabb may prove to be a decent addition to add some depth to the squad, but that's about it.

Finally Armstrong...he's had a very good season, and was rightly voted player of the year, but he is miles away from being as good as Shorey was for us. Better than Shorey was for lots of last season and probably would've been this year yes, but to say he's as good as Shorey is ludicrous!

We do need to revuild this squad, but we need to rebuild it with the standards set by Pardew and Coppell's early years not the dross and levels of performance we've seen over the last 18 months.

[Tilehurst Mike]

Very disappointing performance at home AGAIN and outmuscled by a fairly average Birmingham team who seemed more up for it on the day.Spoke to a few of their fans after the game--seemed a decent lot but couldn't quite believe how thay had been promoted as they said some of their performances have been woeful. Just sums up really how poor this league has been this season

The loan signings oF Kitson and Little haven't worked out and Kitson did little to suggest he is worth retaining even if by some miracle we do win the play offs.

Final comment relates to the pitch. Why couldn't the ground staff get it like that after xmas??

[Hoop Blah]

Final comment relates to the pitch. Why couldn't the ground staff get it like that after xmas??

Did you miss the weather we had? The pitch took a hammering and it suffered.

The players should've been able to cope with it though but they obviously got it into their heads that it was a problem. The only problem was in their collective head!

[Mr Angry]

Disappointed with the result on Sunday, but genuinely not surprised, so didn't let it upset my weekend!

We didn't lose out on promotion because we lost on Sunday, but because of all the soft points dropped to bottom third teams throughout the season (but especially from Xmas onwards) with the crowning glory being 2 points out of 12 from Southampton and Charlton.

The truth is that we just aren't good enough at the moment, and even if we do win the play-offs, radical work will be needed on the team next season - and this might not be a bad thing.

I believe it is time to lay the 2006 side to rest; I can see SHunt, Doyle, Marcus, and Harper all going, with Ivar, Bikey and Bryn also moving on, and Murtz retiring. (Little and Kitson will go back to their respective clubs).

BUT - we have some great young players coming through; Julian Kelly on the right, Pearce in the centre; Jem in the middle, Henry on the right, Church and Robson-Kanu giving options up front.

Its the circle of life folks!!

[Millsy]

Mooney's not played, Tabb's yet to prove himself and looks very average and Armstrong's nowhere near as good as Shorey although he's a reasonable Championship full back.

Mooney has played

Tabb has proved himself

Armstrong has been every bit as good as premiership misfit Shorey.

Other than that, spot on.

Surely the point is that these players are not looking like being the next generation of players capable taking Reading forward. If they were then it's quite likely they would've been involved a lot more than they have been.

Mooney has played? He's made two substitute appearances in the cup! I don't call that playing and although he has managed to score a couple if he was really the man capable of filling the boots of Kitson, Doyle and Lita next season then don't you think he would've got a look in at some point this season?

As for Tabb, he hasn't proved anything yet. He took a long time to come into the side and has had a couple of decent performances in the midfield against some of the weaker sides in the division. He looked a bit out of his depth on Sunday and when he's played on the wing he's looked even worse. He's an average Championship midfielder at best, not the driving force for a rebuilt team pushing for promotion. Compare Sidwell in 2004 to Tabb in the last few weeks and there is a world of difference. Tabb may prove to be a decent addition to add some depth to the squad, but that's about it.

Finally Armstrong...he's had a very good season, and was rightly voted player of the year, but he is miles away from being as good as Shorey was for us. Better than Shorey was for lots of last season and probably would've been this year yes, but to say he's as good as Shorey is ludicrous!

We do need to revuild this squad, but we need to rebuild it with the standards set by Pardew and Coppell's early years not the dross and levels of performance we've seen over the last 18 months.

Totally.

Every team has its time and after that needs to be rebuilt. Unfortunately for us going up meant bigger clubs stole our best, coming down meant more players leaving and this acceleration is squad change has caused a bit of a problem. We need some stability in order to rebuild

We could go for the lottery of 135 years of trying out different managers but luckily we have with us arguably the best Championship squad builder in history. Obviously to expect him to do it amidst the turbulence of promotion/relagation and players being siphoned off is brainless. In fact it's shocking that he's managed to keep things together and make us finish 4th and 2 goals away from finishing 2nd!

[kieran]

but the life seems to have been sucked out of the club, and it's probably because the fans don't see the players trying hard enough.

I think thats probably because half the fans are not really Reading fans. They come along for the ride. Most the saeason ticket holders I speak to are not that bothered.

[brendywendy]

booooooooooooooo

[Hoop Blah]

Totally.

Every team has its time and after that needs to be rebuilt. Unfortunately for us going up meant bigger clubs stole our best, coming down meant more players leaving and this acceleration is squad change has caused a bit of a problem. We need some stability in order to rebuild

We could go for the lottery of 135 years of trying out different managers but luckily we have with us arguably the best Championship squad builder in history. Obviously to expect him to do it amidst the turbulence of promotion/relagation and players being siphoned off is brainless. In fact it's shocking that he's managed to keep things together and make us finish 4th and 2 goals away from finishing 2nd!

The man at the top has to have the heart and desire to want to do it though, and the noises coming from Coppell over the last 12 months or so hint at him not being up for the fight. He has also recognised himself that he's always had problems pulling a team apart and starting again.

I think he should, and will, go at the end of this season. The only reason I can think for him staying on is that the side will fall apart on it's own if we stay down and so then maybe he'd be in a good position to start again. Even if we lose the likes of Hunt and Doyle, I think he'll still have the emotional ties to some of the other players who've let him down and so I just can't see past a fresh start being required.

As you say, teams have a time and then need rebuilding. The same can often be said of managers too....

[Sun Tzu]

Mooney has played? He's made two substitute appearances in the cup! I don't call that playing .

Are you discounting his games and goals for Norwich ?

As for Tabb, he hasn't proved anything yet. .

He didn't come to us with no background. Players come with a history and have usually already proved something. Tabb came with a high class reputation, I agree that he also needs to become a consistent first teamer but let's not remove his past.

Finally Armstrong...he's had a very good season, and was rightly voted player of the year, but he is miles away from being as good as Shorey was for us. Better than Shorey was for lots of last season and probably would've been this year yes, but to say he's as good as Shorey is ludicrous!.

It's hard to compare. Shorey had the luxury of playing in a dominant side and was pretty lightly tested defensively for much of the time. Armstrong has not had the opportunity to rampage forward but has been very good defensively. I'd probably take Armstrong as a defender but Shorey as an attacking force.

We do need to revuild this squad, but we need to rebuild it with the standards set by Pardew and Coppell's early years not the dross and levels of performance we've seen over the last 18 months.

Pardew served up plenty of dross !!

[Hoop Blah]

Of course Pardew served up a fair bit of dross in his time, most managers do, but his last season and a bit and then the first few seasons of Coppell's time are the standards we've set ourselves. That's what we are aiming for.

In reply to your other points....

Mooney - I haven't discounted his games and goals at Norwich but they highlight exactly his problem, he, like Lita, has made a limited contribution to a relegated team but were not deemed good enough to be involved in our set up even at times when the only fit alternative was Doyle and Long.

Tabb - I'm not overlooking Tabbs previous history either. He has knocked around the lower Championship and lower leagues for a few years without ever really looking likely to push on. He's now mid 20's and has probably got as high as he's ever going to be. He was popular at Coventry and one of the better players in a team that finished just clear of relegation in his two full seasons with them. Although that doesn't make him a bad player, I think it shows where his natural level is.

Armstrong - I don't think it's hard to compare as I think it's pretty obvious Shorey is by far the better player. Armstrong isn't far behind as a defender (I still think that despite his lack of height and pace - not sure Armstrong is any quicker though - Shorey was a better defender as he's reading of the game was excellent and he could win the ball without the need for the more basic defending abilities that Armstrong shows) but going forward he's half the player Shorey was. Our ability on the ball allowed us to be so dominant and Shorey was a massive part of that, as was Murty on the other flank.