Are we actually that far away from another great team?

handbags_harris
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Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by handbags_harris » 05 May 2009 18:57

Theoretical thread, one to ponder, I think, if we stay down. Just thinking about a number of factors over the past 46 games has made me wonder if we're really that far away from another Championship winning team. In my opinion, as individual units we don't appear to be that far away. In that I mean the following:

1) Goalkeeping - no problems from me in this department. Hahnemann still has what it takes to play at this level, although his error on Sunday was almost unforgivable. He has a more than adequate understudy in Federici, and we have other young goalkeepers behind him in Andersen and Hamer, the latter of which has shown he can hack it at League 2 level. Whether he can progress from there remains to be seen.

2) We have a relatively solid defence - we conceded only 40 goals this season, which is 2nd only to Birmingham and Sheffield United. A sound defensive footing is something Coppell teams are based on, so I do not expect this statistic to change a great deal if the current managerial incumbent stays. Some of the defensive players may not be the best with the ball at their feet, but their defensive abilities are, on the whole, pretty sound. Our full backs need to have a bit more nous about them, and more of an understanding with the wingers. Shorey/Convey and Murty/Little had this, and I'm yet to see a Reading foursome with such an inside-out knowledge of each others game. In that aspect, Rosenior and Armstrong really need to up their games.

3) We have some very good strikers, an attacking force that most teams in the Championship would pay a lot of money for - Kevin Doyle, we know, can score goals. He averages 1 in every 3 games, although his goals over the past 3 years have come in fits and spurts. Noel Hunt has shown he can stick a chance away, and for a shortish striker is phenomenal in the air. Shane Long has 9 goals this term, by far and away his best return in professional football and could easily go on and have a 20+ season in this division. Despite the lack of goals recently, we still ended up with the 2nd best goalscoring record in the division behind Wolves. Taking chances is not necessarily a problem with the current team.

4) Here's the main aspect of the debate in my opinion - the midfield.

a) Our central midfield pairing has been chopped and changed throughout the season. Whatever midfield pairing we have had has big flaws, be it vulnerability to a counter attack (Gunnarsson/Matejovsky), a failure to dominate and dictate a game (any midfield with Harper in it), a failure to be able to last 90 minutes (any pairing with Gunnarsson in it), a lack of muscle and height (Tabb/Karacan), a lack of creativity (Cisse/Harper). The analysis could be endless, but with the central midfield players we have, I believe a settled pairing is capable of dominating a game whatever formation they come up against, and my own personal preference would be Matejovsky and Karacan, the latter who I believe could grow to be a homegrown replacement for Steve Sidwell given an opportunity. However, the midfield pairing should be able to defend well (with Matejovsky in the team this aspect would fall on the shoulders of his partner) and assist the wingers in creating chances, or opening up space for them to play.

b) Our wingers are massively overrated and inconsistent, despite notching up far and away the most assists for any team in the division. Given wingers with more ability to create something when they are constantly marked throughout a game and denied space, we would have created more chances in the 2nd half of the season. Hunt and Kebe both shown that they are not up to this job, and therefore need to be replaced ASAP. To carry on from the strikers, creating chances has suddenly become a big problem with this team and to me it is clear that the wingers have been given special treatment by opposition tacticians. If you deny Hunt and Kebe space to play by pushing them up the field or doubling up on them, you seriously handicap Reading.

I think, looking back at the 46 games I've seen this season, the wingers should be replaced as a matter of urgency, and the ageing squad players should be gradually replaced over the next 12 months. Some, such as Gunnarsson, may be good enough to fill a place on the bench or as an emergency starter over the next season, but will need to be replaced as a secondary priority. I'd be happy for the ageing defensive players to stay if we stay in the Championship, they're more than adequate. The attack needs no tinkering because it just oozes goals given the chances (and if Doyle in particular decides to stay).

Rip that to shreds if you can be arsed to read it :twisted:

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moo
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by moo » 05 May 2009 19:01

The MVP Can someone please summarize in a sentence what he's trying to say? Not I chance I can be bothered to read all of that.


Great team, shit midfield.

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by zummerset » 05 May 2009 19:03

yes we are HTH

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by RobRoyal » 05 May 2009 19:11

In short: agreed.

This year's problem is that Coppell's Reading teams have always, will always, rely heavily on quality on the wings. That's Coppellfootball. It's brilliant when you have Convey and peak-Little, pretty good when you have motivated SHunt and Seol-KiHyeon/ Little, and wretched when you have disenfranchised SHunt and Kebe. I believe we have comfortably the best front-line in the division (Lita, for Gawd's sake, would walk into 3/4 of the division's 1st 11), but this year they haven't got the service.

Lack of productivity in central midfield can also be blamed to a certain extent, but I don't believe we've ever had a hell of a lot there, even with Sidwell in the side.

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by SLAMMED » 05 May 2009 19:11

Our midfield isn't shit. Kebe will mature as a player, Matejovski is an awesome talent that the rest of our team need to learn to work with, and although mostpeople would disagree, Hunt can be a very good player if he puts his mind to it, but e's been lacking in confidence all season and will probably leave us before we get a chance to see him at his best again.


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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by rhroyal » 05 May 2009 19:22

I'll be shot for my next comment.

As individual players the class of 05/06 weren't that much better than our current lot. Sidwell, Little and Shorey maybe. However, the understanding, toughness and togetherness of the team brought the best out of every player week on week. We can't get any better than we are now by signing big names, we have to get all the mental attributes that that team had back and that'll bring consistency from the team. If you disagree, how well have Kitson, Little, Sonko and Shorey done since leaving Reading? Not that well. It was a special team with players who really weren't that special themselves. It takes a long time to build that.

I think if we stay down and we will lose Doyle, SHunt, possibly Harper, maybe Marek and Bikey. We won't re-sign Little and Kitson. I think we'll have the core of a team for the next era though. Tabb, NHunt, Long (at last), Armstrong, Karacan, Pearce, Rosenior, Mooney?, Fedders and maybe Henry will graduate from the academy. I'd say Cisse too, he's had a good season. I think Kebe can grow as a player over time too. There are considerable gaps in that team but those players all have time on their side. It will be a case of letting those players settle and growing together whilst adding other pieces to the jigsaw over time in a way that doesn't upset the mindset of the current squad. I'd say give it 3 years and we'd be serious contenders again.

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Armadillo Roadkill » 05 May 2009 19:27

Our faults are pretty easy to diagnose:

Poor distribution from the centre halves - the ball coming straight back at us.

A soft middle - inviting the opposition into our penaty area.

Kebe intermittent, SHunt too intricate - result, poor crosses.

Hopeless set plays.

Unforced error after unforced error throughout the team.

The home record since January doesn't lie. We're a long, long way from being a great team. Once Coppell leaves, we may never be one again.

I'm happy as long as we're in business and not an embarrassment - mid-table Championship would de me nicely. But for those of you out there who want to compete with Everton, Villa and the chasing pack every season, I think disapointment is your future.

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Rex » 05 May 2009 19:32

Until the team learn to be a coheasive unit and keep and play / pass the ball then the failures and breakdown in any midfield partnership will not provide the basic foundations of a great team.

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Blue Biscuit » 05 May 2009 20:20

I would argue that it isn't just the full-backs that need to up their games in order to have co-operating full-backs and wingers. Hunts wing play hasn't been great for the latter half of the season and Kebe's defensive qualities are virtually non-existent. Admittedly Rosenior does have 'headless' moments which doesn't help.

I do think Matejovsky is our most effective offensive midfielder, but defensively he's a liability. He's another who needs to up the defensive aspect of his game.


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Sir Rodger Doyle
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Sir Rodger Doyle » 05 May 2009 20:47

No.

We are about one relegation and two years of mismanagement from the "great team".

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Terminal Boardom » 05 May 2009 21:33

SLAMMED Kebe will mature as a player... Hunt can be a very good player...


Reading this really cheered me up. Someone pass me the valium PERLEEZE!!!

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Southbank Old Boy
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Southbank Old Boy » 05 May 2009 21:40

rhroyal I'll be shot for my next comment.

As individual players the class of 05/06 weren't that much better than our current lot. Sidwell, Little and Shorey maybe.


So you should be shot down in flames :shock:

05/06 v 08/09
Hahnemann v Hahnemann - a score draw but with the 08/09 version clinging onto the point with a backs to the wall performance
Murty v Rosenior - Murty, not by a massive margin in raw ability but in consistency of performance, his covering of his central defender and leadership miles ahead
Shorey v Armstrong - No contest, Shorey by a mile
Sonko v Doobs/Pearce/Bikey - Sonko again by a mile. Dont let his post injury form cloud the memories of some totally dominant defending for 2 seasons
Ivar v Ivar - Bit like Marcus really, he and Sonko formed such a balanced and formidable partnership, a handful of bookings between them summed it up
Little v Kebe - Is it even worth thinking about!!!
Convey v Hunt - Convey was such a consistent threat that season chipping in with goals and assists while actually playing decent football. If Hunt had maintained his anywhere near his top form it would be close, he hasnt and so its 6 v 0 so far with one draw
Sidwell v Marek/Cisse - can you see a top 4 side coming in for either of them? Do either of them have the alround game of Sidwell? 7 v 0 !
Harper v Harper/Karacan - 8 v 0
Doyle v Doyle/Lita - consistent goals from the forwards in 05/06 saw us romp home, 9 v 0
Kitson v Hunt/Long - You could play both of this season forwards and they wouldnt come close to the player Kitson was that season

Some of the gaps between the players might not be massive, but I couldnt put forward a compelling arguement for anyone apart from Marcus being a better player this season than their 05/06 counterpart

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Royal Rother » 05 May 2009 21:49

In answer to the original question we might be, we might not be, but I'll tell you this, there is a greater chance of us having another great team if Coppell is our manager next season rather than anybody else we might possibly get.


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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Rex » 05 May 2009 21:54

That is the crux of the matter. Should a new manager come in (whoever that is), the team will need to evole around the new mnagers personality and managerial style. Perhaps a fresher face assessing the team will break down the natural loyalty that SSC shows in his style of management. SSC is clearly a people manager who places loyalty and a close working managerial style as his ethics. A n other manager might have a similar outlook or bring in a different aspect to the management of the team. This could therefore go two ways.

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Southbank Old Boy
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Southbank Old Boy » 05 May 2009 21:59

Royal Rother In answer to the original question we might be, we might not be, but I'll tell you this, there is a greater chance of us having another great team if Coppell is our manager next season rather than anybody else we might possibly get.


Why?

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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by SLAMMED » 05 May 2009 22:13

The MVP
SLAMMED Kebe will mature as a player


You're more a twat than I first anticipated.


Idiot.

Look at Ronaldo when he first joined Man U. He did far to many step overs and tried too much. Look where he is now.

I know Kebe is miles off of Ronaldo, but the same applies. Ronaldo matured as a player and has become one of, if not the best player in the world.

If you're going to disagree with me, at least put a decent arguement instead.

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yuomi
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by yuomi » 05 May 2009 22:22

SLAMMED
The MVP
SLAMMED Kebe will mature as a player


You're more a twat than I first anticipated.


Idiot.

Look at Ronaldo when he first joined Man U. He did far to many step overs and tried too much. Look where he is now.

I know Kebe is miles off of Ronaldo, but the same applies. Ronaldo matured as a player and has become one of, if not the best player in the world.

If you're going to disagree with me, at least put a decent arguement instead.


yeah. but no.

im going to side with MVP on this one. comparing kebe to ronaldo is a bit like saying the janitor from my primary school could walk into the canadian curling team because he spent time with a broom. (nb im fairly sure he couldnt cos he was from gosport and must be dead by now). the glaring difference between the two examples is that KEBE IS OLDER THAN RONALDO. as for his maturing, if he matures anymore he will finally come to terms with the fact that he needs glassses, he has the touch of a sexualy frustrated tyrannosaur and the distribution of woolworths.

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SLAMMED
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by SLAMMED » 05 May 2009 22:45

I know Ronaldo is leagues ahead of Kebe, but the same basic principals apply. Ican see him being a vastly improved player in the future, just maybe not woth Reading.

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strap
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by strap » 05 May 2009 22:52

yuomi /
Look at Ronaldo when he first joined Man U. He did far to many step overs and tried too much. Look where he is now.

I know Kebe is miles off of Ronaldo, but the same applies. Ronaldo matured as a player and has become one of, if not the best player in the world.

If you're going to disagree with me, at least put a decent arguement instead.


yeah. but no.

im going to side with MVP on this one. comparing kebe to ronaldo is a bit like saying the janitor from my primary school could walk into the canadian curling team because he spent time with a broom. (nb im fairly sure he couldnt cos he was from gosport and must be dead by now). the glaring difference between the two examples is that KEBE IS OLDER THAN RONALDO. as for his maturing, if he matures anymore he will finally come to terms with the fact that he needs glassses, he has the touch of a sexualy frustrated tyrannosaur and the distribution of woolworths.


Look, lay off Kebe please. He's not a footballer. We know he's not a footballer, he knows he's not a footballer. Pretty soon the management will accept this as well, and he will quietly be on his way. Kebe doesn't pick the team, it's not his fault he's in the team week in week out. He's very good at what he does - which is run fast. It's just that he's rubbish at playing football!

To compare him with any footballer is laughable, so just ignore him and he'll go away - eventually - when we're in Div 3 - or when a new manager arrives and assess the squad he's inherited.

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Royal With Cheese
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Re: Are we actually that far away from another great team?

by Royal With Cheese » 05 May 2009 22:56

Did I really read Kebe is being compared to Ronaldo? I didn't see much of a comparison on Sunday.

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