New Signings ?

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Alan Partridge
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Re: New Signings ?

by Alan Partridge » 16 Jun 2009 17:08

Hogmeister Royal Or to look at it another way...

First season objective reach playoffs - good try, close but no cigar
Second season objective reach playoffs/push for promotion - good try, close but no cigar
Third season objective reach playoffs/push for promotion - outstanding success beyond anyone's wildest dreams
Fourth season objective stay up - outstanding success beyond anyone's wildest dreams
Fifth season objective stay up - desparately unlucky to go down on goal difference (due mainly to the most amazing great escape act by Fulham, aided and abetted by Portsmouth being in cup final)
Sixth season objective go back up - good try, close but no cigar

Verdict: A period of glorious achievement unparallelled in the club's history.


Again that would be the extreme but in the other way, I wouldn't call it a period of 'glorius success' but it sure as hell wasn't a 'failure'.

:P

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Re: New Signings ?

by Alan Partridge » 16 Jun 2009 17:11

Royalee
Alan Partridge Again though it's not really failure.

What did you expect from reading in their 2nd season of the Prem? Staying up would have been an achievement, they didn't quite manage it. It was hugely disappointing but a club like Reading sadly simply don't belong in the Premiership and it was always going to be immensely difficult to keep them there fora sustained period.



That's where we differ in opinion then - I think we have everything in place to stay there in the long term.


Not until Reading pay the going rate for players both in fees and salaries and under this current board Reading will never ever do that. Not a terrible thing but that's just the way it is, football has gone mad and while people don't think the Kieron Richardson's of this world are worth £6million and Gary Cahill at £5million that is simply the going rate for players even for teams at the bottom end of the table, whereas Reading might take a £800,000 or £1million 'gamble' on a player, in Premiership terms that is absolute chicken feed, a gamble might be £5million and you have to be able to take it if it doesn't pay off.

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Re: New Signings ?

by Hoop Blah » 16 Jun 2009 17:16

Royalee
Alan Partridge Again though it's not really failure.

What did you expect from reading in their 2nd season of the Prem? Staying up would have been an achievement, they didn't quite manage it. It was hugely disappointing but a club like Reading sadly simply don't belong in the Premiership and it was always going to be immensely difficult to keep them there fora sustained period.



That's where we differ in opinion then - I think we have everything in place to stay there in the long term.


We were in a great position to stay there for at least another season, after which point it's very difficult to judge what the future might bring.

I agree that it was a total failure to cock up the way we did and end up being relegated and that we had everything in place to give us a very good chance of continuing our success.

I don't think that the last two seasons means Coppell was a failure though, certainly not as big a one as your trying to make out.

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Re: New Signings ?

by Thaumagurist* » 16 Jun 2009 17:18

I've been reading some latest transfer news from the Chronic. Says if Rodgers does sell Doyle, then he'll definitely get in Tommy Smith.

I'm a bit meh about this. I'd prefer Doyle to Smith. :|

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Re: New Signings ?

by Alan Partridge » 16 Jun 2009 17:20

Thaumagurist* I've been reading some latest transfer news from the Chronic. Says if Rodgers does sell Doyle, then he'll definitely get in Tommy Smith.

I'm a bit meh about this. I'd prefer Doyle to Smith. :|


:lol: really? I think 99.9% of the footballing world would, it's why Doyle is linked with moves to the Premiership and Tommy Smith is a championship player linked with a move to another CCC club.


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Re: New Signings ?

by Gordons Cumming » 16 Jun 2009 17:35

If Smith replaces Doyle, who replaces Hunt?

...........and Lita,...............and USA?...................and Duberry?................and Murty?..........................

Just wondered.

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Re: New Signings ?

by skipper » 16 Jun 2009 17:45

Gordons Cumming If Smith replaces Doyle, who replaces Hunt?

...........and Lita,...............and USA?...................and Duberry?................and Murty?..........................

Just wondered.


Church>Fed>Pearce>Kelly. hth.

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Re: New Signings ?

by Hogmeister Royal » 16 Jun 2009 17:54

Alan Partridge
Thaumagurist* I've been reading some latest transfer news from the Chronic. Says if Rodgers does sell Doyle, then he'll definitely get in Tommy Smith.

I'm a bit meh about this. I'd prefer Doyle to Smith. :|


:lol: really? I think 99.9% of the footballing world would, it's why Doyle is linked with moves to the Premiership and Tommy Smith is a championship player linked with a move to another CCC club.


+1 :lol:

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Re: New Signings ?

by Royalee » 16 Jun 2009 18:20

Alan Partridge
Royalee
Alan Partridge Again though it's not really failure.

What did you expect from reading in their 2nd season of the Prem? Staying up would have been an achievement, they didn't quite manage it. It was hugely disappointing but a club like Reading sadly simply don't belong in the Premiership and it was always going to be immensely difficult to keep them there fora sustained period.



That's where we differ in opinion then - I think we have everything in place to stay there in the long term.


Not until Reading pay the going rate for players both in fees and salaries and under this current board Reading will never ever do that. Not a terrible thing but that's just the way it is, football has gone mad and while people don't think the Kieron Richardson's of this world are worth £6million and Gary Cahill at £5million that is simply the going rate for players even for teams at the bottom end of the table, whereas Reading might take a £800,000 or £1million 'gamble' on a player, in Premiership terms that is absolute chicken feed, a gamble might be £5million and you have to be able to take it if it doesn't pay off.


But wasn't it Coppell who said there was money to spend but he chose not to spend it? Certainly the fact that his most expensive signings were his worst doesn't help his case.


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Re: New Signings ?

by handbags_harris » 16 Jun 2009 18:28

Hogmeister Royal Fifth season objective stay up - desparately unlucky to go down on goal difference (due mainly to the most amazing great escape act by Fulham, aided and abetted by Portsmouth being in cup final)


I prefer to take into account conceding a late goal in each of the Fulham games, which if we hadn't would have meant we stayed up. There's that, or our complete inability to defend in two away games which, combined, totalled 13 goals conceded.

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Re: New Signings ?

by leww_rfc » 16 Jun 2009 18:32

skipper
Gordons Cumming If Smith replaces Doyle, who replaces Hunt?

...........and Lita,...............and USA?...................and Duberry?................and Murty?..........................

Just wondered.


Church>Fed>Pearce>Kelly. hth.


yeah i agree with that, we have Rosenior too, Plus Bikey and Ingimarsson i think is a good partnership at the back :D.
Federici I think is well capable of being our number one (and one of our vital goal scorers :wink:). Churchy could do great foward along with Kelly at Right back if Rosenior's unavailable.

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Re: New Signings ?

by Millsy » 16 Jun 2009 22:49

Alan Partridge
Royalee First season objective reach playoffs - fail
Second season objective reach playoffs/push for promotion - fail
Third season objective reach playoffs/push for promotion - success
Fourth season objective stay up - success
Fifth season objective stay up - fail
Sixth season objective go back up - fail

A failure.


Biggest load of shit posted on here in all honesty.

You'd think Reading were Real Madrid.

By this judgement just about every single manager in RFC's history is a failure.


The sad thing is, Royalee, you've been coming up with this big "load of shit" (AP's comment not mine, apologies) for a good while now and I and many others aren't taking your points/interpretations seriously enough to dignify them with responses because they're quite frankly laughable. I for one am just waiting for the dust to settle. To use your phrase: You know what I think? You just can't admit that you were *horribly* wrong about Coppell all along. And trying to justify it by revisiting it repeatedly just amplifies the problem and doesn't do you any favours whatsoever mate.

Just face it, accept your loss and move on. The rest of us have, and the rest of us can also see the guy's flaws and admit when *we've* been wrong by glossing over them.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I also say this with the same honesty: the even sadder thing is a significant proportion of your other posts are great (like one I recently agreed with). Even fantastic posters like yourself can be wrong you know and there's no harm in admitting it every once in a while like the rest of us do. Hopefully you'll be right about BR.

No more Coppell talk please. We have a new boss to swing handbags over! :wink:

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Re: New Signings ?

by Alan Partridge » 17 Jun 2009 09:10

Royalee
Alan Partridge
Alan Partridge Again though it's not really failure.

What did you expect from reading in their 2nd season of the Prem? Staying up would have been an achievement, they didn't quite manage it. It was hugely disappointing but a club like Reading sadly simply don't belong in the Premiership and it was always going to be immensely difficult to keep them there fora sustained period.




Not until Reading pay the going rate for players both in fees and salaries and under this current board Reading will never ever do that. Not a terrible thing but that's just the way it is, football has gone mad and while people don't think the Kieron Richardson's of this world are worth £6million and Gary Cahill at £5million that is simply the going rate for players even for teams at the bottom end of the table, whereas Reading might take a £800,000 or £1million 'gamble' on a player, in Premiership terms that is absolute chicken feed, a gamble might be £5million and you have to be able to take it if it doesn't pay off.


But wasn't it Coppell who said there was money to spend but he chose not to spend it? Certainly the fact that his most expensive signings were his worst doesn't help his case.


I think you are being a bit naieve if you think there was a spare wad of cash floating around for players and COppell simply didn't want to spend it. There probably was some money, but the wage structure is well documented and Reading wouldn't break that for anyone. So while there may have been some money around (certainly not a £40million like a Sunderland or a Portsmouth might have) it's going to be nigh on impossible to attract any semi decent established players.

Coppell said at a fans forum re Scott Brown that they bid £4million for him, Hibs accepted, his agent phoned straight away and asked for £x amount a week. Way outside of Reading's wage structure. They tried to get him down first and foremost just to have a look around and maybe negotiate, but he wouldn't even get on a plane unless he was guaranteed a certain amount.

That's a club policy, nothing to do with Coppell, some would say it's good some would say it's doing things on the cheap. But that's the way the Premiership works, you have to be a big payer to be a big player. There may well have been around £10million of a budget remaining for players but if even guys playing at Hibernian want more than Reading are prepared to pay then it leaves the manager's hands severely tied.

So while the arguement has always been Coppell chose not to spend it,technically that is true, but in practical terms Coppell couldn't spend it on anyone half decent. Hence why we ended up with a load of cheap foreign signings/a load of cack.


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Re: New Signings ?

by papereyes » 17 Jun 2009 09:22

read some nonsense that 'if Pards had stayed we'd have gone up' Not for me.


I stand by this. Maybe not in 03/04, but if Pardew had managed Reading over the same period as Coppell (5 seasons following the one already mentioned), we'd have had at least one season in the Premiership. I'm not saying that it would have been achieved in the same manner as those under Coppell, I'm not saying we'd still be there.

I'm simply saying that under the stewardship of Madejski, we're a club that can and does compete at the top of the Championship.

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Re: New Signings ?

by Alan Partridge » 17 Jun 2009 09:24

papereyes
read some nonsense that 'if Pards had stayed we'd have gone up' Not for me.


I stand by this. Maybe not in 03/04, but if Pardew had managed Reading over the same period as Coppell (5 seasons following the one already mentioned), we'd have had at least one season in the Premiership. I'm not saying that it would have been achieved in the same manner as those under Coppell, I'm not saying we'd still be there.

I'm simply saying that under the stewardship of Madejski, we're a club that can and does compete at the top of the Championship.


Quick one on this papeyeres, I meant Pards wouldn't have got that Reading squad promoted in that season, he maybe and probably at some point would have got them up after that.

2nd point totally agree. Premiership is a step too far for the current board in all honesty.

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Re: New Signings ?

by papereyes » 17 Jun 2009 09:31

I understood. I just thought I should clarify.

Premiership is a step too far for the current board in all honesty.


Yeah, maybe. I think staying there a la Wigan or Bolton is within our means - I still can't find the Deloitte report from 07/08 but the previous season saw us only a few million off some pretty established clubs.

I don't think its the amount we're spending per se that's the problem - its the wage structure and players targeted.

I know there's good reasons for it but we've, essentially, failed to sign a player who has improved the squad since 2006. Multimillion pound players such as Halford, Fae, Lita, Marek and Seol (even arguably Bikey) have failed to make an extended impact on the team in spite of their obvious talents and then we've also spent what amounts to a significant sum, for us, on players that simply didn't improve the squad - Bennett, Sodje, Mooney thus far.

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Re: New Signings ?

by papereyes » 17 Jun 2009 09:44

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/wages.pdf

Premiership Wages 07/08

1 Chelsea 172.1(2) 132.8(2**)
2 Manchester United 121.1(1*) 92.3(1)
3 Arsenal 101.3(3) 89.7(4)
4 Liverpool 90.4(4) 77.6(3)
5 Newcastle 74.6(12) 56.7(13)
6 Portsmouth 54.7(8*) 36.9(9)
7 Manchester City 54.2(9) 36.4(14)
8 Tottenham 52.9(11*) 43.8(5)
9 Aston Villa 50.4(6) 43.2(11)
10 Everton 44.5(5) 38.4(6)
11 Blackburn 39.7(7) 36.7(10)
12 Fulham 39.3(17) 35.2(16)
13 Bolton 39.0(16) 30.7(7)
14 Wigan 38.4(14) 27.5(17)
15 Sunderland 37.1(15) 23.7 (n/a)
16 Middlesborough 34.7(13) 38.3 (12)
17 Reading 33.1(18) 29.8(8)
18 Birmingham 26.6(19) 20.9 (n/a)
19 Derby 26.1(20) 17.3(n/a)

No data - West Ham :|

Bold = wage bill for 07/8 season, final position in brackets, * indicates trophy won
Italic = wage bill for 06/07 season, final position in brackets, * indicates trophy won

Do I have to point out that "going to go bankrupt, can't afford to sign these players" Sunderland have a wage bill for the 07/08 season less than £5 million greater than ours (about 10 % greater).
Last edited by papereyes on 17 Jun 2009 10:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Signings ?

by Alan Partridge » 17 Jun 2009 09:48

papereyes http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/wages.pdf


Bottom 3, 3 teams that went down.

Reading's probably a bit swelled by the sheer number of players on the squad list with no chance of playing, Bennett, Sodje, Halls etc that season.

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Re: New Signings ?

by papereyes » 17 Jun 2009 10:04

Alan Partridge
papereyes http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/wages.pdf


Bottom 3, 3 teams that went down.


I'd suggest that having 7 teams between 39 and 33 million paints a slightly more complicated picture than that.

It really does read as a case of: "for the want of a nail, a shoe was lost"

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Re: New Signings ?

by Gordons Cumming » 17 Jun 2009 10:16

skipper
Gordons Cumming If Smith replaces Doyle, who replaces Hunt?

...........and Lita,...............and USA?...................and Duberry?................and Murty?..........................

Just wondered.


Church>Fed>Pearce>Kelly. hth.



What I mean is that our squad numbers have dropped now. Those players were already here. What if these players get injured, who replaces them?
Our squad depth isn't as good now.

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