RUMOUR - Tommy Smith

[rfcjoe]

^couldn't agree more.



(does anybody read that shite btw?)

[Snowball]

would it be foolish to say that posting the statistic:
"Striker "XXXX" over three full seasons has scored twice as many goals per game as any other striker in this league."

is an obvious implication that he is the best striker in the league and it has been posted for the express purpose to make that point?

It's certainly not just been posted to allow others to interpret it and come to some unthought of conclusion.



Sorry!

Do I know you?

If people read a stat and form a reasoned opinion based
on that stat. isn't that better than seeing the stat and being told the conclusion?

[Snowball]

^couldn't agree more.



(does anybody read that shite btw?)

It means, luvvy, that Shane Long scores more league goals for Reading than Lita
when allowance is made for total games played.

[rfcjoe]

Ah, I seeeee

[winchester_royal]

The problem is Snowball your statistics completely ignore all the variables involved in football matches. To come up with statistics like the ones you are giving, and for them to mean something, they need to have occured under EXACTLY the same conditions as each other.

Long is used mostly as a sub, when defenders are most tired, therefore it is easier to score. Just one example of such a variable.

[tee peg]

and he has less time to score in........

[Rawlie19]

Is this guy still spouting shit? I thought this was a thread for TOMMY SMITH!!!! WILL YOU MOVE ON YOU MORON! (I'm not reading any of it btw, it's all blocked, but I guess he's still going on about stats and shit).

[tee peg]

yep, but there is f all to talk about regarding Smith.

[Rawlie19]

Just found the other thread. Let's close this then.

[Royal Rother]

Lita's overall career stats and performances may indicate that he HAS BEEN a better player than Long but, for whatever reason, the stats show that Long's goal-scoring contributions have been far far better for Reading FC during the last couple of seasons.

Strangely, Snowball pointed that out mid-way through last season just before Long came into his best patch of form, and not long before Lita proved once and for all what a waste of space he was in an RFC shirt.

The fact that people still believe that their own eyes have told them that Lita is still the better player is pretty laughable. There is a stage when historical form becomes a virtual irrelevance when assessing actual / potential contribution to a team and Lita's 2 month purple-patch in the PL some 3 years ago has long become a total irrelevance in my book.

Refusal to accept what the stats show on Long -v- Lita in terms of shots, assists, goals etc. is plain daft but ally that with the indisputable fact (surely?) that Lita's work-rate, running, tackling back etc. etc. are all far less worthy than Long's as well and it's a bit of a no-brainer.

[Hoop Blah]

Agree on the timings there RR, although Snowball's stance was, IIRC, that Long was being harshly critised by the fans and not given enough chances by the management.

The crux of the debate was more about how the stats failed to show who was the more accomplished player, not the one with the best goals per game ratio. Long was showing himself to be more effective than Lita at that time, but that just highlights how we failed to utilise the talents at our disposal to their maximum I guess.

Snowball didn't help his arguement by constantly changing the parameters to suit his standpoint and by failing to accept that the stats were a little shaky and didnt actually take into account the players strengths, weaknesses and abilities.

[bigmike]

Agree on the timings there RR, although Snowball's stance was, IIRC, that Long was being harshly critised by the fans and not given enough chances by the management.

The crux of the debate was more about how the stats failed to show who was the more accomplished player, not the one with the best goals per game ratio. Long was showing himself to be more effective than Lita at that time, but that just highlights how we failed to utilise the talents at our disposal to their maximum I guess.

Snowball didn't help his arguement by constantly changing the parameters to suit his standpoint and by failing to accept that the stats were a little shaky and didnt actually take into account the players strengths, weaknesses and abilities.

From reading this thread it seems that Snowballs main tactic is to constantly change the parameters to suit his standpoint an then he comes out with the I am a professional writer and have been for some time therefore you are wrong. Then come the insults calling anyone who does not see things his way stupid or thick.

Snowball you sound like you are a very accomplished writer ( not sure sarcasm comes over correctly on message boards) Who are you Oliver Holt ??


Oh and btw

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I do not think that this thread has been on topic for some time. So please either change the title to the Handbags thread or delete the thread please mods

[Royal Rother]

From reading this thread it seems that Snowballs main tactic is to constantly change the parameters to suit his standpoint

Wrong. He shows different angles / stats of basically the same key information to illustrate their validity in the face of a constant barrage of largely ill-informed criticism and misrepresentation.

[CMRoyal]

From reading this thread it seems that Snowballs main tactic is to constantly change the parameters to suit his standpoint

Wrong. He shows different angles / stats of basically the same key information to illustrate their validity in the face of a constant barrage of largely ill-informed criticism and misrepresentation.

You're both wrong. The truth is somewhere inbetween, and if we all could cool it when responding to each other - and that includes snowball - or learn to ignore anything that winds us up, I'm sure we'd be able to squeeze out what goodness there is in all the pap.

[Hoop Blah]

From reading this thread it seems that Snowballs main tactic is to constantly change the parameters to suit his standpoint

Wrong. He shows different angles / stats of basically the same key information to illustrate their validity in the face of a constant barrage of largely ill-informed criticism and misrepresentation.

Not quite RR.

He'll quite often pick the sample that suits his analysis the most in order to try and defend his point or stats.

When objections are made over his stats, their accuracy or the way they're applied he'll go off on a tangent to draw attention away from the question or critique instead of addressing them directly.

As you said earlier, at times his stats are interesting and a useful insight into some of the performance measures. The way he presents them and the way he utilises them leaves a lot to be desired though and it just gets peoples backs up.

[Snowball]

From reading this thread it seems that Snowballs main tactic is to constantly change the parameters to suit his standpoint

Wrong. He shows different angles / stats of basically the same key information to illustrate their validity in the face of a constant barrage of largely ill-informed criticism and misrepresentation.

Thank-you, Royal. The league scoring ability of Shane Long is CATEGORICALLY better than Leroy Lita when playing for Reading. It was last season, and the season before, and is better when you lump the whole of the last four seasons together. 17 goals from a 40-game equivalent is unarguably better than 20 goals from 60 games.

So the hecklers who wish to maintain their idiotic stances even when the evidence proves them wrong will constantly move their attack. First it was "It's easier to score in the last minutes of the game when you come on as a sub against tired defences"... then add in that "Shane Long is OK as a sub but is useless when he starts.

So I show that 77% (7 from 9) of his goals last year were in games he started (and one where he came on in the 25th minute).

Does that make people say they were simply wrong? Of course not, they just try a different tack, and when I respond to THAT, they say I'm changing the stats.

In the last 15 games of the 2008-9 season, Reading FC scored a total of 12 goals. Long did not play in 1 of the 15, played ONE MINUTE in another, 13 in another and 26 in a fourth

Yet Shane Long scored 6 out of 12 = 50% of the club's goals, in the equivalent of 11 games

[Snowball]

From reading this thread it seems that Snowballs main tactic is to constantly change the parameters to suit his standpoint

Wrong. He shows different angles / stats of basically the same key information to illustrate their validity in the face of a constant barrage of largely ill-informed criticism and misrepresentation.

You're both wrong. The truth is somewhere in between, and if we all could cool it when responding to each other - and that includes snowball - or learn to ignore anything that winds us up, I'm sure we'd be able to squeeze out what goodness there is in all the pap.

You seem to overlook how every time a stat supports Long, half-a-dozen people will find a NEW
reason why the stat means nothing. Apart from Lita's meaningless 94th minute goal when we
were already winning 3-0 v Watford, how many other players came on as impact sub in the last
10-15 minutes and scored? Did Doyle? Did Kitson? Did Noel Hunt?

How come THOSE players "coming on fresh against tired defences" couldn't score?

[chilipepper91]

christ, lock this

[Snowball]

Christ is not one of the Mods

[Rawlie19]

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

I'd dearly like to know which books he's written just so I can make sure I never waste any money on them.