Could we be involved in a relegation battle?

[Ian Royal]

and unless things change, we will be brilliantly run ... in the 3rd tier ... just like Leeds and Charlton et al.

Bloody hell, Reading Town is "brilliantly run", so is Tilehurst FC, but they aren't in 2nd tier of English football are they?!?!?

Your point is .... well it has no point!!

That is utter tosh.

What is? The bit about Tilehurst FC? The club was "brilliantly run" in the PL, but that didn't stop us being relegated did it?

The club wasn't brilliantly run in the Prem, because we mispent what we did, and probably should have spent more. Or identified better players for the same price.

The way the club is run is not likely to lead to relegation to League 1 any time soon, barring major cock ups. Yes we could slip back into third tier obsurity, but it's very unlikely to happen in the next few seasons.

We were always going to be a small fish in a big pond in the first dozen or so Prem seasons. We're a pretty big fish in the Championship these days. And we plan carefully and sensibly.

[Forbury Lion]

Relegation battle is just as likely as a Promotion battle and that's why I'm excited about this season. It's an unknown.

[strap]

That is utter tosh.

What is? The bit about Tilehurst FC? The club was "brilliantly run" in the PL, but that didn't stop us being relegated did it?

The club wasn't brilliantly run in the Prem, because we mispent what we did, and probably should have spent more. Or identified better players for the same price.

The way the club is run is not likely to lead to relegation to League 1 any time soon, barring major cock ups. Yes we could slip back into third tier obsurity, but it's very unlikely to happen in the next few seasons.

We were always going to be a small fish in a big pond in the first dozen or so Prem seasons. We're a pretty big fish in the Championship these days. And we plan carefully and sensibly.

Ian, your memory is playing tricks on you. How can we have mis-spent what we did when we recouped the fees paid for Fae and Halford? (Although I do concede the point re. Kebe). Of course we should have spent more, but if we had then, according to the "wisdom" on this board (and indeed the Club), the club wouldn't have been run brilliantly. Fast forward to this year ... and we find ourselves in exactly the same situation. So if we are brilliantly run now (allegedly), it follows that we were "brilliantly run" in the PL. In a nutshell, the only thing we are doing differently now is spend even less money on transfers, whilst at the same time selling off valuable assets. If we got relegated when we were spending a bit of cash, what chances are there that we will struggle again if we spend nothing? Do not let the idea of big and small ponds cloud the issue. The Championship is littered with "big" clubs floundering in the "small" pond.

Don't get me wrong, I was one of the ones spouting on about no purchases = no ambition as soon as the first transfer window of our first year in the PL closed, and have been of consistent in my views ever since. I personally do NOT think the club was "brilliantly run" in the PL, (hence the quote marks i nthe original post). Given the "pond" we were in, our strategy was clearly geared to future Championship seasons and maximising the sale value of the club, and had nothing whatsover to do with a serious attempt to become an established PL side. Our "performance" in the transfer windows (on the purchasing side) since then has generally been laughable considering the rhetoric coming out of the Club.

We are now apparently relying on the Academy to form the backbone of our 2nd tier side this year. Not one single player has graduated from the Academy to hold down a regular place in a team at a significant level. Yet here we have a manager (with no significant experience), expecting the sudden metamorphosis of several Academy players into established 2nd tier players in one pre-season!! He will be an absolute genius if he pulls it off, and I really hope he does it - however, RFC has NO previous history of suddenly producing a successful side full of youngsters overnight, (well certainly not since the days of Ted Drake that I can recall anyway).

I suppose in an odd way, should the likes of Henry, Karacan, Kelly, Pearce, Sigurdsson, Baggie, Church, Hamer, Davies et al prove themselves and become regular 1st team starters this year, then questions will asked of the previouos regime as to why more of them weren't used in the previouso season when it was so obvious we needed an injection of new blood?

Anyway, enough rambling. If we finish mid-table this year and play attractive passing football, I for one will be satisfied. If we are involved in a relegation scrap I will not be in the least surprised. If we are in with a shout at the play-offs I will be delighted, and if we get automatic promotion, BR will be Chelsea's new manager at the start of the 2010-11 season!

Have a good w/e.

[russyb]

Don't real agree fully with what your saying STRAP.

for one thing lots of youngsters went out on loan some to championship clubs and received rave reviews from those clubs etc perfomed well and held their places in those teams often winning motm awards etc.

[weybridgewanderer]

Don't real agree fully with what your saying STRAP.

for one thing lots of youngsters went out on loan some to championship clubs and received rave reviews from those clubs etc perfomed well and held their places in those teams often winning motm awards etc.

murts and lita went to charlton and norwich respectively, mooney replaced lita at norwich and scored 3 in 9, alex pearce was on loan at southampton

all 3 of these clubs were relegated

is this the successful loan spells at championship clubs of lots of our youngsters to which you refer?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Don't real agree fully with what your saying STRAP.

for one thing lots of youngsters went out on loan some to championship clubs and received rave reviews from those clubs etc perfomed well and held their places in those teams often winning motm awards etc.

murts and lita went to charlton and norwich respectively, mooney replaced lita at norwich and scored 3 in 9, alex pearce was on loan at southampton

all 3 of these clubs were relegated

is this the successful loan spells at championship clubs of lots of our youngsters to which you refer?

doing well on loan for a player is not the same as the clubs doing well. Judging how well Alex Pearce played at Southampton by their final league position is ridiculous.

[Royalee]

Don't real agree fully with what your saying STRAP.

for one thing lots of youngsters went out on loan some to championship clubs and received rave reviews from those clubs etc perfomed well and held their places in those teams often winning motm awards etc.

murts and lita went to charlton and norwich respectively, mooney replaced lita at norwich and scored 3 in 9, alex pearce was on loan at southampton

all 3 of these clubs were relegated

is this the successful loan spells at championship clubs of lots of our youngsters to which you refer?

Sir Alex Ferguson signing Michael Owen makes a mockery of your argument.

[Ian Royal]

Not reading all that strap.

The first couple of lines says enough for me. How could we have misspent £5m on Fae and Halford, when we recouped that money?

Well, it was mispent because it went on players who were absolutely no bloody use to us, when we had some big holes in the squad that needed filling. Had we spent £5m on a right winger and a central midfielder who had an attitude that fit in and actually played regularly, the money wouldn't have been mispent.

We got it back. Yay! We still didn't get the players we needed and we'd been relegated.

[weybridgewanderer]

Don't real agree fully with what your saying STRAP.

for one thing lots of youngsters went out on loan some to championship clubs and received rave reviews from those clubs etc perfomed well and held their places in those teams often winning motm awards etc.

murts and lita went to charlton and norwich respectively, mooney replaced lita at norwich and scored 3 in 9, alex pearce was on loan at southampton

all 3 of these clubs were relegated

is this the successful loan spells at championship clubs of lots of our youngsters to which you refer?

Sir Alex Ferguson signing Michael Owen makes a mockery of your argument.

i think we had successful loans of our younger players, just not at championship sides as russyb indicated

note that 2 of the 4 i mentioned were not reading academy players

who are the "lots of successful championship" loanees we had? mooney and pearce?

[brendywendy]

I suppose in an odd way, should the likes of Henry, Karacan, Kelly, Pearce, Sigurdsson, Baggie, Church, Hamer, Davies et al prove themselves and become regular 1st team starters this year, then questions will asked of the previouos regime as to why more of them weren't used in the previouso season when it was so obvious we needed an injection of new blood?

except that karacan, henry, pearce,kelly and church all played last year, some more than a few appearances
the rest were out getting thyemselves the 1st team game time that will make them decent players this year

[Ian Royal]

The club a loanee is at does not have to perform well for that loan to be a success. Afterall one or two players do not make a team.

Whether a loan is a success or not depends on a few things:

a) Did the player consistently start and play games?
b) Did that player play well?
c) Did that player learn and improve?

None of those are dependent on the club the player is on loan at winning games, or avoiding relegation.

[Seal]

I always fear for teams that don't have a good spine, and I really think we're struggling in this respect with the current squad.

We have some decent centre backs, but the most obvious candidate to be our leader at the back (Pearce) is young and unproven. Bikey could be if he wasn't such a mentalist.

Our midfield is neat and tidy, but my god...Tabb / Matejovskey / Karacan? How are they ever going to dominate a midfield? We are still in desperate need of a midfield general (how long have we be saying that for now?).

Up front, again, we have some good footballers, but no one I can see as a real number 9, who will lead the line for an entire season.

With all that in mind, you can see a lot of pretty football, but a lack of end product, and a team with a soft underbelly. All classic signs of a relegation candidate.

However, I do think the squad will be too strong to get sucked into a relegation fight, but I would feel a lot more comforable saying that if we did go ahead and make a couple of signings. I don't expect us to go crazy, but I would expect that a significant amount of the revenue received from the Doyle sale could be reinvested. If it's not, than like others I would question the objectives of the club.

[weybridgewanderer]

The club a loanee is at does not have to perform well for that loan to be a success. Afterall one or two players do not make a team.

Whether a loan is a success or not depends on a few things:

a) Did the player consistently start and play games?
b) Did that player play well?
c) Did that player learn and improve?

None of those are dependent on the club the player is on loan at winning games, or avoiding relegation.

let me edit my post slightly

murts and lita went to charlton and norwich respectively, mooney replaced lita at norwich and scored 3 in 9, alex pearce was on loan at southampton

are these the successful loan spells at championship clubs for lots of our youngsters to which russyb referred?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

The club a loanee is at does not have to perform well for that loan to be a success. Afterall one or two players do not make a team.

Whether a loan is a success or not depends on a few things:

a) Did the player consistently start and play games?
b) Did that player play well?
c) Did that player learn and improve?

None of those are dependent on the club the player is on loan at winning games, or avoiding relegation.

let me edit my post slightly

murts and lita went to charlton and norwich respectively, mooney replaced lita at norwich and scored 3 in 9, alex pearce was on loan at southampton

are these the successful loan spells at championship clubs for lots of our youngsters to which russyb referred?

Re-read his post, but with the addition of some missing punctuation.


for one thing, lots of youngsters went out on loan, some to championship clubs, and received rave reviews from those clubs etc

[Sun Tzu]

Not one single player has graduated from the Academy to hold down a regular place in a team at a significant level.

Other than Darius Henderson. And we've also had a number of other Academy graduates fetch significant fees so presumably someone out there has rated Tyson, Cox and that young keeper highly at some point !

Yet here we have a manager (with no significant experience), expecting the sudden metamorphosis of several Academy players into established 2nd tier players in one pre-season!!

I would have thought he's looking for a lot less than that. Isn't he looking for a group of players to continue the progress they have already shown either us or other clubs ? They don't need to become 'established' overnight. Kevin Doyle didn;t become 'established' overnight. They need to perform quite quickly but to be established requires time - not ability.
Rodgers alleged lack of experience is also a red herring. He has years of experience in the game as a coach with plenty of success. he's even managed in this division already and with many of these players. Presumably Ancellotti is useless because he has no English experience !

He will be an absolute genius if he pulls it off, and I really hope he does it - however, RFC has NO previous history of suddenly producing a successful side full of youngsters overnight, (well certainly not since the days of Ted Drake that I can recall anyway).

I know, it's nice to see it happening isn't it. Perhaps it's never happened before becasue we've never had a youth set up on a par with this one before ? Odd how a policy of throwing resources at youth development for the first time has produced a large crop of good youth players for the first time. Perhaps there is some obscure link there ?

I suppose in an odd way, should the likes of Henry, Karacan, Kelly, Pearce, Sigurdsson, Baggie, Church, Hamer, Davies et al prove themselves and become regular 1st team starters this year, then questions will asked of the previouos regime as to why more of them weren't used in the previouso season when it was so obvious we needed an injection of new blood?

Well in some cases they were just too young (Baggie). In others there was no relevance (Hamer) and in yet others they were out gaining the playing experience that was seen as a key part of their development. Was sigurdsson ready last season ? I suspect not. Henry ? Possibly. Church ? Hard to tell. But I think you do have a point that whilst Pearce and Karajan were getting games it couldn;t have don emuch harm to play one or two others .

[Alan Partridge]

Reading the comments here,people said exactly the same 2 years ago ad we all know what happened. 3 worse teams, how many of you last year honestly put Charlton to finish bottom of the league and Newcastle to get relegated from the Premiership?

As pointed out it's really a lottery with so many young players and it could go one way or the other. We've seen teams in recent years who change established long serving managers and i can't remember the last team to actually do better straight away from doing so,hopefully it'll be the right decision in the long run but straight away it rarely happens. Loads of examples of it going the other way.

Anyone actually expecting to get promotion this season I'd personally say is far more deluded than anyone just saying we may struggle a bit, to expect a managerin his first season with a team of kids to win things is living in fantasy. It MAY somehow happen but to expect it means that you are likely to be in for a shock this season. Rodgers is going to need a couple of years like Coppell did to remake this team, especially if by the evidence so far is that money is tight, then we are pretty much reliant on the likes of Henry, Pearce, HRK, Sigurdsson etc stepping up to the plate on a consistent basis. That could easily take 2-3 years.

[Agent Balti]

Got to agree with AP here. There is absolutely no logic in thinking that we're a shoe-in for auto-promotion, let alone being anywhere close to that. There have been too many changes, possibly more to come, that will dictate our short term form.

If anyone at the end of last season said that to win promotion this year we'd need to sell Doyle, lose our biggest earners, rely on the academy kids with a new manager and playing system then they're an utter genius. Of course, we've yet to see the clubs full hand if more signings are to come in, but we're not holding our collective breaths. There will be (at least) 3 clubs far, far better than us next season without a doubt.

Will there be 3 clubs worse off? I doubt that too, but it depends on our first ten games. If we can get anywhere near 2 points a game then we should do just fine - anything less than a point a game (after ten games), then we'll be slightly worried!

[brendywendy]

im expecting amid tableseason of ups and downs

if theers motre down that up, relegation may be an option

[Alan Partridge]

im expecting amid tableseason of ups and downs

if theers motre down that up, relegation may be an option

That's my prediction also.

[Dirk Gently]

Yep - the one thing that youngsters virtually guarantees is inconsistency. Some days they'll be superb, others rubbish, but as they play more and gain more experience together hopefully the rubbish days will become fewer and fewer, and those who aren't up to the task will be found out and replaced, one way or another. But it'll also be more exciting to watch as the kids will take more risks and play at a greater pace than the older, more experienced players.

I just hope the supporters appreciate this and bear with them as they learn - because motivational booing of kids is even more dangerous than motivational booing of oldies.