The perspective thread.

[Sir Dodger Royal]

Look Mr Platypus. You may have a soft pliable bill shaped like your feet but your brain is soft as the dough that makes SDR's pizzas.

You know that SDR has his finger on the pulse and until the Chairman listens to SDR and takes action we will be losing money in a market place where the crowds will disintegrate just like Hampshire Royals brain cells have done over the years.

SDR has been quiet for two years but Coppell and Hamond were just Madman's poodles. I haven't seen anything different to date from Brenda who needs to understand that she will take the can if this team continues to drop like a stone.

She need to prove she is a man then just like the Police we can then scrap STAR and start up a Trans Gender Club for all the queer folk called RTGs.

Real Facts Real World from the main man. You know it makes senseeeeeeeeeeee

[79Royal]

Thanks to Coppell, I believe the decision has been taken to start from scratch and if this young side gets to the Prem by the end of next season we might, under the right management, be able to establish ourselves this time.

Whatever your feelings about Coppell, you can't seriously believe that the youngsters that performed so badly yesterday would have made a huge impact in our team last year? Karacan and Pearce came in a did well for spells I accept, but do you think we'd have finished fourth with the team that played yesterday? It's thanks to Coppell that we let some of the youngsters go out on loan and get some experience at a level more suited to them at the time. It's also thanks to Coppell that we have money to spend without having to draw on bank debts.

I agree that Coppell needed to go and with hindsight, that he stayed one season too long - but to suggest that Coppell is at fault for BR's decision to play a young team this season is ludicrous. I'm pleased that our former academy players are getting their chance, but to throw them in all at once is a big risk and it could backfire on Rodgers.

[Royal Rother]

Believe me, given the choice of watching todays young team being outplayed or, the last one Coppell took up there fairing no better despite having shed loads more experience, I'd swap this evenings armchair for the air fare 2 years ago every time.

Probably the best point on the whole thread.

Despite all the perfectly reasonable observations about the lack of experience in the team chosen yesterday, they actually performed no worse than Coppell's teams did up at St James' - in fact in the 1st half we mostly matched them in style and swagger, until we got in / near the 18 yard box when it all came to nothing. Nothing different to the rest of 2009 there then, when we had a team full of experienced players.

Do people really want to see Bertrand, Pearce, Karacan, Davies and Church all ditched for Armstrong, Bikey, Gunarsson, Harper and NHunt already? It will take time but the experience gained by young players in the struggles, and the information gleaned by the manager in defeat, are invaluable.

The team is on a learning curve and there will be some hard knocks on the way - no conclusions can be drawn after 2 games except that there is a lot to be positive about but even more to work on. Can we not be thankful that, unlike Coppell's team in recent times, it is almost certain that this bunch have it in them to learn and improve?

[Schards#2]

The single most depressing thing about the start of this season is Woodcote Royal's full backing of Rodgers. This is the man who laughed at the suggestion that we wouldn't be selling out the existing ground a couple of years back and demanded the extention go ahead. This is the man who mocked the suggestion that last season may be dull, this is the man who's number one hate figure is the most successful manager in the club's history, who broke the points record in winning the championship and took a side built on the cheap to 8th in the premiership with no significant investment.

When the man who has a track record of being 100% wrong on absolutely everything thinks we are moving in the right direction, it's time for the alarm bells to start ringing. Come on Woodcote, take one for the team and start slagging Rodgers off - it's the only hope.

[leon]

Believe me, given the choice of watching todays young team being outplayed or, the last one Coppell took up there fairing no better despite having shed loads more experience, I'd swap this evenings armchair for the air fare 2 years ago every time.

Probably the best point on the whole thread.

Despite all the perfectly reasonable observations about the lack of experience in the team chosen yesterday, they actually performed no worse than Coppell's teams did up at St James' - in fact in the 1st half we mostly matched them in style and swagger, until we got in / near the 18 yard box when it all came to nothing. Nothing different to the rest of 2009 there then, when we had a team full of experienced players.

Do people really want to see Bertrand, Pearce, Karacan, Davies and Church all ditched for Armstrong, Bikey, Gunarsson, Harper and NHunt already? It will take time but the experience gained by young players in the struggles, and the information gleaned by the manager in defeat, are invaluable.

The team is on a learning curve and there will be some hard knocks on the way - no conclusions can be drawn after 2 games except that there is a lot to be positive about but even more to work on. Can we not be thankful that, unlike Coppell's team in recent times, it is almost certain that this bunch have it in them to learn and improve?

People just want to see a blend that is all.

[Royal Rother]

Don't get drawn in WR - it's been a pretty good thread so far.

[Schards#2]

Believe me, given the choice of watching todays young team being outplayed or, the last one Coppell took up there fairing no better despite having shed loads more experience, I'd swap this evenings armchair for the air fare 2 years ago every time.

Probably the best point on the whole thread.

Despite all the perfectly reasonable observations about the lack of experience in the team chosen yesterday, they actually performed no worse than Coppell's teams did up at St James' - in fact in the 1st half we mostly matched them in style and swagger, until we got in / near the 18 yard box when it all came to nothing. Nothing different to the rest of 2009 there then, when we had a team full of experienced players.

Do people really want to see Bertrand, Pearce, Karacan, Davies and Church all ditched for Armstrong, Bikey, Gunarsson, Harper and NHunt already? It will take time but the experience gained by young players in the struggles, and the information gleaned by the manager in defeat, are invaluable.

The team is on a learning curve and there will be some hard knocks on the way - no conclusions can be drawn after 2 games except that there is a lot to be positive about but even more to work on. Can we not be thankful that, unlike Coppell's team in recent times, it is almost certain that this bunch have it in them to learn and improve?

The reality is, if you sell £10 million more of players than you buy year on year, then year on year you are going to get worse and worse. The brick by brick mentality has gone into reverse and involves a steady dismantling.

Madejski has never made the sort of investment needed to give a decent shot at Promotion to the Premiership, he landed a manager who totally bucked the trend by building a championship winning and mid table prem side with minimal investment. Now that manager has gone, it is unrealistic to either expect the chairman's outlook to change or to expect another manager to buck the trend.

Hopefully the youngsters will come good but it is unlikely that a bunch of kids will simultaneously all become good enough to hold their own in the championship at once, it is unlikely in the extreme that they will simultaneously become players capable of dominating it.

[Woodcote Royal]

The single most depressing thing about the start of this season is Woodcote Royal's full backing of Rodgers. This is the man who laughed at the suggestion that we wouldn't be selling out the existing ground a couple of years back and demanded the extention go ahead. This is the man who mocked the suggestion that last season may be dull, this is the man who's number one hate figure is the most successful manager in the club's history, who broke the points record in winning the championship and took a side built on the cheap to 8th in the premiership with no significant investment.

When the man who has a track record of being 100% wrong on absolutely everything thinks we are moving in the right direction, it's time for the alarm bells to start ringing. Come on Woodcote, take one for the team and start slagging Rodgers off - it's the only hope.

I forgot to log on before reading this thread this morning but now that I have, it's a relief to see that my ignore settings survived our transfer to a new server.

If only all posters were obliged to supply their mental age and I could ignore everyone under five............................

[Royal Rother]

The reality is, if you sell £10 million more of players than you buy year on year, then year on year you are going to get worse and worse. The brick by brick mentality has gone into reverse and involves a steady dismantling.

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. We don't operate in a fantasy football league.

This is the real world of profits and losses and recession and small clubs like RFC have to cut their cloth (or have a Chairman's open cheque book) to survive. Selling players above their real worth is something we have got pretty good at and, now we have an Academy producing good young players, we are well-placed to continue selling at a higher value than we buy. There is no real alternative.

Every single club not supported by silly money, (that in the short-term is not even considered real debt because it is funded by a billionaire), needs to generate more from outgoing players than is spent on incoming players.

Because of JM's wise investment in the Academy we are better placed than many clubs to continue to stay liquid for the forseeable future.

[Royal Lady]

How have Wigan managed to stay where they are for so long? Don't they have similar crowds to us? Genuine question, not trying to have a pop - but we're not the only team in the country with high overheads and yet other teams similar to ours in set-up seem to be able to reach the happy medium of spending wisely and getting in the right players and being able to maintain a prem position, or, in like the West Broms of this world, yo yo between the two top tiers, why can't we do this?

[Archies Volley II]

Believe me, given the choice of watching todays young team being outplayed or, the last one Coppell took up there fairing no better despite having shed loads more experience, I'd swap this evenings armchair for the air fare 2 years ago every time.

Probably the best point on the whole thread.

Despite all the perfectly reasonable observations about the lack of experience in the team chosen yesterday, they actually performed no worse than Coppell's teams did up at St James' - in fact in the 1st half we mostly matched them in style and swagger, until we got in / near the 18 yard box when it all came to nothing. Nothing different to the rest of 2009 there then, when we had a team full of experienced players.

Do people really want to see Bertrand, Pearce, Karacan, Davies and Church all ditched for Armstrong, Bikey, Gunarsson, Harper and NHunt already? It will take time but the experience gained by young players in the struggles, and the information gleaned by the manager in defeat, are invaluable.

The team is on a learning curve and there will be some hard knocks on the way - no conclusions can be drawn after 2 games except that there is a lot to be positive about but even more to work on. Can we not be thankful that, unlike Coppell's team in recent times, it is almost certain that this bunch have it in them to learn and improve?

People just want to see a blend that is all.

Am I dreaming things / just making them up?!?! As I think at various stages over the last couple of weeks we have been told by the club that Armstrong, Harper, Hunt, Marek and Mills are not being considered for strating roles yet due to missing some of pre-season. If I am correct then with Bikey still suspended it is only Gunnar (as Platypuss pointed out) who was left out of the starting 11 "on form"

Have a pop at BR if you disagree with the pre-season policy but don't say he trusts the youngsters more!

I think in a few weeks (when he feels players are ready) we will see a blend of both which is exactly what we all wanted towards the end of last season.

[Royal Lady]

If the likes of Harper and Hunt can be used as subs they can't be completely unfit. I'd be happier hearing BR stating that he'd had to field a slightly inadequate team at the moment due to injuries to the majority of his more experienced players, rather than give the impression that the team he fielded was the team he wanted to field.

Has Armstrong been injured all close season?

[FiNeRaIn]

Agree with schards im afraid, I can't quite understand why something so obvious is beyond a lot of people.
Coppell did an exceptional job with no resources, ridiculous when you think of it. We didn't spend much on that team and it ended up being the best in our history.

We have since sold kitson, doyle, sonko, sidwell( although free), hunt and shorey and lost little and hahnemann on a free transfers also. Think of the wage cut- whats this cutting cloth nonsense? Huge talented players who were a big part of the team on decent wages now gone off the wage budget.

Now, its obvious we are not going to replace those players with expensive signings- I accept that. However, we have spent a small fee on noel hunt and 2 million on matt mills, thats it. Our team consists of youth academy playes on small wages and one or two more senrior pros like marek, rosenior and harper who'd probably be a decent wad. If we need to cut costs after the amounts we took in the prem, we are seriosuly poorly managed contrary to popular belief. Two years of prem tv money, two parachute payments, mass exodus of heavy earners, 18 million+ in outgoing transfer, expensive season tickets ( amongst the highest in the championship) and obviously merchandising,etc We should not be having to cut costs to the point we invest practically nothing in the team. Mills is a good start, but we need a recognised striker and someone capable of playing on the wing as kebe quite frankly is awful. Two signings is not a lot to ask for and we should easily be able to afford 3/4 million on these, if that money is not available the club is not being truthful about the accounts or they are completely incompetant at running them. If Reading FC have no money available for players despite the above, the rest of football might as well give up now without a futue as our brick by brick process clearly did not work.

[Archies Volley II]

How have Wigan managed to stay where they are for so long? Don't they have similar crowds to us? Genuine question, not trying to have a pop - but we're not the only team in the country with high overheads and yet other teams similar to ours in set-up seem to be able to reach the happy medium of spending wisely and getting in the right players and being able to maintain a prem position, or, in like the West Broms of this world, yo yo between the two top tiers, why can't we do this?

Don't really have an answer to how Wigan have managed to do what they have done - but as you say we are not the only team to.... and have then chosen the one who are doing better than us - sure there are plenty with high overheads doing a lot worse than us recently.

[FiNeRaIn]

How have Wigan managed to stay where they are for so long? Don't they have similar crowds to us? Genuine question, not trying to have a pop - but we're not the only team in the country with high overheads and yet other teams similar to ours in set-up seem to be able to reach the happy medium of spending wisely and getting in the right players and being able to maintain a prem position, or, in like the West Broms of this world, yo yo between the two top tiers, why can't we do this?

Don't really have an answer to how Wigan have managed to do what they have done - but as you say we are not the only team to.... and have then chosen the one who are doing better than us - sure there are plenty with high overheads doing a lot worse than us recently.

Wigan are bankrolled by whelan and average nowhere near as high as us- bad example. Burnley, wolves, hull and birmingham though have shown twice as much ambition as we did and two of those average less( birmingham and burnley, maybe even hull)- yet somehow can afford to strengthen their teams and give themselves a fighting chance.

[Royal Rother]

How have Wigan managed to stay where they are for so long? Don't they have similar crowds to us? Genuine question, not trying to have a pop - but we're not the only team in the country with high overheads and yet other teams similar to ours in set-up seem to be able to reach the happy medium of spending wisely and getting in the right players and being able to maintain a prem position, or, in like the West Broms of this world, yo yo between the two top tiers, why can't we do this?

Wigan have Dave Whelan's money.

As for Yo-yos, well Birmingham have a lot more dosh sunk in by their Directors and were going to be completely buggered had they not gone up; don't really know much about WBA's finances - but they have only ever spent more than £1m on a player 6 times, the record being £4.5m, yet they have received more than that amount for player sales on 5 occasions.

In other words their income from player sales will almost certainly have exceeded their transfer fees which underlines the point I was making to Schards. Why have they become a yo-yo club and we haven't? Early days, RL, early days.

[Archies Volley II]

If the likes of Harper and Hunt can be used as subs they can't be completely unfit. I'd be happier hearing BR stating that he'd had to field a slightly inadequate team at the moment due to injuries to the majority of his more experienced players, rather than give the impression that the team he fielded was the team he wanted to field.

Has Armstrong been injured all close season?

There are not completely unfit - hence Harper, Marek, Mills and Armstrong playing in the cup.

Not saying I agree with the selection or the policy necessarily just trying to get some perspective by pointing out what I believe we have been told.

Would be poor management in my opinion to go to Newcastle with inexerienced players and say publicly that don't even want to be playing them but have no choice. I know Harry Rednapp would do that but that doesn't it right!

Armstrong was missing for some of pre-season but I cannot remember right now for how much. I believe as you suggest he was still recovering from the injury he had at the end of last season.

[Royal Lady]

How have Wigan managed to stay where they are for so long? Don't they have similar crowds to us? Genuine question, not trying to have a pop - but we're not the only team in the country with high overheads and yet other teams similar to ours in set-up seem to be able to reach the happy medium of spending wisely and getting in the right players and being able to maintain a prem position, or, in like the West Broms of this world, yo yo between the two top tiers, why can't we do this?

Don't really have an answer to how Wigan have managed to do what they have done - but as you say we are not the only team to.... and have then chosen the one who are doing better than us - sure there are plenty with high overheads doing a lot worse than us recently.

Wigan are bankrolled by whelan and average nowhere near as high as us- bad example. Burnley, wolves, hull and birmingham though have shown twice as much ambition as we did and two of those average less( birmingham and burnley, maybe even hull)- yet somehow can afford to strengthen their teams and give themselves a fighting chance.

I was trying to think of a small-ish team who has managed to maintain a position in the Prem for more than 2/3 years running and just thought of Wigan.

[Royal Lady]

If the likes of Harper and Hunt can be used as subs they can't be completely unfit. I'd be happier hearing BR stating that he'd had to field a slightly inadequate team at the moment due to injuries to the majority of his more experienced players, rather than give the impression that the team he fielded was the team he wanted to field.

Has Armstrong been injured all close season?

There are not completely unfit - hence Harper, Marek, Mills and Armstrong playing in the cup.

Not saying I agree with the selection or the policy necessarily just trying to get some perspective by pointing out what I believe we have been told.

Would be poor management in my opinion to go to Newcastle with inexerienced players and say publicly that don't even want to be playing them but have no choice. I know Harry Rednapp would do that but that doesn't it right!

Armstrong was missing for some of pre-season but I cannot remember right now for how much. I believe as you suggest he was still recovering from the injury he had at the end of last season.

My point is, it might be better to admit this AFTER the result, I didn't mean before the game - otherwise one gets the impression that the team BR is fielding is the team he wholeheartedly WANTS to field and if that were correct it is a real worry, to me at least. If those 4 players can play in the cup, there's no reason surely why they couldn't have started and then subbed after an hour or something if they were struggling...

[PEARCEY]

The single most depressing thing about the start of this season is Woodcote Royal's full backing of Rodgers. This is the man who laughed at the suggestion that we wouldn't be selling out the existing ground a couple of years back and demanded the extention go ahead. This is the man who mocked the suggestion that last season may be dull, this is the man who's number one hate figure is the most successful manager in the club's history, who broke the points record in winning the championship and took a side built on the cheap to 8th in the premiership with no significant investment.

When the man who has a track record of being 100% wrong on absolutely everything thinks we are moving in the right direction, it's time for the alarm bells to start ringing. Come on Woodcote, take one for the team and start slagging Rodgers off - it's the only hope.

I forgot to log on before reading this thread this morning but now that I have, it's a relief to see that my ignore settings survived our transfer to a new server.

If only all posters were obliged to supply their mental age and I could ignore everyone under five............................

I'm not going down the path of Schards#2 as some of your comments are fair enough but to say the last two seasons have been "abject failure" is unreasonable. We finished 4th last season. So that does that mean if we finish 4th or lower this season BR should be sacked for similar abject failure?
I can see what Rodgers is trying to do but he seems in a hurry to put an immediate stamp on this side rather than a gradual evolution. As some of us are suggesting there needs to be a blend of experience and youth in the side so that the youngsters have pros to guide them along the way.
Now it may be that Harper, NHunt and Matejovsky are not fully fit. If so then yesterdays selection can be more understood although I still thought the formation was wrong.