The perspective thread.

[Arch]

LOL at everyone.
What a bunch of pussies.
We lost to Newcastle. Expect it. Accept it. Move on. Thats it.
We played a load of youngsters, because thats the model we've adopted, and no-one is going to abandon that model after two games.

I know we've been spoilt by success, but, FFS, there is nothing less edifying than someone who cries after a defeat. Man up.

Quit your whining, will you.

[Ian Royal]

TBF I'm not bothered what he did at Watford - I'll give him this season to do something of note here.

Then why comment? Nice sidestep of acknowledging your comment was clueless and so very generous of you to say he can have a season to see what he can do.

How long did he have at Watford before "turning them around"? A season to do something spectacular here is pretty generous in that case I'd say!

Or just as short-termist as I would expect from you.

1 season to do something spectacular. That is truely idiotic.

[strap]

Newcastle's bench didn't cost anything?

I thought Xisco was £5-6m alone wasn't he?

Couldn't find a reference for a fee for Xisco, ditto Ryan Taylor and Kadar, so just noted them as "Signed", (a la Soccerbase). So the figures I've used really are pretty conservative. If Ryan Taylor was 2.2M or more then their starting XI cost was a nice round £40M. I wonder if that's the most expensive 2nd tier starting XI ever?

I reckon it has to be!

God knows if this site is realiable or not but they have Xisco at just over £5m:

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/spiel ... daten.html

Cheers Arch, it'll do for me!

[Royal Rother]

I'm pretty sure when he came on yesterday the commentator said £5.5m.

[Gordons Cumming]

It's strange, but whenever I see a post from Sir Dodger Royal I want to hit something..............

[Archies Volley II]

I'm pretty sure when he came on yesterday the commentator said £5.5m.

Yep - thats were I got it from - I don't have a comprehensive knowledge of all transfer fees! Just remember the commentator saying something about trying to prove he was not a £5/6m flop

[Victor Meldrew]

As this is a perspective topic can I just add that Newcastle were prior to the game perceived both here and elsewhere to be a club in total disarray.
They have lost 9 players of varying first team experience plus the 10th (Duff)not picked as he is about to leave.
Now those that believe we are on the right track are suggesting that Newcastle are promotion favourites so we shouldn't feel any sense of dismay about yesterday's showing.

What was so clear to me about yesterday was that we were a group of players running about a lot with very little shape and it was us that looked in disarray.
The centre-backs up against two big but slow strikers didn't look good enough.
Enough has been said about Rosenior-Fulham knew what they were doing in not wanting to hold on to him.
Kebe-as somebody already said,50 games for us and we still ask why?
Long-not suited to the 4-5-1 as he just doesn't have the strength or skill to play the holding striker role.

Rodgers worked a small miracle at Watford by getting so much more out of players with ability,e.g. McAnuff,Smith,Priskin etc but at the moment our strategy looks to be not to follow that approach and re-invigorate the likes of Marek and Harper who have ability but underachieved last season.
Just throwing in a load of enthusiastic but inexperienced younger players (BTW they are not 16 year-olds) with unknown ability strikes me as a naiive approach.
A hold-up striker and a calm play-maker plus preferrably a pacey winger offering more than pace alone are all essential if we are to make any sort of upper table show IMHO this season and maybe the likes of Vokes or Raziak plus Campbell-Rice and a rebirth of either Harper or Marek could help us towards that goal.
For those that worry so much about our finances there's not too much bank-breaking amongst those is there?

[Royal Lady]

^ agreed with Victor Meldrew wholeheartedly.

And Ian, I said I'd give him a season because BR appeared to turn everyting around at Watford according to you and Zac in less than half a season, with no transfer window iirc, so giving him a season to work wonders with this team is quite realistic in my eyes.

[SteveRoyal]

OK, so a team with 6 players under the age of 22, and 4 academy graduates, loses against a team which has 4 former England internationals, 1 former england youth striker, 1 current england youth striker, 1 spanish U21 fullback, 2 Argentinian internationals, and have a former chelsea first teamer on the bench.

Is anyone really that bloody suprised????

We all said when Rodgers was appointed that it would take time and PATIENCE. He is trying to instill a new footballing ethos into the team. In this team he is introducing a number of talented, yet inexperienced, youngsters. The fact that we didn't look out of place in the first half today against a team possesing such experience and quality is fantastic TBH. It will take time for this team to come good. We all know that. One only has to look at Rodgers' record at Watford to understand the process that this team will go through in the next few months.

We all cried out for local players to get their chance, and a result like this was always likely to happen. But they will learn from this experience, as will Rodgers, who will now understand what we need to do in the last weeks of the Transfer Window. We will only come back stronger, and eventually we should come good, however until then we must give Rodgers the benefit of the doubt.

Calm down, and get some bleedin perspective.

+1

[SteveRoyal]

What if they dont 'come good'?

Whats plan B?

Plan B? Play the experienced ones.
Federici; Rosenior, Bikey, Ingi, Armstrong; Harper, Marek, Gunarsson; Hunt, ... uhh, and ... uhm.

[Snowball]

The "Newcastle are a Class Act" versus "Newcastle are in Disarray"

isn't exclusive.

There wasn't a player in that starting side that wouldn't improve the Reading squad.

Barton is an animal but still a very, very good midfielder, Alan Smith is tenacious, tough
(a bit dirty, but) and has played for top top clubs (and England Seniors). If he was on Reading's
books he be the first player on the team-sheet, surely. Nolan would get in our first 11.

They are seriously-good individuals but the club has been all over the place, got relegated
and YES they could have gone straight through this division, might still have some horrible
financial issues to contend with.

Had they lost 2-0 or 3-0 at West Brom a week or so ago then the skids might have really
been under them, but they got 1-1 at the favourites for this league.

But they appeared up for it, motivated, aggressive, committed in the tackle. Remember THEY PLAYED WELL.

My view of them has changed somewhat precisely because they've had a good start. I don't think there's any poor logic in that.

[Ian Royal]

^ agreed with Victor Meldrew wholeheartedly.

And Ian, I said I'd give him a season because BR appeared to turn everyting around at Watford according to you and Zac in less than half a season, with no transfer window iirc, so giving him a season to work wonders with this team is quite realistic in my eyes.

Temporary change in form at one club in less than a season =/= doing something spectacular at another club in one season.

Thankfully, unless he fecks up royally and we're in a terrible relegation battle he'll get the three season's he's contracted for. But that's because SJM has more of a clue than you.

[Snowball]

In the end it was 3-0, a thumping but the second goal was a silly one which
simply shouldn't have happened and the handball/penalty was a bit unlucky.

True they had other chances but Feds did well enough.

Smith should have gone off and we didn't get any favours from the ref.

So, at a place we have never done well, against a side second favourites to win the league
we got a bit of a tonking.

Wolves lost 3-0 to us AT HOME, then lost 1-0 to us away. They were promoted.

Burnley lost 3-1 to us. They were promoted.

Birmingham lost 3-1 to us at home. They were promoted.


It's one result, not a good one, but let's look at the squad after 6-10 games, not after two.

[rg6royal]

We lost at Newcastle. Big deal...roll on Tuesday night...

[cmonurz]

In the end it was 3-0, a thumping but the second goal was a silly one which
simply shouldn't have happened and the handball/penalty was a bit unlucky.

True they had other chances but Feds did well enough.

Smith should have gone off and we didn't get any favours from the ref.

So, at a place we have never done well, against a side second favourites to win the league
we got a bit of a tonking.

Wolves lost 3-0 to us AT HOME, then lost 1-0 to us away. They were promoted.

Burnley lost 3-1 to us. They were promoted.

Birmingham lost 3-1 to us at home. They were promoted.


It's one result, not a good one, but let's look at the squad after 6-10 games, not after two.

Although tbf, we are the only team that seems to find Forest's defence completely inpenetrable.

[leon]

As this is a perspective topic can I just add that Newcastle were prior to the game perceived both here and elsewhere to be a club in total disarray.
They have lost 9 players of varying first team experience plus the 10th (Duff)not picked as he is about to leave.
Now those that believe we are on the right track are suggesting that Newcastle are promotion favourites so we shouldn't feel any sense of dismay about yesterday's showing.

What was so clear to me about yesterday was that we were a group of players running about a lot with very little shape and it was us that looked in disarray.
The centre-backs up against two big but slow strikers didn't look good enough.
Enough has been said about Rosenior-Fulham knew what they were doing in not wanting to hold on to him.
Kebe-as somebody already said,50 games for us and we still ask why?
Long-not suited to the 4-5-1 as he just doesn't have the strength or skill to play the holding striker role.

Rodgers worked a small miracle at Watford by getting so much more out of players with ability,e.g. McAnuff,Smith,Priskin etc but at the moment our strategy looks to be not to follow that approach and re-invigorate the likes of Marek and Harper who have ability but underachieved last season.
Just throwing in a load of enthusiastic but inexperienced younger players (BTW they are not 16 year-olds) with unknown ability strikes me as a naiive approach.
A hold-up striker and a calm play-maker plus preferrably a pacey winger offering more than pace alone are all essential if we are to make any sort of upper table show IMHO this season and maybe the likes of Vokes or Raziak plus Campbell-Rice and a rebirth of either Harper or Marek could help us towards that goal.
For those that worry so much about our finances there's not too much bank-breaking amongst those is there?

Absolutely got it spot on. Use the kids, but maxmise the experience we have.

[Royal Lady]

^ agreed with Victor Meldrew wholeheartedly.

And Ian, I said I'd give him a season because BR appeared to turn everyting around at Watford according to you and Zac in less than half a season, with no transfer window iirc, so giving him a season to work wonders with this team is quite realistic in my eyes.

Temporary change in form at one club in less than a season =/= doing something spectacular at another club in one season.

Thankfully, unless he fecks up royally and we're in a terrible relegation battle he'll get the three season's he's contracted for. But that's because SJM has more of a clue than you.

I think you misunderstand me - I'll be giving him a season to prove his worth, if he doesn't deliver I'll probably spend the following two moaning about him.

[RobRoyal]

and the handball/penalty was a bit unlucky.

Bless you, it's like self-parody. It wasn't really unlucky, was it? It was startlingly incompetent. If it had been one of our back four I would have found it almost unforgivable. As it is, it was still extremely annoying.

[papereyes]

Newcastle's bench didn't cost anything?

I thought Xisco was £5-6m alone wasn't he?

Couldn't find a reference for a fee for Xisco, ditto Ryan Taylor and Kadar, so just noted them as "Signed", (a la Soccerbase). So the figures I've used really are pretty conservative. If Ryan Taylor was 2.2M or more then their starting XI cost was a nice round £40M. I wonder if that's the most expensive 2nd tier starting XI ever?

Xisco was a pretty hefty sum iirc. Wiki puts it at £5.7 million.

As for the game - first 30 minutes were good. Newcastle fan thought we looked dangerous but needed something extra up front. If I were to give it a turning point, it was the Smith second booking that wasn't. We'd applied a lot of pressure and kept the ball well for a decent spell and both Smith and Barton put in some thunderous tackles to break up our game. After that, Newcastle upped their game and we looked like we'd been giving a bitchslapping by Hattie Jacques.

We need one or two experienced players in there to pull up the youngsters. They might come good, one or two will, one or two won't. But someone who has already come good and will lead by example or by simply his presence will make such a difference.

[Snowball]

and the handball/penalty was a bit unlucky.

Bless you, it's like self-parody. It wasn't really unlucky, was it? It was startlingly incompetent. If it had been one of our back four I would have found it almost unforgivable. As it is, it was still extremely annoying.

A 22 year old striker with less than forty starts in his career has run back fifty yards
and is doing "more than his job" (where is the full back?) and, well away from goal,
he jumps to head the ball away, misses, and the ball strikes his hand.

Yes, we'd've wanted a penalty if the positions were reversed, but it IS IMO "unlucky"

He might not have done so well covering for poor defending
He might have headed it,
It might have missed his hand.


Compare THAT "error" to the shambles that led to the second goal