The perspective thread.

[Stranded]

and the handball/penalty was a bit unlucky.

Bless you, it's like self-parody. It wasn't really unlucky, was it? It was startlingly incompetent. If it had been one of our back four I would have found it almost unforgivable. As it is, it was still extremely annoying.

A 22 year old striker with less than forty starts in his career has run back fifty yards
and is doing "more than his job" (where is the full back?) and, well away from goal,
he jumps to head the ball away, misses, and the ball strikes his hand.
Yes, we'd've wanted a penalty if the positions were reversed, but it IS IMO "unlucky"

He might not have done so well covering for poor defending
He might have headed it,
It might have missed his hand.


Compare THAT "error" to the shambles that led to the second goal

It was a handball direct from a corner - he was doing his job by tracking the player and handled it (the full back was doing his job, being on the post) - I would agree it's unlucky but you seem to have invented a situation there that didn't happen.

[Ian Royal]

I agree with snowball's conclusions if not his analysis. You see them given fairly regularly, but I don't think it should have been a penalty.

If it had been the other way around, I'd have been saying it was a pretty soft penalty for us to get and harsh on the other team when they're already 2-0 down.

[Royal With Cheese]

If it had been the other way around, I'd have been saying it was a pretty soft penalty for us to get and harsh on the other team when they're already 2-0 down.

That's very generous of you Ian.

[Royal Lady]

I agree with snowball's conclusions if not his analysis. You see them given fairly regularly, but I don't think it should have been a penalty.
If it had been the other way around, I'd have been saying it was a pretty soft penalty for us to get and harsh on the other team when they're already 2-0 down.

In another thread "It wasn't a penalty in a million years".

[Alan Partridge]

I agree with snowball's conclusions if not his analysis. You see them given fairly regularly, but I don't think it should have been a penalty.

If it had been the other way around, I'd have been saying it was a pretty soft penalty for us to get and harsh on the other team when they're already 2-0 down.

Only me that isn't as bitter as a pint of John Smiths? Thought the referee was excellent throughout, one of the better performances I've seen. Tried to let the game flow, rightly booked smith and Barton,rightly didn't send Smith off for what at worst a challenge caused by his own momentum, no malice at all, and rightly gave a penalty for a blatant handball.

[Archies Volley II]

It was a handball direct from a corner - he was doing his job by tracking the player and handled it (the full back was doing his job, being on the post) - I would agree it's unlucky but you seem to have invented a situation there that didn't happen.

Exactly Standard - it was direct from a corner - he was meant to be back there marking a man while the full back was on post - he had not tracked back "doing more than his job" You really wonder if some people here even saw/watched the game!

The main reason it hit his hand rather than his head is that he made a poor job of marking his man and let him peel away beyond the far post - hence he was trying to get back close to his man he was running underneath the flight of the ball trying to jugde the position of the ball and look to see where his man was at the same time and therefore made a complete mess of jumping to head the ball clear.

The above is obviously harsh on Long and I would not really blame him much - people loose their man and miss headers like that often - it was just unlucky that a) the ball hit his hand and b) the lino saw it. If he had missed it completely the chances are the Newcastle player would have had little time to react and nothing would have come of it. However, for people to suggest that Long did nothing wrong and should actually be applauded for being their in the first place is just plain wrong.

[brendywendy]

I agree with snowball's conclusions if not his analysis. You see them given fairly regularly, but I don't think it should have been a penalty.

If it had been the other way around, I'd have been saying it was a pretty soft penalty for us to get and harsh on the other team when they're already 2-0 down.

Only me that isn't as bitter as a pint of John Smiths? Thought the referee was excellent throughout, one of the better performances I've seen. Tried to let the game flow, rightly booked smith and Barton,rightly didn't send Smith off for what at worst a challenge caused by his own momentum, no malice at all, and rightly gave a penalty for a blatant handball.

replays showed a cynical leaving in of his knee right into the lads thigh

[Alan Partridge]

I agree with snowball's conclusions if not his analysis. You see them given fairly regularly, but I don't think it should have been a penalty.

If it had been the other way around, I'd have been saying it was a pretty soft penalty for us to get and harsh on the other team when they're already 2-0 down.

Only me that isn't as bitter as a pint of John Smiths? Thought the referee was excellent throughout, one of the better performances I've seen. Tried to let the game flow, rightly booked smith and Barton,rightly didn't send Smith off for what at worst a challenge caused by his own momentum, no malice at all, and rightly gave a penalty for a blatant handball.

replays showed a cynical leaving in of his knee right into the lads thigh

Behave yourself.

I watched it numerous times, his eyes solely on the ball which was there to be won, Karacan just touched it before Smith got there and that was it. No studs showing, no malice, a simple collision which in all honesty the referee got spot on. Had Smith done anything else wrong he'd have gone. 20 seconds or so after the first incident the referee did the right thing imo. If that hd been our player sent off for that you lot on here would have screamed injustice.

[RobRoyal]

and the handball/penalty was a bit unlucky.

Bless you, it's like self-parody. It wasn't really unlucky, was it? It was startlingly incompetent. If it had been one of our back four I would have found it almost unforgivable. As it is, it was still extremely annoying.

A 22 year old striker with less than forty starts in his career has run back fifty yards
and is doing "more than his job" (where is the full back?) and, well away from goal,
he jumps to head the ball away, misses, and the ball strikes his hand.

Yes, we'd've wanted a penalty if the positions were reversed, but it IS IMO "unlucky"

He might not have done so well covering for poor defending
He might have headed it,
It might have missed his hand.

Sorry, how do a) Shane Long's age b) the number of starts he's made have any bearing on whether it is or isn't a piece of incompetence? You seem to think I have a problem with Long being back there to defend. I certainly don't, I would just like him to defend properly. "He might have headed it" indeed. Yes, in fact he bloody should. Maybe he might have had a better chance of the ball missing his hand if he hadn't flung his hand in the air and in the path of the ball?

The above is obviously harsh on Long and I would not really blame him much - people loose their man and miss headers like that often - it was just unlucky that a) the ball hit his hand and b) the lino saw it. .

Really, I wonder what defines luck... If you handball it in the box and the lino sees, you're unlucky? It was a clear-cut penalty that came from a really sloppy piece of defending. I'm not arguing for a minute that it was the worst piece of defending in the game - if only - but there's no excuse for it.

[brendywendy]

Only me that isn't as bitter as a pint of John Smiths? Thought the referee was excellent throughout, one of the better performances I've seen. Tried to let the game flow, rightly booked smith and Barton,rightly didn't send Smith off for what at worst a challenge caused by his own momentum, no malice at all, and rightly gave a penalty for a blatant handball.

replays showed a cynical leaving in of his knee right into the lads thigh

Behave yourself.

I watched it numerous times, his eyes solely on the ball which was there to be won, Karacan just touched it before Smith got there and that was it. No studs showing, no malice, a simple collision which in all honesty the referee got spot on. Had Smith done anything else wrong he'd have gone. 20 seconds or so after the first incident the referee did the right thing imo. If that hd been our player sent off for that you lot on here would have screamed injustice.

what i watched showed him drop his knee just like hunty did
-so you are right.............accidental

[Archies Volley II]

The above is obviously harsh on Long and I would not really blame him much - people loose their man and miss headers like that often - it was just unlucky that a) the ball hit his hand and b) the lino saw it. .

Really, I wonder what defines luck... If you handball it in the box and the lino sees, you're unlucky? It was a clear-cut penalty that came from a really sloppy piece of defending. I'm not arguing for a minute that it was the worst piece of defending in the game - if only - but there's no excuse for it.

I agree it was a pen - and as I said above it was sloppy defending to loose his man for a second which meant he miss judged the ball/his jump as he was trying to look where his man had gone at the same time as clear the ball - however, I think he was unlucky as the act of loosing your man by a yard at a corner probably happens to at least one player on every corner in a game - just normally the ball does not go to that man so it is rarely noticed - also as I said above if Long had missed the ball completely there was not really obvious danger so he probably would have got away with it and little, if anything, would have been said.

My point about the lino was that the ref did not see it and only gave it cause the lino did and more often than not in my experience the lino will choose to leave it up to the ref!

Anyway, my post was really directed at snowball (but due to poor editing when not being able to quote more than 3 posts this may been lost - sorry!) and was intended to back up Standard in his assesment that snowball had invented a situtation were Long was actually doing well to be running back and covering for a missing fullback as if it was open play

As I say I agree with you - it had to be a pen but to disagree with you one that I feel was due a small common mistake (lossing his man) which would more often than not in a game not be punished (as the ball would miss everything) or even noticed.

[Maguire]

well away from goal, he jumps to head the ball away, misses, and the ball strikes his hand.

Yes, we'd've wanted a penalty if the positions were reversed, but it IS IMO "unlucky"

He might not have done so well covering for poor defending
He might have headed it,
It might have missed his hand.

LOL at all that!

He's back defending a corner, totally misses the header and gives away a nailed on penalty like a massive spastic. What's to argue about? There's just no good in it at all.

Overall we copped a beating from a better side. No arguments at all. They played okay in the first half but then got rinsed. Some promising signs but in the short term it's clear that our attacking edge is severely blunted. Striker please.

[Blue and White Toucan]

This is getting boring now.....

Smith did not deserve to be sent off,
Long messed up for the penalty,
We do not have a commanding CB who can organise the defense,
We do not have a decent array of strikers to call on,
Newcastle were much better that us,
There now lets move on shall we......................

[cmonurz]

What Maguire said.

He jumped, missed the ball with his massive head, and left his hurling arm skyward.

He messed up.

[papereyes]

This is getting boring now.....

Smith did not deserve to be sent off,
Long messed up for the penalty,
We do not have a commanding CB who can organise the defense,
We do not have a decent array of strikers to call on,
Newcastle were much better that us,
There now lets move on shall we......................

I hope the club don't just 'move on' and take the time to address the three of the five problems there that they can directly address.

[CMRoyal]

What Maguire said.

He jumped, missed the ball with his massive head, and left his hurling arm skyward.

He messed up.

Yep. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he forgot where he was for a second. He does things like that quite often, but usually in innocuous areas of the pitch. Is it really true that Shane had run back forty yards to cover? I thought he was back defending a corner. It's his job, but unfortunately another that he does with much less efficiency than Doyler.

[brendywendy]

Yep. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he forgot where he was for a second. He does things like that quite often, but usually in innocuous areas of the pitch

CM royal in mind reading shocker


the next derren brown?

[CMRoyal]

Yep. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he forgot where he was for a second. He does things like that quite often, but usually in innocuous areas of the pitch

CM royal in mind reading shocker


the next derren brown?

I meant he handles the ball or nudges players in innocuous areas of the pitch. Full marks for sarcasm though!

[brendywendy]

hoorah!














soz!

[Gordons Cumming]

We do not have a commanding CB who can organise the defense,

We have 2.

One was on the bench, the other was at home recovering from injury.