New Signings ?

[PEARCEY]

Expect 3 signings on transfer deadline day.

Are we allowed three more players on loan then?

[Royal Rother]

Are we much different terms of support, infastucture, fan base etc etc to Hull City??

I just ask the question as after there first season in the Prem they have added Hunt for £3million ish and now seem to be bidding £12million for a player!?!?!?!

I haven't researched it before someone comes in with facts but on the face of it we do really seem to lack any ambition, and to be honest we always have!!!!

We do it the 'Reading way'

The amount a business is prepared to get itself into debt chasing its dream IS NOT a measure of its ambition.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Are we much different terms of support, infastucture, fan base etc etc to Hull City??

I just ask the question as after there first season in the Prem they have added Hunt for £3million ish and now seem to be bidding £12million for a player!?!?!?!

Hull get a lot more tv money that we did.

I haven't researched it before someone comes in with facts...

heaven forbid

[PEARCEY]

Are we much different terms of support, infastucture, fan base etc etc to Hull City??

I just ask the question as after there first season in the Prem they have added Hunt for £3million ish and now seem to be bidding £12million for a player!?!?!?!

Hull get a lot more tv money that we did.

I haven't researched it before someone comes in with facts...

heaven forbid

How come Hull get much more money? Is the Sky deal that much better now?

[Maguire]

Here's a reply I posted to a similar question a couple of months ago.

23 League games last season, average crowd 19,000, average ticket price £20 generates less than £9m income. Add in say £3m from Sky money, £1m of sundry revenues gives £13m.

Doyle and Hunt were supposed to be on circa £20k pw = £2.5m (incl Employers NIC costs)

If we had another 18 players who could be considered 1st team squad on an average of £7k pw that would give another £6.7m.

Fringe / young players may have taken a conservative net (after loan contributions) £1m.

Coppell and the coaching staff would have taken approx £2m I guess.

Other administrative wages costs can reasonably be estimated as £2m.

It is safe to assume that the other costs of running the club would have been an absolute minimum of £10m (as shown above they were in 2008 17.4, 2007 13.9, 2006 8.2, 2005 6.9, 2004 6.0)

So, adding up the above we have:

Income of £13m.
Total Wages of £14.2m.
Other costs of £10m.

Oh, look, a loss of £11m - good job we had that parachute payment isn't it?

Player trading made us a healthy profit but it would be sensible if that were left in the coffers for steady investment should it be required in the next 2 or 3 years. Some might prefer us to have blown it all last season, or indeed this close season, but that would be a gamble and it is definitely better to keep it in reserve for emergencies. JM has taken NOTHING out for many years if I recall, so no reason to think he will have started now.

I have no special knowledge of RFC but I think these numbers are reasonable and might just help open a few eyes - (hang on a sec, who am I kidding?). Anyway, do correct me if I've got something obviously wrong.

Anyway I'm sure the new manager will respect the fact that he can have a decent budget for new players but that will have to come from player sales - sensible management of a stable business.

Edit: Looking at this afresh I do suspect I have been a little generous on the income and a little light on the costs.

Just realised I forgot about Depreciation - That's another £7m onto the costs!!

What about merchandising, advertising, sponsorship, corporate, and so on - is that really only 1m a year? I'd imagine it's somewhat higher.

[Royal Spangle]

we will need to buy someone soon or there will be no players left Mr Mad says he wants to get back to the prem then sells the players who are going to get him there!

[Royal Rother]

Maguire, probably should be a bit more. Conversely, I suspect the average ticket price of £20 is a bit generous, and Doyle / Hunt were probably on a touch more than £20k pw and £7k pw is possibly a bit low for the "other" squad players when you consider they included Marcus, Murty, Lita, Bikey, Ingi, Rosenior, Marek, all of whom would probably have been on circa £15k+...

Swings and roundabouts I expect.

[prostak]

Of this much I am now convinced; the great majority of those demanding to know what Madejski's done with OUR money, if they have any insight into the running of a business whatsoever, have gained this through Football Manager. And the remainder I hold personally responsible for the current economic crash.

[Royal Rother]

[floyd__streete]

There is only one answer to this conundrum then: two more relegations please.

[Royalee]

Of this much I am now convinced; the great majority of those demanding to know what Madejski's done with OUR money, if they have any insight into the running of a business whatsoever, have gained this through Football Manager. And the remainder I hold personally responsible for the current economic crash.

Nice one

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Here's a reply I posted to a similar question a couple of months ago.

23 League games last season, average crowd 19,000, average ticket price £20 generates less than £9m income. Add in say £3m from Sky money, £1m of sundry revenues gives £13m.

Doyle and Hunt were supposed to be on circa £20k pw = £2.5m (incl Employers NIC costs)

If we had another 18 players who could be considered 1st team squad on an average of £7k pw that would give another £6.7m.

Fringe / young players may have taken a conservative net (after loan contributions) £1m.

Coppell and the coaching staff would have taken approx £2m I guess.

Other administrative wages costs can reasonably be estimated as £2m.

It is safe to assume that the other costs of running the club would have been an absolute minimum of £10m (as shown above they were in 2008 17.4, 2007 13.9, 2006 8.2, 2005 6.9, 2004 6.0)

So, adding up the above we have:

Income of £13m.
Total Wages of £14.2m.
Other costs of £10m.

Oh, look, a loss of £11m - good job we had that parachute payment isn't it?

Player trading made us a healthy profit but it would be sensible if that were left in the coffers for steady investment should it be required in the next 2 or 3 years. Some might prefer us to have blown it all last season, or indeed this close season, but that would be a gamble and it is definitely better to keep it in reserve for emergencies. JM has taken NOTHING out for many years if I recall, so no reason to think he will have started now.

I have no special knowledge of RFC but I think these numbers are reasonable and might just help open a few eyes - (hang on a sec, who am I kidding?). Anyway, do correct me if I've got something obviously wrong.

Anyway I'm sure the new manager will respect the fact that he can have a decent budget for new players but that will have to come from player sales - sensible management of a stable business.

Edit: Looking at this afresh I do suspect I have been a little generous on the income and a little light on the costs.

Just realised I forgot about Depreciation - That's another £7m onto the costs!!

What about merchandising, advertising, sponsorship, corporate, and so on - is that really only 1m a year? I'd imagine it's somewhat higher.

Not to mention 2 years of Prem Sky money, whilst investing fck all to get there. and to stay there come to think of it. (we tried to sign players in summer 2006 remember, but failed) Plus the difference in prize money from 8th to 17th was about £5m+ in 2007. (Bonus Money?) Extra TV money from 2 games against Man Utd, as well as a share of 100,000 paying customers at £30 a pop for that tie. Average gates going from 15k - 22k in the space of a couple of months in 2005. (More Bonus Money?)

Yes we lost money last season alone, but on the back of a gravy train beyond the clubs dreams from 2005-2008.

[Royal Rother]

In the 3 years ended June 2008 we made a total profit of circa £6m.

That is after all the Sky money has been included, after the prize money, after all the increased revenues from any area you care to mention - it was NOT a gravy train and it is ridiculously naive to consider it so.

In the PL, your Income goes up, and so do your costs and wages. Wages alone went up by circa £20m in the PL. That's most of the Sky money gone in one fell swoop.

Only clubs who have a profile that generates massive sales of merchandise across the world enjoy any kind of gravy train.

[Deathy]

Of this much I am now convinced; the great majority of those demanding to know what Madejski's done with OUR money, if they have any insight into the running of a business whatsoever, have gained this through Football Manager. And the remainder I hold personally responsible for the current economic crash.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

In the 3 years ended June 2008 we made a total profit of circa £6m.

Not heard of creative accounting?

Im not having a dig RR, but take that £6m with a pinch of salt.

[Wycombe Royal]

In the 3 years ended June 2008 we made a total profit of circa £6m.

Not heard of creative accounting?

You mean the illegal proactice? It isn't to get away with nowadays due to IAS's and IFRS's that are in place and that have been more stringent since some of the recent accounting scandals. Plus all the accounts are audited to enure they give a fair and true view of the company.

I'm not saying it can't happen but people talk about creative accounting like it is commonplace when it so obviously isn't (and yes I am an accountant).

[Royalwaster]

In the 3 years ended June 2008 we made a total profit of circa £6m.

That is after all the Sky money has been included, after the prize money, after all the increased revenues from any area you care to mention - it was NOT a gravy train and it is ridiculously naive to consider it so.

In the PL, your Income goes up, and so do your costs and wages. Wages alone went up by circa £20m in the PL. That's most of the Sky money gone in one fell swoop.

Only clubs who have a profile that generates massive sales of merchandise across the world enjoy any kind of gravy train.

With those figures I really don't understand how clubs like Wigan survive in the Prem - are they massively in debt and increasingly so every year? Because it seems like we spent hardly anything, didn't do the Harry Redknapp style of getting players on big salaries for free and yet still ended hardly making any money.

[West Stand Flash]

Stop with all this guessing cr@p, all you need to know is Madejski is pocketing every penny he can get, whilst he lets our club head one way. To League 1.

Depressing season ahead.

[Vision]

Yes we lost money last season alone, but on the back of a gravy train beyond the clubs dreams from 2005-2008.

2005/06 the most successful season in the club's history with virtual full houses from Xmas onwards we lost nearly £7m with a wage bill of £14.2m.

The accounts show a profit of roughly the same amount for the following 2 Premiership seasons with a wage bill of around 31m for 60/07 and 35m for 07/08. So over those 3 seasons we made a profit of around £6m which is hardly a gravy train given some of the figures people bandy about.

No published accounts for last season yet but if we crudely take the 40% wage cut as across the board then that would put us at 21m on wages alone. Losing 3 or 4 of the big earners (Shorey,Sonko,Kitson,Little) would at best take that figure down to around 18/19m i would reckon.

So in purely crude terms if in 05/06 we lost 7m with a 14m wage bill then with a likely wage bill of 18m then we would be staring at 11m loss under similiar circumstances. Hello Parachute payments!

[Vision]

In the 3 years ended June 2008 we made a total profit of circa £6m.

That is after all the Sky money has been included, after the prize money, after all the increased revenues from any area you care to mention - it was NOT a gravy train and it is ridiculously naive to consider it so.

In the PL, your Income goes up, and so do your costs and wages. Wages alone went up by circa £20m in the PL. That's most of the Sky money gone in one fell swoop.

Only clubs who have a profile that generates massive sales of merchandise across the world enjoy any kind of gravy train.

With those figures I really don't understand how clubs like Wigan survive in the Prem - are they massively in debt and increasingly so every year? Because it seems like we spent hardly anything, didn't do the Harry Redknapp style of getting players on big salaries for free and yet still ended hardly making any money.

Because they have a wealthy benefactor for whom making the football club a viable self sufficient business isn't part of his agenda unlike ours.


How many Premiership clubs make any profit? Hardly any despite the millions being pumped into the game at the highest level. The more money on offer the more clubs pay in order to collect the next instalment. For some I'm sure thats the ideal but whether we like it or not that is not and has never meant to be the case with us. It means that if we make the Premiership then we are always going to be at a disadvantage financially. Personally I'm more than happy with that approach but I understand why others aren't