4-4-2 or 4-3-3

[Hoop Blah]

How many goals are scored from the centre of midfield? I can tell you that is not very many.

All depends on how you play.

I'm sure Chelsea or Liverpool fans would disagree that very few goals are scored from central midfield!

For a similar comparison closer to home, look at Swansea last season. Gomez scored 12, and Bodde 7 (from only 17 games). Surprisingly Leon Britton didn't notch in the league though.

We need the right players playing to make any formation work, at the moment we haven't got the right players in the squad to make any formation a formidable attacking force.

[Dirk Gently]

All I was trying to do was make the point... that there are 2 ways (minimum!) of playing a 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 formation.

Indeed, and specifically BR's preferred method of playing 4-3-3 is actually as a 4-2-3-1, so there are two holding/distributing midfield players plus two wide players and also a central attacking midfielder. So when going forward this is meant to be a 4-2-4.

In practice, though, and certainly at Newcastle & Swansea, where the two holding midfielders were getting over-run, we were never, ever getting the 4 forward and we only ever seemed to have 1 player up front - alone and outnumbered!

[leon]

We'll be fine playing 4-3-3 when we've signed the players we're after, Marek's included and we've sent Kebe back to the circus where he belongs.

So we need to sign more players to fit the new system that our current players can't? Is that why we're selling all our experienced players?

If anything our most experienced players were the worst on there yesterday in Kebe and Rosenior.

We need a striker and to bring Matejovsky in for Kebe and put Davies out wide.

Not good enough I'm afraid - they Kebe and Rosenior are only "our most experienced players" because we appear to have sold the majority of the good ones - and frankly I'm not sure who would buy those two anyway.

You can't sell your best players, change the fundamental way you play football, and use the your academy team without reinforcing your team (more than just one defender, (ok plus bertrand who isn't pulling up trees let's be honest - get Armstrong back - he can tackle ffs) and potentially a striker) and expect anything other than a season of struggle and possibly relegation.

Honestly, are you really happy with the Rodgers Revolution so far? Is it everything you expected?

[Royalee]

Two clean sheets in three games isn't bad given Betrand 'can't tackle'.

Pearce and Karacan have done fine as far as I'm concerned and it was amusing that once we took Karacan off and brought on Harper last night we suddenly had a massive gaping hole in midfield (don't take my word for it, read what the Swansea fan wrote). We've had arguably our two best attacking players in Matejovsky and Noel Hunt out injured so far and will be stronger when they return, especially with the addition of one or two players which Rodgers has said he'll get.

Against Forest we should and would have scored if we'd had someone decent up top and although the performance clearly wasn't there last night, we still kept a clean sheet and Mills, Tabb and Noel Hunt all very nearly scored to nick a win. Give this team a few more games, get those two players back and bring in one or two new faces to sharpen us up and I'll be very happy with the Rodgers Revolution thank you very much. I'd be a lot more worried if Rodgers was unaware of our need to strengthen and couldn't work out why we're not scoring goals like his predecessor.

[Mike Hunt]

Two clean sheets in three games isn't bad given Betrand 'can't tackle'.

Pearce and Karacan have done fine as far as I'm concerned and it was amusing that once we took Karacan off and brought on Harper last night we suddenly had a massive gaping hole in midfield (don't take my word for it, read what the Swansea fan wrote). We've had arguably our two best attacking players in Matejovsky and Noel Hunt out injured so far and will be stronger when they return, especially with the addition of one or two players which Rodgers has said he'll get.

Against Forest we should and would have scored if we'd had someone decent up top and although the performance clearly wasn't there last night, we still kept a clean sheet and Mills, Tabb and Noel Hunt all very nearly scored to nick a win. Give this team a few more games, get those two players back and bring in one or two new faces to sharpen us up and I'll be very happy with the Rodgers Revolution thank you very much. I'd be a lot more worried if Rodgers was unaware of our need to strengthen and couldn't work out why we're not scoring goals like his predecessor.

I agree.

As much as I loved Coppell, it is great to hear the Manager actually point out what needs to be fixed, other than "I don't know whats wrong"

[LoyalRoyal22]

Brendan Rodgers has decided to go with a 4-3-3 formation and I don't know about you but I would prefer a return to 4-4-2. I know its early days and I hope I'm proved wrong, I just don't think we have a enough goals in the team. Incidentally why did we have no one in the six yard box when we were taking corners?

The system will take more than 4 games to come good, give it time. Pathetic

[Hoop Blah]

For a similar comparison closer to home, look at Swansea last season. Gomez scored 12, and Bodde 7 (from only 17 games). Surprisingly Leon Britton didn't notch in the league though.

I think you misunderstood. The point was not that certain midfielders can get into goalscoring positions and score.
The point was that if all you do is pass it sideways in the midfield circle, you will have to shoot from thereabouts, and it is simply not very likely to score many goals that way. Also this gives time for the opposition defence to establish organized formations, and that severely dents any hope you have of scoring a goal.
Simply put, the most effective way to get a goal is to go forward fast while the opponents are not in an established defence situation.
In our record breaking season we did this very well, we'd get the ball in our own half, storm forward and score. Very simple, very effective.
That's the route I would like to see us take.
Not the "Liverpool Roy Evans Gerard Houllier" type route, where the ball is shifted sideways constantly and no end product is delivered.

Fair enough, not sure the likes of Swansea or Doncaster really got the ball forward quickly, but I totally agree that tappy tappy sideways passing with no attacking thrust or incisive cutting edge isn't going to create you many clear cut chances in a game.

I really don't think that's the game plan Rodgers is building towards though so I wouldn't worry yet.

[Son of Len]

4-3-3 is currently looking toothless with our attacking players.

I like having 3 in central mid as we are strong there as a squad. Our weakness is we havnt really got a striker who is capable of leading the line on his own.

3-5-2 is the way forward as we have 3 good centre backs, Bertrand can get forward like he did against Newcastle without as much responsibility. Rosenior wont be so much of a liability. We still have 3 in midfield to dominate, with hopefully Marek in a free role. It seems Davies likes to get forward aswell. And up top we can start to look like scoring.

I agree. Put three CM together (Harps/Tabb, Karacan, Marek/Davies) with Long and Hunt/Church up top and we should be able to score goals and control the middle of the park. And we should always have fresh legs on the bench - we have enough MFs and, I would argue, they are the strength of the squad.

I only saw the Newcastle game, and it seems the goals came from very good MF crosses. The defenders appeared to be in decent position and I don't think Fed had much of a chance with any of the goals. Granted, I watched the game on the internet and the view wasn't always clear. But I think the lapses came from MF, and we need to close that down.

[Terminal Boardom]

Who gives a fuck as long as we score at least one on Saturday?

[Thaumagurist*]

I very much prefer 4-4-2.

I don't like 4-5-1. It is a bit negative and it usually leaves the striker all on his own up front. 4-3-3 is fine....as long as the team sticks to the shape. Too often the team loses shape and becomes a 4-5-1 as the wingers pull back to help out the midfield and don't help out the attack. You see England having the problem of trying to fit in Gerrard and Lampard, some people think the solution is to have either 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 to fit them in. The solution is far much more simplier than that. Drop one of them and have a ball winner alongside them. Much like what we need to do, have either Karacan or Cisse or Tabb alongside Matejovsky. Also the trouble with 4-3-3 is that there is the temptation to do away with out and out wingers and stick in strikers and thereby having no width at all.

[leon]

Two clean sheets in three games isn't bad given Betrand 'can't tackle'.

Pearce and Karacan have done fine as far as I'm concerned and it was amusing that once we took Karacan off and brought on Harper last night we suddenly had a massive gaping hole in midfield (don't take my word for it, read what the Swansea fan wrote). We've had arguably our two best attacking players in Matejovsky and Noel Hunt out injured so far and will be stronger when they return, especially with the addition of one or two players which Rodgers has said he'll get.

Against Forest we should and would have scored if we'd had someone decent up top and although the performance clearly wasn't there last night, we still kept a clean sheet and Mills, Tabb and Noel Hunt all very nearly scored to nick a win. Give this team a few more games, get those two players back and bring in one or two new faces to sharpen us up and I'll be very happy with the Rodgers Revolution thank you very much. I'd be a lot more worried if Rodgers was unaware of our need to strengthen and couldn't work out why we're not scoring goals like his predecessor.

OK lets give it some time.

[Hoop Blah]

I can understand your concerns, but realistically with such a major overhaul this summer I think you'd be a little naive to expect a lot more than we're getting at the moment during the bedding in stage.

Admittedly I thought we'd at least have had a goal by now though!

I'm not surprised that the academy players aren't making much of an impact as yet and that's the one thing I am a bit concerned about, how are we going to inject some quality and experience into the side. I'm all for getting the youngsters in and giving them their chance, however, the best way to get them to succeed is by giving them a decent team around them to express themselves.

All along I've said that if we're relying on the likes of Church, Long and Robson-Kanu for goals and our attacking play then we're going to have a rocky season.

I still think it's bit early to start to really worry though, although if we don't get Hunt, Matejovsky and Harper fit and add a couple of players before the transfer window closes then we'll be going into the next 4 months with a weak Championship squad.

[The Quiet Man]

+1 Fully agree with this analysis. We are not that far away from having the bones of a good side but are asking a bit too much of some of the Academy lads at the moment. There may be a few good loan deals to be done after the window - heres hoping otherwise this is a very tough league to be experimenting to find the best team and tactics.

[79Royal]

Whatever works, but we've got to give 433 a chance before we change.

[Jeffers217]

Amen to the diamond:

Mooney N Hunt

Marek
Robson-Kanu Henry


Karacan

N Hunt can't play up top on his own- Mooney can hold the ball up. Been impressed with Robson- Kanu so far but Kebe is usless so needs to be replaced. Karacan has looked decent but we're not creating so Marek is the answer.

[SteveRoyal]

FFS.
I hate seeing this 4-3-3 formation fail to work.
Whenever we switch to a diamond it works fairly well, and yet we persist with 4-3-3.
How many games will it take for Rodgers to realise the squad can't cope with a 4-3-3?