Madejski Out and I mean Out

[yuomi]

taking parachute payements, tv and advertisng and recent player sale revenues into account SJM must be sitting on a fairly tidy sum in terms of the club's liquidity. it is not a business model built on debt so, whatever the existing overdraft (if there even IS one),it cant be very big. as to where this money is going, i dont have the foggiest. im not overly familiar with SJMs books but know that, whatever happens short of the apocolypse, he aint going to be a pauper. the degas sale wasnt financially motivated, he gave half the proceeds to the V&A as part of his philanthropical drive to get his name plastered in as many places of cultural significance as he can before the world realises that his rug is as much of a sham as his and BRs 'great plans' for us in europe within five years.

taken alongside his property holdings, the moderate automotive museum and the fact that he owns 98% of a club modestly valued at £90m i dont think hes quaking in his boots as much as some'd like him to be....

[Wimb]

I take what BR or any other lower level employee says with a pinch of salt. They are only quoting state policy. I want to know what has happened to the Premiership, Sky TV and Transfer money that has been accrued over the last 3 or 4 years. So much has been said about overdraft repayments. Overdraft for what?

As for your comment about transfer fees received, a blind man could see that we have raked in about 11 million for the sale of Doyle, Hunt and Bikey. SSN speculates on the values ffs. So no big secret there is there!

Building for promotion? From which level cos it sure as hell isn't this one!

So why wouldn't you take what SJM says with a pinch of salt?

More to the point why would BR lie? if he says he has money then doesn't spend it, it'll be him who gets the flak. He's said since day 1, he's looking to invest and already has spent £2 million this summer, BEFORE we sold Hunt and Bikey. So presumably he now has some money to invest elsewhere. Wait until the fecking window shuts before you start crying about us not spending money, patience is a virtue.

It's been said plenty of times on here and shown on the accounts published in other threads, that the Sky TV money and transfer money etc, largely went on wages and paying off the OD.

Whilst not knowing exactly what the overdraft was used for, I can imagine the OD being spent on any number of things essential or usefull for a club in the top flight, six million is hardly a lot of unaccounted money in the grand scheme of running a Premiership football club is it? especially one who's wages increased and most likely would have had to reward its squad with win bonuses, international call up bonuses, clauses to clubs based on Premiership survival, etc etc.

Moreover the OD could have been used to pay off loans to others other then SJM or put towards long term projects.
I don't understand this great preoccupation with this overdraft but I suppose it gives more to the conspiracy theorists who think SJM is a greedy troll sucking cash from the big cash cow thats RFC

Anyway there is also a big difference between other clubs 'speculating' on what cash we have and a chairman saying exactly what we have, I doubt someone running a multi million pound business would base his valuation of a player based on media speculation.

Most clubs are fairly sensible and aware that just because a club takes in X amount doesn't mean they have that to spend.

I really fail to see what right you me or anyone else who doesn't own shares in the club has to see it's accounts. The club is run by people who look after it's long term future based on however much money comes in and however many people turn up. They need to run the club even if people such as yourself decide they can't be arsed anymore. You can decide to walk away at any time, the board can't and the board have to plan for all eventualities not just the dreams and wishes of one section of fans.

BR, SJM, NH and others at the club have publically stated that they are giving the products of a multi million pound youth programme a chance to shine. This is not a fire sale, we still have the likes of Stretch, Harper, Marek, Ivar, Long, Cisse, Kebe, Rosie and Feds who have PREMIERSHIP experience, and the likes of Hunt, Pearce, Berty, Mills who have clocked up a couple of hundred championship level appearences.
We have sold Doyle, Hunt and Bikey who belong and WANTED to play in the PL, released the likes of Doobs and Murty who aren't even setting L1 alight. Whilst also shedding the likes of Lita who just plain wanted out of Reading by his own admission.

Just remember our form with 'experienced players' and the best manager in the clubs history was hardly brilliant over the last 24 months was it.

As the saying goes Rome wasn't built in a day, yet alone four games into a season. This regime got us into the PL once and that took SSC over 2 seasons to do, a man who too blooded youth like Sidwell, Doyle, Long etc. BR isn't even being given a month. Pathetic if you ask me.

[madmickb]

Two hundred and seventy minutes of absolute rubbish over three games. Reading are clueless and have no idea what they are doing. Frankly John Madejski is clearly to blame for Reading's failings through his lack of investment over the past two seasons.

When he talks of wanting Premiership football then you need more than just sound bites. He has raked in the cash and says Reading have no money. He seems to employ a bunch of YES people who dare not challenge his views. He has a big ego and knows nothing about football. If there is one person who needs transferring out of Reading FC it is John Madejski.

Real Facts from the main man. You know it's time to go John so **** off. ASAP. Real Advice.

Best Regards Sir Dodger Royal.

Oh yes you toser and who is going to bankrole the club are you offering

[SLAMMED]

SDR claims another catch.

[Sir Dodger Royal]

Well the Real facts are that the Madman is certainly not bank rolling the Club and hasn't done so for the past three seasons.

The guy knows nothing about football. Dave Whelan at Wigan is worth less that the Madman but Wigan are in the Premiership on smaller gates than RFC and have bigger named players. If they can manage it then why can't the Royals. It's simply a business fact that if you do not improve your product (the team) then you lose market share (relegation from Premiership) and if you continue to not improve your product then you die and become a me too business. That is what's happening at RFC.

Maybe we need to sack Frank Lampard Senior as a Consultant and bring in Robert Peston to teach the Madman some simple economic truths about where he has gone wrong. His other businesses are also in a mess at present as well.

Real Facts from the Main Mannnnnn. You know it makes sense. Get a life because SDR is spot on as usual.

[Arch]

Well the Real facts are that the Madman is certainly not bank rolling the Club and hasn't done so for the past three seasons.

You're certainly a comedian Dodger. This fact has been accepted by everyone on every side of the discussion for years. How much research did it take you?

[Sir Dodger Royal]

If that is the case then as SDR has been saying the Madman is a waste of space.

I am glad you agree with every word that flows fluently from the Main Man. Glad you are joining the campaign to get rid of the Madman. His ego will be trembling and his wig slipping even further after the masses are now following SDR.

Welcome aboard. You know it makes senseeeeeeeeee

[Royal Lady]

It's glaringly obvious to me that JM doesn't wear a wig. Please stop saying that he does.

[frimmers]

will aldershot have to re-think the away end next season when the royals visit hampshire? or will the gates at the plasticstad fall to circumvent?

[frimmers]

It's glaringly obvious to me that JM doesn't wear a wig. Please stop saying that he does.

does he just borrow cilla's for "special" occasions?

[Arch]

If that is the case then as SDR has been saying the Madman is a waste of space.

A waste of space?! When he so clearly listens to you and follows your advice, as in the case of pulling the plug on the Smith transfer. Ingrate!

[Hoop Blah]

Coming back to the Brick by brick point.
Leaving the ground we were talking about last season when we finished 4th,yes 4th so not far at all from automatic promotion.
Most clubs in that position,especially with one year's parachute under their belts plus the residue of the 2nd Premiership season plus the knowledge that there is another £11 million this season to come would surely have taken the view that probably a couple of ADDITIONS to the squad could see us in with a shout of promotion again.

If we had finished say 15th I would understand the cull but we finished 4th,or am I imagining it?

I think the difference is VM that we had a few Premiership players who Coppell had managed to persuade to stay on for one season to try and get back up.

The likes of Doyle, Hunt and Bikey were looking to leave and we'd make agreements with them to allow that to happen after the one season. The likes of Harper and Matejovsky may even follow them. To an extent it's out of our control.

Letting Hahnemann, Murty and Duberry go was, I guess, more about their quality to £ ratio and wanting to initiate that fresh start. Would they make any difference this season? Debatable I'd say. Lita was just a free transfer waiting to happen.

I think the club have been a bit slow in bringing in the quality of replacement we need to rebuild successfully and to support this decent crop of youngsters through out a Championship season. That I'm a little disappointed about, but there is still a week left to go, and I don't think we've yet missed out on any players I'd have looked at as highly desirable additions.

[papereyes]

You know, when people pull off the leeds united comment it proves they don't know much about football.

Leeds were a champions league team who made champions league signings with money they banked on getting by sustaining their status at the top.

However, they somehow got relegated and obviously the debt and money they banked on getting screwed them.

Reading however are plummeting quicker than leeds did and have spent NO MONEY and are nowhere near being in debt, its quite priceless really and rather ironic you use them as an example.

It's almost the opposite situation.

But there is also a deep vein of teams of a similar size who get relegated and struggle after a season or two.

My hunch is that the promotion team/1st season in Prem team become the be-all and end-all. So when they get relegated and these players demand to move on, the club can't see beyond that recent success. To some extent, they forget what qualities they had that made them successful.

In 05-06, we should have spent the January window preparing for the Prem
In 06-07, we should have been looking to bring in a Premiership ready midfielder to replace Sidwell and also looked at renovating the side.
In 07-08, we should have made the one or two quality signings that would have helped us just survive. We had players lined up - and imagine having, say, Gary Cahill over Duberry? O'Neill? Matty Taylor? All players we were in advanced negotiations with.

We didn't. We made do.

Where we are now is a result of this.

[Thaumagurist*]

Time for the club to be honest to its major stakeholders. US!

customers =/= stakeholders.

[Hoop Blah]

Time for the club to be honest to its major stakeholders. US!

customers =/= stakeholders.

Yes they are.

Stakeholders are anybody who are effecting and have an interest in an organisation.

Stakeholder =/= Shareholder

[brendywendy]

It's glaringly obvious to me that JM doesn't wear a wig. Please stop saying that he does.

'greed

a millionaire could go out and get the best wig in the world
JMs clearly is very patchy and full of gaps, and as such would eb the worst wig in the world

if it was one

which it isnt

[Booseal]

JM has not increased his personnel financial support of RFC (or the Hotel) in the years covered by these figures. This would indicate that the Media Centre and the Hotel extension were funded by external sources.

JM and his fellow directors did not draw any salary from the club during this period. Interestingly this means that Nicky Hammond is a Director in name only (unless he is working for free)

JM is accumulating interest on his loans to the Club and Hotel. It is a bit tricky to see if he taking any of this accruing interest, but the total interest debt to him increased by £391,230 in our last Premier season. A total of £1,183,929 was paid out in 'interest and other charges' during this period. As JM is by far the biggest creditor RFC Holdings has I would think that he received a substantial part of this, but again it is impossible to say from these figures.

It is not possible to say from these numbers what the £6,932.994 overdraft was used for (again you world need to see the management accounts.). It is normally a very expensive way of borrowing cash so I would think it is unlikely to be used for long term projects such as the Hotel extension or the Media centre. I understand that RFC Holdings had to pay back a considerable part of this on relegation to the Championship (not shown on these figures of course).

Neither the club or hotel paid any non employee related tax during the period. They did of course pay NI contributions etc. for the staff .

There is no way to tell if the Directors charged any management fees for their services.
There is no way to see the extent of inter company trading between RFC holdings and other Madejski owned companies, such as Benham Goodhead Group who print the programmes etc.
It is not possible to say if RFC holdings are being charged for the use of Hogwood Training ground, and if so who is the owner of the property.

Sorry I cannot enlighten you any more - but get me the management accounts and we would be able to see precisely whats going on.

As for how you can get an overdraft when you made a profit - easy! An overdraft is simply a loan. It tends to be non specific so is used for day to day cash needs and negates the company having to take out many smaller loans. They will have agreed a overdraft limit with a bank and can operate within this limit as and when they see fit. I believe this limit was slashed by the bank on relegation. You probably find out that the fees RFC gained from the sale of Kitson, Sonko and Shorey were used to pay this back. The perils of having no JM cash to back us up I am afraid!

Great info, Northern Git. Something to supplement it a little; courtesy of "Kruador" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A56061786)...
"All land and property in the UK must be registered with the government. You only have to go onto Land Registry and pay £4 (per property) to find out who owns what:

Stadium: owned by The Reading Football Club Limited; registered charges (loans secured on the property) from Scottish Courage Limited and HSBC Bank plc. The loan from Courages was taken out in August 2004, and from HSBC in January 2003.

Hotel: owned by Reading Football Club Limited, and leased to Madejski Stadium Hotel Limited for 125 years from January 1999. MSHL, which I think is a subsidiary of RFC Holdings plc, paid £4.2m to RFC Ltd. It took out a loan from HSBC, secured on the leasehold, in February 2005.

Training ground: owned by R J Madejski, who paid £700k in March 2004, and borrowed money from the Secretary of State for Defence i.e. the government. It used to be the Arborfield Garrison's sports field. RFC has a 25-year lease on it - no price stated. There was no mortgage on the leasehold when I looked it up last September.

Mould's £1.3m was probably secured on the £2m new media centre - likely borrowed from an existing lender, so it doesn't show up as a new charge on the Title Register."

[(.)Boobies(.)]

It's glaringly obvious to me that JM doesn't wear a wig. Please stop saying that he does.

Hair implants.

[The Quiet Man]

Alternatively you could say that, like others have said on this board, the current situation is very similar to after the Bolton play offs when we were told we didn't have a ground that would sustain premier league football as all our best players were sold off and the one outlay of money saw the talented waster Caskey bought.

For the Mcghee team read the Coppell team being run into the ground and its best players sold off. True we have an Academy which may soften the blow if its players live up to the hype that some have given to them on this board and we won't end up where we were with Burns inheriting a hollowed out burnt out shell of a team. Rodgers should study history as Burns eventually built a passing side that went backwards and sideways indefinitely but couldn't score enough goals and couldn't get any consistency in its results.

Perhaps we the fans should wake up to the reality that under this chairman a decent side every 7 or 8 years is all we are going to get and that there is no way we are a premier league side except by massive overachievement. Equally there are simply not multimillionaires queuing up to buy clubs like Reading. There are alternatives without SJM but they could be a hell of a lot worse - administration has featured for a lot of sides when the parachute money runs out if that happens here and SJM washes his hands altogether are some of the posters here going to be emptying their piggy banks to back the club?

[Gordons Cumming]

Well the Real facts are that the Madman is certainly not bank rolling the Club and hasn't done so for the past three seasons.

The guy knows nothing about football. Dave Whelan at Wigan is worth less that the Madman but Wigan are in the Premiership on smaller gates than RFC and have bigger named players. If they can manage it then why can't the Royals. It's simply a business fact that if you do not improve your product (the team) then you lose market share (relegation from Premiership) and if you continue to not improve your product then you die and become a me too business. That is what's happening at RFC.

Maybe we need to sack Frank Lampard Senior as a Consultant and bring in Robert Peston to teach the Madman some simple economic truths about where he has gone wrong. His other businesses are also in a mess at present as well.

Real Facts from the Main Mannnnnn. You know it makes sense. Get a life because SDR is spot on as usual.

That post has finally confirmed that you are an attention seeking fool,