Please lose more games Brendan

[SteveRoyal]

I'm not - I get it. If you're too scared to try things or take a risk then you'll never find success.

It's called long-term thinking, rather than knee-jerk short-termism.

+1

I'd still rather win games whilst experimenting, though.

[strap]

I

You'll be forgiven for thinking this is an anti-BR thread coming from me but it's not. It will be controversial though.

I for one am very happy with what BR is doing. I'm quite impressed actually.

Why?

Because he has the balls to try different players, different formations, different tactics. He is CLEARLY trying to experiment with as much as he can so he GETS IT RIGHT.

What would people rather? He arbitrarily decides who the good and bad players after just 5 mins of being here and puts them into a rigid formation every week and never really gets it right?

Or he takes the opportunity to try different things now?

I'd rather we lose the next 10 games in a row and do badly most of this season and just scrape survival but he LEARNS huge amounts and sets us up for the future than he shuts up shop every time we snatch a lucky lead and end up with a mediocre run of a couple of wins, a lot of draws ( tyring to hold onto them so as not to upset fans) and remain none the wiser about our squad.

BRENDAN - carry on experimenting mate. I'd rather you experiment now, even if it means losses and inevitably bad decisions, than you play it safe for the sake of fans.

BRENDAN RODGERS' BARMY ARMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brilliant, brilliant post. Thanks for making me realise that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

So by your reckoning then, Tommy Burns and Terry Bullivant were master tacticians?? There are countless examples through our clubs history, never mind the league, that shows that settled teams with fewer changes of personel in a season win more honours.

Logically this is obvious, as the players all know each other's style, positioning etc, and hence develop seemingly telepathic understanding. Constant chopping and changing of personel and systems gives the exact opposite. Burns, Bullivant and now seemingly BR simply shuffle the pack in a forelorn hope of magically finding a winning blend. Total bollax. That's what "training" is for!!

When I get back to these shores I'll dig out the data I prepared some time ago showing the relative "choppiness" of our various managers to prove my point.

[facaldaqui]

But which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Teams don't fail because they chop and change the players, they chop and change because they are failing. You could take Coppell's last couple of months and suggest the team were failing because he was chopping and changing, but he was chopping and changing because we were failing.

[Ian Royal]

But which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Teams don't fail because they chop and change the players, they chop and change because they are failing. You could take Coppell's last couple of months and suggest the team were failing because he was chopping and changing, but he was chopping and changing because we were failing.

But you can't change the team EVERY game. Shit happens sometimes, players play badly and get beat. That doesn't mean it isn't the right combination. There is no way you can judge that on the face of 1 game. Yet we've had 8 one game teams.

There's no point staying with a losing formula over 6 or 7 games. But you've got to pick your team and tactics and stick to it as much as possible for at least 3 games.

Game 2:- 1 change (not enforced)
Game 3:- 3 changes (2 not enforced)
Game 4: 4 changes (4 not enforced) Formation change
Game 5:- 3 changes (2 not enforced) Formation changed back
Game 6:- 3 changes (new signings)
Game 7:- 2 changes (2 not enforced) Formation change
Game 8:- 1 change (not enforced)

One or two more may have been necessary, I've only got Kebe and Long's injuries as enforced changes.

[Millsy]

You'll be forgiven for thinking this is an anti-BR thread coming from me but it's not. It will be controversial though.

I for one am very happy with what BR is doing. I'm quite impressed actually.

Why?

Because he has the balls to try different players, different formations, different tactics. He is CLEARLY trying to experiment with as much as he can so he GETS IT RIGHT.

What would people rather? He arbitrarily decides who the good and bad players after just 5 mins of being here and puts them into a rigid formation every week and never really gets it right?

Or he takes the opportunity to try different things now?

I'd rather we lose the next 10 games in a row and do badly most of this season and just scrape survival but he LEARNS huge amounts and sets us up for the future than he shuts up shop every time we snatch a lucky lead and end up with a mediocre run of a couple of wins, a lot of draws ( tyring to hold onto them so as not to upset fans) and remain none the wiser about our squad.

BRENDAN - carry on experimenting mate. I'd rather you experiment now, even if it means losses and inevitably bad decisions, than you play it safe for the sake of fans.

BRENDAN RODGERS' BARMY ARMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just thought I'd bump this thread.

As I say, it takes time to get to know your squad and thank God Brendan has been using the season so far to try different formations and players and really get to know the squad rather than hide behind the small bonus of a bit of consistency and lose the opportunity to do some serious experimentation. Of course he might still be rubbish (as I initially predicted - I hope I was wrong though!), but it might be showing signs of bearing fruit.

Of course there will always be those of us who will claim they "already knew" we should be playing certain players or having a certain formation or should have had some consistency - total bollox. I'd rather do awfully up until now if it means we'll begin to pick it up, than let mere a small consistency hide over the cracks of not knowing the best squad. Brendan needed to sort out his team and he wasn't afraid to do so. Those of us who back him through it should feel proud and continue to do so.

Let's hope he is now getting beyond the experimental phase and is feeling confident enough to continue with his newly found (and hard earned) "best team". Doing it now is fine - trying to beforehand, before knowing who was who would be daft and quite disappointing.

There's a reason why we're not managing RFC and he is. LEAVE HIM TO IT.

BRENDAN RODGERS' BARMY ARMY!!!!!!

[royalsoldaten]

Anyone managing any team, in whatever arena knows that you need to get from the forming stage to the performing stage as quickly as possible. We have had plenty of time pre-season for experimentation and should be performing now, not experimenting and losing!!

I feel as others do that Brendan has been restricted due to Business priorities lyingels ewhere in the Madjeski empire, this is clear to see given that we only spent £3m of the monies made from promotion in TV rights, parachute payments and the sale of those that recently left us.

I am certain that we will be safe, just, but we need to get there quickly!

[Millsy]

Anyone managing any team, in whatever arena knows that you need to get from the forming stage to the performing stage as quickly as possible. We have had plenty of time pre-season for experimentation and should be performing now, not experimenting and losing!!

I feel as others do that Brendan has been restricted due to Business priorities lyingels ewhere in the Madjeski empire, this is clear to see given that we only spent £3m of the monies made from promotion in TV rights, parachute payments and the sale of those that recently left us.

I am certain that we will be safe, just, but we need to get there quickly!

I don't know where people are getting this "preseason should have been enough" idea from. Preseason is for established teams with established managers and coaching staff, established ways of playing, to get back to fitness and see who's on form and assess perhaps a couple of signings who'll have arrived over the summer and who'll slot nicely into a working system. BR's job was a million miles away from this. Firstly he didn't have almost half a team's worth of players to assess or choose from - they came later. Secondly he was responsible for assessing the merits of every single player, and trying to build - almost from scratch - a totally new-look Reading. These would have been a big enough task for anyone but thirdly, he was a new manager!

I was one of the most vociferous anti-Rodgers posters on HNA and would just love to gloat about how I was right about him being the wrong man, yet now I somehow seem to be defending him purely because my conscience and rational thinking won't allow me to expect anyone to perform an impossible task in preseason - it was ALWAYS going to take much longer.

Like I keep saying. We employed a football manager not a magician.

However, I totally agree with the last two parapgraphs - well said!

[Ian Royal]

Anyone managing any team, in whatever arena knows that you need to get from the forming stage to the performing stage as quickly as possible. We have had plenty of time pre-season for experimentation and should be performing now, not experimenting and losing!!

I feel as others do that Brendan has been restricted due to Business priorities lyingels ewhere in the Madjeski empire, this is clear to see given that we only spent £3m of the monies made from promotion in TV rights, parachute payments and the sale of those that recently left us.

I am certain that we will be safe, just, but we need to get there quickly!

Hardly anyone spent more than us at this level. £3m is masses of money in the current financial climate for us given the debts that have been called in and the budget reductions that are needed to survive without parachute payments.

Some people are just ridiculous.

[winchester_royal]

We have not spent anywhere near £3million yet.

[Madstad to Nadderud]

[quote="2 world wars, 1 world cup"]You'll be forgiven for thinking this is an anti-BR thread coming from me but it's not. It will be controversial though.

I for one am very happy with what BR is doing. I'm quite impressed actually.

Why?

Because he has the balls to try different players, different formations, different tactics. He is CLEARLY trying to experiment with as much as he can so he GETS IT RIGHT.

Or BR is simply out of his depth and doesn't really know what he is doing. Touch of luck yesterday perhaps?

[RoyalBlue]

Anyone managing any team, in whatever arena knows that you need to get from the forming stage to the performing stage as quickly as possible. We have had plenty of time pre-season for experimentation and should be performing now, not experimenting and losing!!

I feel as others do that Brendan has been restricted due to Business priorities lyingels ewhere in the Madjeski empire, this is clear to see given that we only spent £3m of the monies made from promotion in TV rights, parachute payments and the sale of those that recently left us.

I am certain that we will be safe, just, but we need to get there quickly!

Hardly anyone spent more than us at this level. £3m is masses of money in the current financial climate for us given the debts that have been called in and the budget reductions that are needed to survive without parachute payments.

Some people are just ridiculous.

I quite agree. It is absolutely effing ridiculous that the chairman and his disciples have spent god knows how many years telling us what an absolutely fantastic business/financial model we have, envied by all, copied by others, our guarantee of long term security etc. The next moment the cloth is having to be cut to complete shreds overnight, all our best players shipped out permanently or on loan and the incoming manager expected to perform miracles on a shoe string. Can't have it both ways guys, it wasn't as if the financial consequences of relegation from wouldn't have been seen well in advance by great business brains.

Just glad that Brendan is now looking as though he might just have what it takes to keep us in this league despite actions and finances not matching the chairman's comparatively recent statements of determination to get back to the PL.

[Big McC]

If there is any merit to experimenting with the team it has to be done intelligently. For me, there is no validity in doing an experiment where you change too many variables all at once - you simply can't tell which of the many changes was the key one that helped or hindered. So I have been distinctly unhappy about the haphazard, random wholesale changes to the starting eleven that Rogers has made during this first part of the season.

Judging from the last few games it looks like he might just be beginning to get some idea of a settled team with a reasonably consistent starting eleven. For me this is real progress, and surely a confidence booster. As far as possible, he should stick with the current first team players, and experiment only as necessary and in a reasoned, sensible way.

[Ian Royal]

Anyone managing any team, in whatever arena knows that you need to get from the forming stage to the performing stage as quickly as possible. We have had plenty of time pre-season for experimentation and should be performing now, not experimenting and losing!!

I feel as others do that Brendan has been restricted due to Business priorities lyingels ewhere in the Madjeski empire, this is clear to see given that we only spent £3m of the monies made from promotion in TV rights, parachute payments and the sale of those that recently left us.

I am certain that we will be safe, just, but we need to get there quickly!

Hardly anyone spent more than us at this level. £3m is masses of money in the current financial climate for us given the debts that have been called in and the budget reductions that are needed to survive without parachute payments.

Some people are just ridiculous.

I quite agree. It is absolutely effing ridiculous that the chairman and his disciples have spent god knows how many years telling us what an absolutely fantastic business/financial model we have, envied by all, copied by others, our guarantee of long term security etc. The next moment the cloth is having to be cut to complete shreds overnight, all our best players shipped out permanently or on loan and the incoming manager expected to perform miracles on a shoe string. Can't have it both ways guys, it wasn't as if the financial consequences of relegation from wouldn't have been seen well in advance by great business brains.

Just glad that Brendan is now looking as though he might just have what it takes to keep us in this league despite actions and finances not matching the chairman's comparatively recent statements of determination to get back to the PL.

You can't have it both ways either. Either we've cut our cloth ridiculously and the players aren't good enough to keep us up, or Rodgers oxf*rd up our start to the season and the players are quite capable of keeping us up.

[Big McC]

You can't have it both ways either. Either we've cut our cloth ridiculously and the players aren't good enough to keep us up, or Rodgers oxf*rd up our start to the season and the players are quite capable of keeping us up.[/quote]

Why not both?

[Ian Royal]

Because if the players aren't good enough to keep us up it doesn't matter what Rodgers does. But if it's Rodgers that arsed up the start of the season then he can fix the problems and take us up the table.

[Big McC]

And if both players and Rogers aren't good enough?

[not that I necessarily think that's the case]

[Ian Royal]

And if both players and Rogers aren't good enough?

[not that I necessarily think that's the case]

We'll go down.

[Millsy]

Anyone managing any team, in whatever arena knows that you need to get from the forming stage to the performing stage as quickly as possible. We have had plenty of time pre-season for experimentation and should be performing now, not experimenting and losing!!

I feel as others do that Brendan has been restricted due to Business priorities lyingels ewhere in the Madjeski empire, this is clear to see given that we only spent £3m of the monies made from promotion in TV rights, parachute payments and the sale of those that recently left us.

I am certain that we will be safe, just, but we need to get there quickly!

Hardly anyone spent more than us at this level. £3m is masses of money in the current financial climate for us given the debts that have been called in and the budget reductions that are needed to survive without parachute payments.

Some people are just ridiculous.

Hardly anyone has had their team ripped apart and have been expected to rebuild a promotion pushing team from scratch.

£3m for building a supposed Prem-pushing team from scratch is even more ridiculous.

HOWEVER budget reductions/debts/no parachute are all valid observations. It is confusing therefore that the club still insist on talking about promotion if it's clear this is unrealistic.

Still, Madman knows what he's doing even if he's dishonest about our short term ambition.

[Wycombe Royal]

Hardly anyone spent more than us at this level.

And no-one has sold/released more than us at this level.