Alex Pearce

[Sun Tzu]

Would the fact that Harper was pretty certain to leave the club have been a factor in not making him captain ?

He was minutes away from leaving in January before he changed his mind and turned down a move and had various options int he summer.

We may as well have offered Stephen Hunt the job !

[Archie's penalty]

Would the fact that Harper was pretty certain to leave the club have been a factor in not making him captain ?

He was minutes away from leaving in January before he changed his mind and turned down a move and had various options int he summer.

We may as well have offered Stephen Hunt the job !

You're probably right. Would love to have been a fly on the wall over the summer. Is Rodgers a bit like Brian Clough?

[PEARCEY]

Would the fact that Harper was pretty certain to leave the club have been a factor in not making him captain ?

He was minutes away from leaving in January before he changed his mind and turned down a move and had various options int he summer.

We may as well have offered Stephen Hunt the job !

I think Harps would have happily stayed if the manager made it clear he was part of his plans.
Harps was loyal to this club.

[Schards#2]

It madea lot of sense to have one of the old guard (Ivar) with one of the youngsters as his deputy. It's hardly a big job being 'vice captain', being captain involves next to nothing beyond calling heads or tails so being vice captain would hardly keep you awake at night.Pearce also had a season captaining the reserves so will already have been seen in a position of some authority within the group of players.

He was a bit unlucky that Ivar was out for the start of the season and he ended up as captain on the pitch, but he's not a kid, he's not inexperienced and there is no real reason why he shouldn;t have been given the job.

He's not become a bad player over night and if it hadn;t been for Ivar coming back to fitness he's still be inthe team....

I'm guessing you haven't played much in the way of competitive sport.

You'd be wrong.

Although what 'competitive sport' has to do with it I'm not sure.

Captains in rugby and cricket - key figures.

Captains in football - no big deal.

The players people consider good captains are no such thing, they are what they are and giving them an armband makes no difference. John Terry, Stuart Pearce, Bobby Moore would have played the game and done things exactly the same whether they were named captain or not. Tke the armband off them and they carry on doing the same thing. It's a token role in football, no standing in the rules, no decisions to make. You do need players who are good organisers, good talkers etc but they do not need to be captains.

Utter Crap.

A captain that leads by example, that the other team members respect, look up to and don't want to let down,makes a huge difference to a football team.

You would know this if you had played competitively at any decent level.

[Sun Tzu]

Would the fact that Harper was pretty certain to leave the club have been a factor in not making him captain ?

He was minutes away from leaving in January before he changed his mind and turned down a move and had various options int he summer.

We may as well have offered Stephen Hunt the job !

I think Harps would have happily stayed if the manager made it clear he was part of his plans.
Harps was loyal to this club.

In what way ?

He's a pro and puts himself first (rightly). He had a deal sorted with another club last January and pulled out at the last minute and the reasons were nothing to do with loyalty to Reading. He was talking to other clubs over the summer. IMHO he needed to leave, he'd been here too long and needed a new challenge. Great servant, in danger of stagnating.

[PEARCEY]

^ You haven't answered the first part of my post. If Rodgers had turned to him and said that as the longest serving pro he would be made captain at the start of the season do you think Harps would have gone? I don't....and yes he was loyal. When can you recall him ever kicking up about wanting to leave the club?

[Big Foot]

IMHO he needed to leave, he'd been here too long and needed a new challenge. Great servant, in danger of stagnating.

Are you on about Harper or Madejski?

[Sun Tzu]

Utter Crap.

A captain that leads by example, that the other team members respect, look up to and don't want to let down,makes a huge difference to a football team.

You would know this if you had played competitively at any decent level.

Are you able to hold civilised conversations or do you only do the bully persona ?

I think you are mistaking captains and managers.

Players need to look up to and respect managers - who are in control of their destiny.

I would agree that every so often you get an inspirational player that other players will rally to but that is almost always a factor of that player's personality, not becasue they are wearing an armband. As I said, the likes of Pearce were leaders becasue of who they were, not because they were 'captain' and I have played in teams where two or three players have been of that inspirational type. I played a sport alongside a player who played for his country and won an Olympic gold medal while still at college. He was an immense influence, but he wasn't the captain and didn;t need to be. He was respected for what he had achieved and the way he played.

[Sun Tzu]

^ You haven't answered the first part of my post. If Rodgers had turned to him and said that as the longest serving pro he would be made captain at the start of the season do you think Harps would have gone? I don't....and yes he was loyal. When can you recall him ever kicking up about wanting to leave the club?

Yes, I think he would. And rightly so. He needed a fresh challenge IMHO.

I agree he didn;t make many public noises about wanting to leave. Doesn;t mean he wasn't on the look out.

And frankly I think the word 'loyalty' means very little. They are doing a job of work. There is no more reason for a footballer to be 'loyal' than a plumber or accountant. It's a cliche and fairly irrelevant. I'd agree Harper was committed, professional and a great servant....

[Deathy]

rumours in the sunday papers about a bust-up with Mills, not even in the squad for Watford (disciplinary breach), and not showing impressive form when he has played, is this the end for our esteemed vice-captain?????

Dunno, who cares.

[Archie's penalty]

I think Harps would have loved to have been captain here. He still may have left though...

[Schards#2]

Utter Crap.

A captain that leads by example, that the other team members respect, look up to and don't want to let down,makes a huge difference to a football team.

You would know this if you had played competitively at any decent level.

Are you able to hold civilised conversations or do you only do the bully persona ?

I think you are mistaking captains and managers.

Players need to look up to and respect managers - who are in control of their destiny.

I would agree that every so often you get an inspirational player that other players will rally to but that is almost always a factor of that player's personality, not becasue they are wearing an armband. As I said, the likes of Pearce were leaders becasue of who they were, not because they were 'captain' and I have played in teams where two or three players have been of that inspirational type. I played a sport alongside a player who played for his country and won an Olympic gold medal while still at college. He was an immense influence, but he wasn't the captain and didn;t need to be. He was respected for what he had achieved and the way he played.

for a bully, you're very sensitive.

I would site MURTY.

Having played over 25 seasons, I feel entitled to my opinion that you are talking utter crap.

[PEARCEY]

^ You haven't answered the first part of my post. If Rodgers had turned to him and said that as the longest serving pro he would be made captain at the start of the season do you think Harps would have gone? I don't....and yes he was loyal. When can you recall him ever kicking up about wanting to leave the club?

Yes, I think he would. And rightly so. He needed a fresh challenge IMHO.

I agree he didn;t make many public noises about wanting to leave. Doesn;t mean he wasn't on the look out.

And frankly I think the word 'loyalty' means very little. They are doing a job of work. There is no more reason for a footballer to be 'loyal' than a plumber or accountant. It's a cliche and fairly irrelevant. I'd agree Harper was committed, professional and a great servant....

Ok. Fair comment....we seem to have deviated from the Alex Pearce somewhere down the line though. Typical HNA I suppose.

[Dirk Gently]

Ivar has always been one of the greatest "leaders" at RFC - he doesn't shout and scream or order people about - he just has a calm authority that makes people follow him and follow his lead. He doesn't need a captain's armband for that - it's something he just naturally has, and he'll act the same way whether he's the official captain or not.

As to Harps, he really, really wanted to be captain. Again, it didn't change his game at all, as he'd always been ordering and pointing and so on, but for him it was a big thing to be captain - but I don't think it was not being made captain that made him leave. It was much more the fact that he'd been here for so long and did definitely need to move on.....

BTW - under the respect rules, don't forget that the captain is the only one who can talk to the ref now, so there's slightly more than there used to be to the role.

[Ian Royal]

Ivar has always been one of the greatest "leaders" at RFC - he doesn't shout and scream or order people about - he just has a calm authority that makes people follow him and follow his lead. He doesn't need a captain's armband for that - it's something he just naturally has, and he'll act the same way whether he's the official captain or not.

As to Harps, he really, really wanted to be captain. Again, it didn't change his game at all, as he'd always been ordering and pointing and so on, but for him it was a big thing to be captain - but I don't think it was not being made captain that made him leave. It was much more the fact that he'd been here for so long and did definitely need to move on.....

BTW - under the respect rules, don't forget that the captain is the only one who can talk to the ref now, so there's slightly more than there used to be to the role.

Didn't he give an interview just after Rodgers arrived saying he didn't want to be captain because it wasn't what he'd been expecting and Coppell had "mugged him off" by subbing him in games rather than others?

Obviously I'm less close to things at the club than you are, but I suspect if Harper had staked his claim on the captaincy and really knuckled down he'd have got it and still be here.

Instead he said that, not giving a great impression to Rodgers and never really settled, so didn't get picked a lot, partcularly because of his injury. At which point he obviously decided it was time for a change and Rodgers hadn't seen enough to want to persuade him otherwise.

Thats my reading of the situation from afar anyway.

[Dirk Gently]

Ivar has always been one of the greatest "leaders" at RFC - he doesn't shout and scream or order people about - he just has a calm authority that makes people follow him and follow his lead. He doesn't need a captain's armband for that - it's something he just naturally has, and he'll act the same way whether he's the official captain or not.

As to Harps, he really, really wanted to be captain. Again, it didn't change his game at all, as he'd always been ordering and pointing and so on, but for him it was a big thing to be captain - but I don't think it was not being made captain that made him leave. It was much more the fact that he'd been here for so long and did definitely need to move on.....

BTW - under the respect rules, don't forget that the captain is the only one who can talk to the ref now, so there's slightly more than there used to be to the role.

Didn't he give an interview just after Rodgers arrived saying he didn't want to be captain because it wasn't what he'd been expecting and Coppell had "mugged him off" by subbing him in games rather than others?

Obviously I'm less close to things at the club than you are, but I suspect if Harper had staked his claim on the captaincy and really knuckled down he'd have got it and still be here.

Instead he said that, not giving a great impression to Rodgers and never really settled, so didn't get picked a lot, partcularly because of his injury. At which point he obviously decided it was time for a change and Rodgers hadn't seen enough to want to persuade him otherwise.

Thats my reading of the situation from afar anyway.

I certainly remember SC saying that he gave the captaincy to Harper because Harper really wanted it and that it meant a lot to him, and because it wouldn't change the way anyone played on the pitch - Ivar would still "captain" the back four and Harps the midfield.

I honestly have no ideas about why Harper left, but I don't think something like who was captain would affect it - much more how much of a role he felt he had under Rodgers and the fact that he really did need to move on and have a new challenge, and if he was going to play out his contract he perhaps didn't want to do it here.

[winchester_royal]

Harper wasn't made captain because he was not deemed good enough to make the starting XI.

HTFH.

[Sun Tzu]

BTW - under the respect rules, don't forget that the captain is the only one who can talk to the ref now, so there's slightly more than there used to be to the role.

Fair point - although one which exists almost entirely in the FA handouts and videos rather than in reality on the pitch !! Would be good if a few captains did actually follow the recommendations but I can't recall too many examples of captains stepping in to remind their players of their responsibilities !

[Maguire]

I don't think the captaincy did Pearce any favours at all. He's still learning his game at that level and doesn't need the additional resposibility of trying to captain the side. Which, incidentally, is more than just calling heads or tails.

[Ryn]

Pearce is not captain material. We have suffered due to the lack of leadership and organisation on the pitch.

The examples Sun Tzu quoted earlier of John Terry, Bobby Moore, David Beckham even, are good captains BECAUSE they will play the same regardless of whether they are captain or not. That is why they are made captain. They are inspirational leaders and set an example to follow.

It is important to have these figures in a side, and make them captain, because selecting a player for captaincy who is NOT a strong leader will cause a rift, with people pulling in different directions.

Captains are important for making the right decisions on the pitch and leading the line when the manager can't communicate to all the players, or can't lead them himself, as is apparent currently.

They (should) do much more than just choose heads or tails, it's a little bit churlish to say that.