European Leagues Thread 2012/2013

[winchester_royal]

Apart from Bayern no club in Germany is a top job.

By which standards? European-level success? Fanbase? How many times a day Talksport mention the club to you?

A top job, IMO, is in Italy, Spain or England, with the obvious individual exceptions in individual countries.

[handbags_harris]

The top five going into this weekend's round of Eredivisie matches all won, so it's as you were at the top of the table. Steve McLaren's table-toppers FC Twente stuffed FC Groningen 4-0 at home, while 2nd placed PSV won by the same scoreline in Nijmegen at NEC. 4th placed Feyenoord ground out a 1-0 win at de Kuip over VVV-Venlo, whilst FC Utrecht, going great guns in 5th, won at home to Roda JC. AZ drop to 8th after a home defeat against 3rd placed Ajax.

At the bottom RKC Waalwijk look horrendously out of their depth after suffering the 10th defeat in 11 games, this result being a 1-0 defeat at the hands of NAC Breda. Heerenveen drop to 17th (and remain the lowest scorers in the division), five points clear of RKC, after a 4-1 reverse at the hands of Willem II, a result which bumps Willem II up to 13th. Roda's defeat at the hands of Utrecht drops them to 16th, while Groningen's result in Enschede ensures they too drop to 15th.

Results:

FC Utrecht 2-1 Roda JC
ADO Den Haag 2-3 Sparta Rotterdam
Feyenoord 1-0 VVV-Venlo
Vitesse Arnhem 0-2 Heracles Almelo
NAC Breda 1-0 RKC Waalwijk
FC Twente 4-1 FC Groningen
AZ 2-4 Ajax
Willem II 4-1 Heerenveen
NEC 0-4 PSV

Standings (P, W, D, L, Pts. F - A):

1 FC Twente 11 9 2 0 29 24 - 9
2 PSV 11 8 3 0 27 27 - 10
3 Ajax 11 8 2 1 26 35 - 9
4 Feyenoord 11 7 2 2 23 19 - 8
5 FC Utrecht 11 6 4 1 22 13 - 7
6 Heracles Almelo 11 5 2 4 17 11 - 11
7 NAC Breda 11 5 1 5 16 12 - 16
8 AZ 11 5 0 6 15 20 - 15
9 Sparta Rotterdam 11 4 2 5 14 9 - 15
10 ADO Den Haag 11 3 3 5 12 14 - 16
11 NEC 11 2 5 4 11 11 - 16
12 Vitesse 11 3 2 6 11 13 - 20
13 Willem II 11 3 1 7 10 15 - 20
14 VVV-Venlo 11 1 7 3 10 14 - 19
15 FC Groningen 11 2 4 5 10 8 - 16
16 Roda JC 11 2 4 5 10 12 - 21
17 sc Heerenveen 11 2 2 7 8 6 - 17
18 RKC Waalwijk 11 1 0 10 3 7 - 25

[bobbybottler]

The top five going into this weekend's round of Eredivisie matches all won, so it's as you were at the top of the table. Steve McLaren's table-toppers FC Twente stuffed FC Groningen 4-0 at home, while 2nd placed PSV won by the same scoreline in Nijmegen at NEC. 4th placed Feyenoord ground out a 1-0 win at de Kuip over VVV-Venlo, whilst FC Utrecht, going great guns in 5th, won at home to Roda JC. AZ drop to 8th after a home defeat against 3rd placed Ajax.

At the bottom RKC Waalwijk look horrendously out of their depth after suffering the 10th defeat in 11 games, this result being a 1-0 defeat at the hands of NAC Breda. Heerenveen drop to 17th (and remain the lowest scorers in the division), five points clear of RKC, after a 4-1 reverse at the hands of Willem II, a result which bumps Willem II up to 13th. Roda's defeat at the hands of Utrecht drops them to 16th, while Groningen's result in Enschede ensures they too drop to 15th.

Results:

FC Utrecht 2-1 Roda JC
ADO Den Haag 2-3 Sparta Rotterdam
Feyenoord 1-0 VVV-Venlo
Vitesse Arnhem 0-2 Heracles Almelo
NAC Breda 1-0 RKC Waalwijk
FC Twente 4-1 FC Groningen
AZ 2-4 Ajax
Willem II 4-1 Heerenveen
NEC 0-4 PSV

Standings (P, W, D, L, Pts. F - A):

1 FC Twente 11 9 2 0 29 24 - 9
2 PSV 11 8 3 0 27 27 - 10
3 Ajax 11 8 2 1 26 35 - 9
4 Feyenoord 11 7 2 2 23 19 - 8
5 FC Utrecht 11 6 4 1 22 13 - 7
6 Heracles Almelo 11 5 2 4 17 11 - 11
7 NAC Breda 11 5 1 5 16 12 - 16
8 AZ 11 5 0 6 15 20 - 15
9 Sparta Rotterdam 11 4 2 5 14 9 - 15
10 ADO Den Haag 11 3 3 5 12 14 - 16
11 NEC 11 2 5 4 11 11 - 16
12 Vitesse 11 3 2 6 11 13 - 20
13 Willem II 11 3 1 7 10 15 - 20
14 VVV-Venlo 11 1 7 3 10 14 - 19
15 FC Groningen 11 2 4 5 10 8 - 16
16 Roda JC 11 2 4 5 10 12 - 21
17 sc Heerenveen 11 2 2 7 8 6 - 17
18 RKC Waalwijk 11 1 0 10 3 7 - 25

Good stuff Mr Bags. I'm surprised by how badly Heerenveen are doing this season - I guess their strategy of selling their best players every single season might be beginning to backfire.

[Starfish]

Just back from Greuther Fürth against Stuttgart in the last 16 of the German Cup. A 1-0 win for the 2. Bundesliga team and Babbel on the rocks. Stuttgart play Bayern this weekend if I am not mistaken.

Osnabruck (3rd division) also shocked Dortmund tonight. Augsburg and Cologne the other winners.

[prostak]

A top job, IMO, is in Italy, Spain or England, with the obvious individual exceptions in individual countries.

That's not really answering the question. Are you saying managing Chievo is a 'bigger' job than Ajax?

[papereyes]

A top job, IMO, is in Italy, Spain or England, with the obvious individual exceptions in individual countries.

That's not really answering the question. Are you saying managing Chievo is a 'bigger' job than Ajax?

One would clearly assume not because of the 'obvious individual exceptions in individual countries' part.

I'd suggest in Germany, Hamburg, Werder Bremen and one or two others might be arguably at the lower reaches of having a world-wide reputation.

[soggy biscuit]

Alcorcon 4-0 Real Madrid

Being hailed by the Spanish media as Real Madrid's worst ever result.
Alcorcon are in the third division (which is arguably a much lower standard than English 3rd division)

All 14 players used by Real Madrid were from the first squad.

Dudek
Arbeloa
Metzelder
Albiol
Drenthe
Van der Vaart
Granero
Guti
Benzema
Van Nistelrooy
Raul

Borja Perez, the forward who scored the first and last goals earns about £32,500 a year

[handbags_harris]

Good stuff Mr Bags. I'm surprised by how badly Heerenveen are doing this season - I guess their strategy of selling their best players every single season might be beginning to backfire.

Indeed. Danijel Pranjic (Bayern), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Ajax), Ruud van Nistelrooy (PSV), Afonso Alves (Middlesbrough) to name a few have all been sold for relatively big money in recent years. I'm also pretty sure that sacking their manager on August 31 due to their poor start hasn't helped matters either.

[handbags_harris]

"De klassieker" this weekend, Ajax v Feyenoord. Always a tasty fixture, and the biggest game by a long stretch in the Netherlands. And an absolute nightmare for Feyenoord, Ajax running out 5-1 winners at the Amsterdam Arena. Feyenoord were reduced to ten men when Stefan Babovic was sent off on 43 minutes with the score still at 0-0, and were further reduced to nine men when 'keeper Rob van Dijk was given a red card on 89 minutes. The obvious story of the match is that Ajax clearly made their extra men count. Feyenoord stay 4th in the division as a result of Utrecht's failure to pick up anything in Almelo, a 3-1 reverse against Heracles their result. FC Twente, PSV, and Ajax all pull away from the Rotterdammers with all three continuing their good form with victories, FC Twente 2-1 at Roda JC and PSV 1-0 at home to Vitesse. Heracles stay 6th after their 3-1 home win over Utrecht and they close the gap on Utrecht to two points. AZ climb a place to 7th after a 1-0 away win in Groningen, capitalising on NAC's two dropped points in Venlo. Sparta stay 9th, a 2-0 home win over NEC the reward for their endeavours.

At the bottom RKC lost again, this time at home 1-0 to Willem II and stay rooted to the bottom on 3 points. Roda JC drop to 17th, 7 points clear of RKC, after their defeat to table-topping FC Twente, likewise Groningen drop a place to 16th, also on 10 points, after their home reverse to reigning champions AZ. Heerenveen take advantage of those two slips and move to 15th on 11 points after their thumping win over the men from The Hague. Vitesse (14th), NEC (13th), VVV-Venlo (12th) all end the weekend above Heerenveen on goal difference. ADO Den Haag drop to 11th after their result at Heerenveen, and Willem II rise to 10th after their win against already doomed RKC.

Results:

VVV-Venlo 1-1 NAC Breda
Heerenveen 3-0 ADO Den Haag
Roda JC 1-2 FC Twente
PSV 1-0 Vitesse Arnhem
FC Groningen 0-1 AZ
Ajax 5-1 Feyenoord
RKC 0-1 Willem II
Heracles 3-1 FC Utrecht
Sparta Rotterdam 2-0 NEC Nijmegen

Standings (P, W, D, L, Pts, F - A):

1 FC Twente 12 10 2 0 32 26 - 10
2 PSV 12 9 3 0 30 28 - 10
3 Ajax 12 9 2 1 29 40 - 10
4 Feyenoord 12 7 2 3 23 20 - 13
5 FC Utrecht 12 6 4 2 22 14 - 10
6 Heracles Almelo 12 6 2 4 20 14 - 12
7 AZ 12 6 0 6 18 21 - 15
8 NAC Breda 12 5 2 5 17 13 - 17
9 Sparta Rotterdam 12 5 2 5 17 11 - 15
10 Willem II 12 4 1 7 13 16 - 20
11 ADO Den Haag 12 3 3 6 12 14 - 19
12 VVV-Venlo 12 1 8 3 11 15 - 20
13 NEC 12 2 5 5 11 11 - 18
14 Vitesse 12 3 2 7 11 13 - 21
15 sc Heerenveen 12 3 2 7 11 9 - 17
16 FC Groningen 12 2 4 6 10 8 - 17
17 Roda JC 12 2 4 6 10 13 - 23
18 RKC Waalwijk 12 1 0 11 3 7 - 26

[FORSTERS_RIGHT_FOOT]

They had the Ajax game on in the college arms mate.

[handbags_harris]

Kinda glad I didn't watch it.

Also, no away fans at that fixture for five years after repeated mass trouble over the last few seasons.

[prostak]

Round 11 in the Bundesliga:

Dortmund 2 - 0 Hertha
Schalke 2 – 2 Bayer Leverkusen
Hamburg 2 – 3 Borussia Moenchengladbach
Nurnberg 2 – 2 Werder Bremen
Koln 0 – 1 Hannover
Stuttgart 0 – 0 Bayern Munich
Wolfsburg 3 – 3 Mainz 05
Freiburg 0 – 1 Hoffenheim
Frankfurt 2 – 1 Bochum

- VfB managed to scrape a draw against a Bayern side still looking somewhat out of sorts, thereby ensuring they escape a clean sweep of defeats through October. It's still not looking great for them, though at least Jens wasn't mocked by any peripheral staff this week.
- Nurnberg came achingly close to beating Werder, but having been 2 goals up can only have made Hunt's late equalizer all the more agonizing. Starfish, were you at this one?
- Two other teams also clawed draws out of being 2-0 behind; first Mainz 05 continued Wolfsburg's fairly unhappy run, then Schalke scored twice in the last 10 minutes to hold Leverkusen. Nonetheless, Bayer have now edged 1 point into the lead and look fairly good value for it. This season is shaping up to be every bit as gripping as last, though the relative lack of celebrities on the rosters will doubtless ensure a continued lack of international coverage...

[Starfish]

1.FCN against Bremen was indeed difficult to stomach. I got a free ticket through from a girl I know who works for the 'German Football Culture Academy' (dream job). Lots of free food and drink but I was only capable of liquid refreshment after the game.

Having said that, would gladly have accepted the point before kick off.

[handbags_harris]

Hamburg 2 – 3 Borussia Moenchengladbach

Is this considered a surprise result given Borussia's recent struggles in the league?

I also note that Borussia's manager is Michael Frontzeck, formerly of Manchester City ignominy.

[Stranded]

"De klassieker" this weekend, Ajax v Feyenoord. Always a tasty fixture, and the biggest game by a long stretch in the Netherlands. And an absolute nightmare for Feyenoord, Ajax running out 5-1 winners at the Amsterdam Arena. Feyenoord were reduced to ten men when Stefan Babovic was sent off on 43 minutes with the score still at 0-0, and were further reduced to nine men when 'keeper Rob van Dijk was given a red card on 89 minutes. The obvious story of the match is that Ajax clearly made their extra men count. Feyenoord stay 4th in the division as a result of Utrecht's failure to pick up anything in Almelo, a 3-1 reverse against Heracles their result. FC Twente, PSV, and Ajax all pull away from the Rotterdammers with all three continuing their good form with victories, FC Twente 2-1 at Roda JC and PSV 1-0 at home to Vitesse. Heracles stay 6th after their 3-1 home win over Utrecht and they close the gap on Utrecht to two points. AZ climb a place to 7th after a 1-0 away win in Groningen, capitalising on NAC's two dropped points in Venlo. Sparta stay 9th, a 2-0 home win over NEC the reward for their endeavours.

At the bottom RKC lost again, this time at home 1-0 to Willem II and stay rooted to the bottom on 3 points. Roda JC drop to 17th, 7 points clear of RKC, after their defeat to table-topping FC Twente, likewise Groningen drop a place to 16th, also on 10 points, after their home reverse to reigning champions AZ. Heerenveen take advantage of those two slips and move to 15th on 11 points after their thumping win over the men from The Hague. Vitesse (14th), NEC (13th), VVV-Venlo (12th) all end the weekend above Heerenveen on goal difference. ADO Den Haag drop to 11th after their result at Heerenveen, and Willem II rise to 10th after their win against already doomed RKC.

Results:

VVV-Venlo 1-1 NAC Breda
Heerenveen 3-0 ADO Den Haag
Roda JC 1-2 FC Twente
PSV 1-0 Vitesse Arnhem
FC Groningen 0-1 AZ
Ajax 5-1 Feyenoord
RKC 0-1 Willem II
Heracles 3-1 FC Utrecht
Sparta Rotterdam 2-0 NEC Nijmegen

Standings (P, W, D, L, Pts, F - A):

1 FC Twente 12 10 2 0 32 26 - 10
2 PSV 12 9 3 0 30 28 - 10
3 Ajax 12 9 2 1 29 40 - 10
4 Feyenoord 12 7 2 3 23 20 - 13
5 FC Utrecht 12 6 4 2 22 14 - 10
6 Heracles Almelo 12 6 2 4 20 14 - 12
7 AZ 12 6 0 6 18 21 - 15
8 NAC Breda 12 5 2 5 17 13 - 17
9 Sparta Rotterdam 12 5 2 5 17 11 - 15
10 Willem II 12 4 1 7 13 16 - 20
11 ADO Den Haag 12 3 3 6 12 14 - 19
12 VVV-Venlo 12 1 8 3 11 15 - 20
13 NEC 12 2 5 5 11 11 - 18
14 Vitesse 12 3 2 7 11 13 - 21
15 sc Heerenveen 12 3 2 7 11 9 - 17
16 FC Groningen 12 2 4 6 10 8 - 17
17 Roda JC 12 2 4 6 10 13 - 23
18 RKC Waalwijk 12 1 0 11 3 7 - 26

Just as I'm in a pedantic mood today I'll point out that Ajax were already 1 up when Feyernoord went down to 10 men.

Ajax should have already been down to 10 tho as Babovic had been on the end of a flayling arm earlier in the half that was as bad if not worse that the one he saw red for.

[handbags_harris]

Just as I'm in a pedantic mood today I'll point out that Ajax were already 1 up when Feyernoord went down to 10 men.

Oops, so they were

http://www.eredivisie.nl/statistieken/uitslag/1411011

[prostak]

Hamburg 2 – 3 Borussia Moenchengladbach

Is this considered a surprise result given Borussia's recent struggles in the league?

I'd say so. Have only seen highlights, but it seems HSV's centre-back Boateng suffered a fairly serious injury, insisted he was alright to continue and more or less gave away the 3 goals before Labbadia finally substituted him. Nonetheless, quite a change from Gladbach's recent form, particularly from last week's horrible game against Köln.
Frontzeck is indeed there and looks utterly terrifying these days, as though he might stare at lumps of iron just to melt them. There is one other ex-Premiership name coaching - Markus Babbel at VfB, who himself looks and acts increasingly like our own Brendan being played by Sacha Baron Cohen.

Incidentally handbags, don't know if you noted but Hertha's ongoing woes this season are largely as a result of missing the man who terrorized your boys' defence on Sunday, Marko Pantelić. And, uh... Andrey Voronin.

[soggy biscuit]

Lyon 5-5 Marseille
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsg58s5xCY8&feature=player_embedded

[prostak]

Day 12 in the Bundesliga -
Leverkusen 4-0 Frankfurt
Bayern 1-1 Schalke
Hoffenheim 1-2 Wolfsburg
Bochum 1-2 Freiburg
Gladbach 0-0 Stuttgart
Mainz 1-0 Nürnberg
Hannover 2-2 Hamburg
Hertha 0-1 Köln
Werder 1-1 Dortmund.

Leverkusen take advantage of Werder being held at home and go three points clear at the top, Bayern continue to produce nothing at all (being strongly criticised by their own Phillip Lahm this week) while at the bottom Hertha continue their own private hell. They're succeeding in killing games as effectively as last year, but with no goalscorer to augment that. Still, at least the game against Köln was slightly more eventful than some of their other recent matches -


Also this week, Jens turns 40 and Kicker have marked this with a retrospective photo gallery. This is his last season, and I'm sure he'll be missed in some way. And finally, Lothar Matthäus thinks "Germany must be ashamed of how it treats such an idol," referring to his struggles in finding employment at home in spite of his illustrious coaching career - which has taken in such highlights as a few months coaching Rapid Wien, 7 games at Paranaense of Brazil (ended by Lothar himself in bizarre fashion) and a nothing spell in charge of Hungary.

[Compo's Hat]

Lyon 5-5 Marseille
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsg58s5xCY8&feature=player_embedded

Marseille 4-2 up with 11 minutes left, Lyon think they've won it in injury time only for Marseille to go up the other end and snatch a point and make the French commentator go crazy. Just wish it was in this country!