BLAME MADEJSKI !!!!!!

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

As ever these debates are polarised.
We as fans never know the truth and never will.
I don't believe that the club HAD to repay the overdraft-£6.5 million is not massive when there are such assets as the ground itself,the hotel and of course that mysterious £7 million or so spent on infrastructure.

If there was some honesty around we might have heard that the chairman wanted the o/d cleared for his own personal eventual gain-are none of us brave enough to accept the truth?
It really gets to me that exceptionally wealthy people like to create smokescreens-it's often the seedy world they operate in and so often (like politicians) they are afraid to tell the truth.

If the chairman had come out and said that he had become pissed off with not enough return from the club,he would arrange sales of £10 million of assets and we would go with what we have got by employing a cheap manager who has already worked with our young players and hopefully would bring out the best in them I wonder what the fan reaction would have been.
Would the fans have respected the honesty ?
Maybe.
Now what we have is a situation where £2million was spent in an area where we were not too badly off because presumably as some kind of sweetener to Rodgers, and to some extent to the fans,it showed that the club is prepared to invest blah,blah,blah.
My post is muddled but so is our club-£10million in,£3million out and we end up with a hotch-potch of players with no plan,some experienced but too old,others inexperienced and too young.

Vision in his normal stance of defending the club to the full with the rare caveat of saying that it is not quite working out as some kind of insurance(as we stand 3rd from bottom and on the slide) and SDR as ever suggesting that everything is wrong at our club are the polarised views,one seemingly well-reasoned but lacking the emotion of most normal fans and the other full of emotion but with no sense of reason.

My stance is that I feel a bit conned-the usual talk of promotion but not providing the ammunition.
The chairman got 2 managers in McGhee and Coppell who worked wonders with peanuts and (as shown in that sick documentary)is,like many wealthy people,paranoid at the thought of losing that wealth so takes panic measures.
We look like a relegation side with old lags like Rasiak,Howard and McAnuff,all nearly men who have slipped further and further down the ladder after starting off brightly at other clubs.
The kids really haven't (yet) looked anything better than ordinary and without changes possibly in manager and definitely in the playing staff I see us playing 3rd tier football next season.

Some people don't seem to think that matters but wait and see what our stadium is like when each week there are only 8,000 fans there and we are hoping for a decent cup draw or progress in the Johnstone Paint Trophy-for those that haven't been there before it isn't great fun especially when any player with a semblance of ability gets sold (remember Neil Webb and Kerry Dixon).

As said earlier these are mainly ramblings of a disillusioned old man wanting to get a few things out of his system but more than anything I detest the deceit that I feel has crept into the upper echelons of our club.

Just about perfectly sums up the way I feel as well. I don't mind the club being honest with us. But the fact that they only do so when forced (such as the recent financial statement) or spout rhetoric about ambition in the weeks prior to season ticket renewal deadline just shows contempt for the fans (or customers).

[Arch]

As ever these debates are polarised.
We as fans never know the truth and never will.
I don't believe that the club HAD to repay the overdraft-£6.5 million is not massive when there are such assets as the ground itself,the hotel and of course that mysterious £7 million or so spent on infrastructure.

If there was some honesty around we might have heard that the chairman wanted the o/d cleared for his own personal eventual gain-are none of us brave enough to accept the truth?
It really gets to me that exceptionally wealthy people like to create smokescreens-it's often the seedy world they operate in and so often (like politicians) they are afraid to tell the truth.

If the chairman had come out and said that he had become pissed off with not enough return from the club,he would arrange sales of £10 million of assets and we would go with what we have got by employing a cheap manager who has already worked with our young players and hopefully would bring out the best in them I wonder what the fan reaction would have been.
Would the fans have respected the honesty ?
Maybe.
Now what we have is a situation where £2million was spent in an area where we were not too badly off because presumably as some kind of sweetener to Rodgers, and to some extent to the fans,it showed that the club is prepared to invest blah,blah,blah.
My post is muddled but so is our club-£10million in,£3million out and we end up with a hotch-potch of players with no plan,some experienced but too old,others inexperienced and too young.

Vision in his normal stance of defending the club to the full with the rare caveat of saying that it is not quite working out as some kind of insurance(as we stand 3rd from bottom and on the slide) and SDR as ever suggesting that everything is wrong at our club are the polarised views,one seemingly well-reasoned but lacking the emotion of most normal fans and the other full of emotion but with no sense of reason.

My stance is that I feel a bit conned-the usual talk of promotion but not providing the ammunition.
The chairman got 2 managers in McGhee and Coppell who worked wonders with peanuts and (as shown in that sick documentary)is,like many wealthy people,paranoid at the thought of losing that wealth so takes panic measures.
We look like a relegation side with old lags like Rasiak,Howard and McAnuff,all nearly men who have slipped further and further down the ladder after starting off brightly at other clubs.
The kids really haven't (yet) looked anything better than ordinary and without changes possibly in manager and definitely in the playing staff I see us playing 3rd tier football next season.

Some people don't seem to think that matters but wait and see what our stadium is like when each week there are only 8,000 fans there and we are hoping for a decent cup draw or progress in the Johnstone Paint Trophy-for those that haven't been there before it isn't great fun especially when any player with a semblance of ability gets sold (remember Neil Webb and Kerry Dixon).

As said earlier these are mainly ramblings of a disillusioned old man wanting to get a few things out of his system but more than anything I detest the deceit that I feel has crept into the upper echelons of our club.

Having read all this, I'm at a loss to know what you really want.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

He feels the club are not being honest, simple, many others feel the same. It was barely a two years that JM proudly came and stated we made a profit of £6m , then the following year he was able to do the same. Now it turns out it was not a profit of £12m over the two years at all, because the club had not included the transfer fees paid in the accounts!!!!!! or the £7m spent on infrastructure.

Perhaps soon they will put the fees received into the accounts, the money from Kitson, Sonko and Shorey would cover the loss of the two Prem seasons, and last season as well.

And the money spent on the infrastructure is there, well what it bought is.

I can't see this going away just yet.

[Wycombe Royal]

Now it turns out it was not a profit of £12m over the two years at all, because the club had not included the transfer fees paid in the accounts!!!!!! or the £7m spent on infrastructure.

You've lost me on that one......

You are basically accusing the club of "window dressing" there which is a big accusation to make. The costs of those things would be included if they were actual costs during those financial years but they may be capitalised and amortized over their "useful life".

It's all written down in the accounting standards as to what they can and can't do......

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

The two sets of accounts published showed a profit of about £6m per season, in the financial statement we are told we lost money, just over £4m, because we had spent about £10m on players and £7m on infrastructure, why were those two figures not in the figures for the two seasons, if we had spent that money?

I realise that they are fairly basic accounts published, but surely is should be shown there, or shown as set aside, or similar?


This seems to show transfer fees included, or am i missing something?

[Wycombe Royal]

The two sets of accounts published showed a profit of about £6m per season, in the financial statement we are told we lost money, just over £4m, because we had spent about £10m on players and £7m on infrastructure, why were those two figures not in the figures for the two seasons, if we had spent that money?

I realise that they are fairly basic accounts published, but surely is should be shown there, or shown as set aside, or similar?


This seems to show transfer fees included, or am i missing something?

The financial statement said this:

Taking into account all other revenue, but before transfer activity, in our two Premier League years we made an operating profit of £6,300,000 then £7,000,000 respectively. That money was reinvested on two fronts - £10,600,000 on player transfers, and a further £7,450,000 on club infrastructure. Therefore, we came out of our two seasons in the Premier League with a deficit of £4,750,000.

It says operating profit, and I'm not sure how transfer fees get accounted for but I doubt they appear in the operating profit figure in one lump sum, just as the investement in infrastructure wouldn't. That would go to the balance sheet and would get charged back to the P&L over a number of years.

You need the P&L, balance sheet, cash flow statement and disclosures to really see what impact the expenditure had. You can't do that from just anoperating profit and a couple of other figures.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I have posted Straps copy of the accounts, it shows the transfers there. Now much as i agree that the cost is probably spread, how is it that he is not talking about it being spread in the statement, cant be both.

It could well be that the fees are in the tangible assetts, i have no idea, tho they are listed there.

Tangible assetts increased £15m in the Prem, whatever they are??

[Wycombe Royal]

I have posted Straps copy of the accounts, it shows the transfers there. Now much as i agree that the cost is probably spread, how is it that he is not talking about it being spread in the statement, cant be both.

It could well be that the fees are in the tangible assetts, i have no idea, tho they are listed there.

Tangible assetts increased £15m in the Prem, whatever they are??

You need to remember that although we agree a fee with a club for a player, the money is paid in installments, has add-ons, etc so this monery is comitted even if it has not actually been paid and will be accrued for in the accounts.

Without the full set of accounts you do not get the full picture and this leads to people, especially those who are not accountants, making incorrect assumptions on what the numbers mean. On the flipside it also allows the company to make statements that can make the numbers appear better or worse than what they really are even though they aren't technicaly lying.

I believe that both of those factors are in play here.

[Yellowcoat]

I think some of the assumptions being made are wrong. As stated earlier a lot of income and expenditure will be amortised. The confusion is caused by referring back to the accounts when reading the recent financial statement. I think this was really seeking to explain how the club had a bank overdraft with the need to pay it off. Cash flow is different to the statutory accounts. Most fans do not seem to understand that headline transfer fees published in the press are often phased over a number of years.

[BR2]

As ever these debates are polarised.
We as fans never know the truth and never will.
I don't believe that the club HAD to repay the overdraft-£6.5 million is not massive when there are such assets as the ground itself,the hotel and of course that mysterious £7 million or so spent on infrastructure.

If there was some honesty around we might have heard that the chairman wanted the o/d cleared for his own personal eventual gain-are none of us brave enough to accept the truth?
It really gets to me that exceptionally wealthy people like to create smokescreens-it's often the seedy world they operate in and so often (like politicians) they are afraid to tell the truth.

If the chairman had come out and said that he had become pissed off with not enough return from the club,he would arrange sales of £10 million of assets and we would go with what we have got by employing a cheap manager who has already worked with our young players and hopefully would bring out the best in them I wonder what the fan reaction would have been.
Would the fans have respected the honesty ?
Maybe.
Now what we have is a situation where £2million was spent in an area where we were not too badly off because presumably as some kind of sweetener to Rodgers, and to some extent to the fans,it showed that the club is prepared to invest blah,blah,blah.
My post is muddled but so is our club-£10million in,£3million out and we end up with a hotch-potch of players with no plan,some experienced but too old,others inexperienced and too young.

Vision in his normal stance of defending the club to the full with the rare caveat of saying that it is not quite working out as some kind of insurance(as we stand 3rd from bottom and on the slide) and SDR as ever suggesting that everything is wrong at our club are the polarised views,one seemingly well-reasoned but lacking the emotion of most normal fans and the other full of emotion but with no sense of reason.

My stance is that I feel a bit conned-the usual talk of promotion but not providing the ammunition.
The chairman got 2 managers in McGhee and Coppell who worked wonders with peanuts and (as shown in that sick documentary)is,like many wealthy people,paranoid at the thought of losing that wealth so takes panic measures.
We look like a relegation side with old lags like Rasiak,Howard and McAnuff,all nearly men who have slipped further and further down the ladder after starting off brightly at other clubs.
The kids really haven't (yet) looked anything better than ordinary and without changes possibly in manager and definitely in the playing staff I see us playing 3rd tier football next season.

Some people don't seem to think that matters but wait and see what our stadium is like when each week there are only 8,000 fans there and we are hoping for a decent cup draw or progress in the Johnstone Paint Trophy-for those that haven't been there before it isn't great fun especially when any player with a semblance of ability gets sold (remember Neil Webb and Kerry Dixon).

As said earlier these are mainly ramblings of a disillusioned old man wanting to get a few things out of his system but more than anything I detest the deceit that I feel has crept into the upper echelons of our club.

Having read all this, I'm at a loss to know what you really want.

So am I.
Broadly I feel that the whole thing has been allowed to slide since January in The Premiership when supposedly Coppell had money to spend.
The club paid £2million or so for Kebe and Marek when if they had speculated another £5 million or so on Matty Taylor and Gary Cahill we would still be in The Premiership IMHO.
It was a massive opportunity missed-yes I know we might not have got them and the club is so sensible etc., etc but the reality is that just 2 years later we are staring 3rd tier football in the face and I don't want to watch us playing at that level.

The other aspect is the honesty or lack of it-the club really has lost touch with it's fans in so many ways as the poor PR claptrap pours out from so many of the board,management and players,feeding stuff to keep us quiet.
All clubs do it,we are not alone,but I don't care about other clubs and just because they do so doesn't make it right.

From an honesty perspective I would like Rodgers to say after tomorrow's victory (everything crossed) that the win gives us greater hope of avoiding relegation rather than the dreamland stuff about it being just a matter of time before we are competing at the top of the table.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

JM was prepared to spend more in the Premiership.

It wasn't him saying we didn't need new players when we clearly did...

[RoyalBlue]

More according to the Gospel of Sir John.

Prepared to spend how much? And it's also pretty easy to say you're prepared to spend on transfer fees if you know that your wage structure will prevent any big money signings wanting to come to you.

Even the great man himself had stated that the time would come the club would have to spend really serious money to stay in the PL and that he didn't want to be around when that time came. Given that he had already announced that he wanted out, maybe that time had arrived.

I think Coppell's argument was that there weren't the players around that would add to or better what he had already got. Could that have been because he knew he couldn't afford to sign the players who would?

[Dirk Gently]

More according to the Gospel of Sir John.

Prepared to spend how much? And it's also pretty easy to say you're prepared to spend on transfer fees if you know that your wage structure will prevent any big money signings wanting to come to you.

I think Coppell's argument was that there weren't the players around that would add to or better what he had already got. Could that have been because he knew he couldn't afford to sign the players who would?

I thought it was common knowledge by now that we'd agreed terms in Jan '08 with Gary O'Neil, but that right at the last minute SC decided not to go through with the signing because of the effect it might have had on our core squad.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Nope don't recall that one, guess must be tongue in cheek.

[Terminal Boardom]

When is the stupid old git going to do the right thing and actually sell up? He is all gas and ego and the sooner he fronts up the better.

He regards paying footballers large sums of money obscene. Well, guess what old man, it's called market forces. But it is fully acceptale for him to hold our football club to ransom with a number of high interest loans. At least Elton John gives his money to Watford!

He hides behind the grape peeling eunuch that is Hammond instead of facing the media and apologising for making our club the best run in the third division which is where we will be next season.

And what's this bollox about the stadium bing unable to be renamed if or when he sells?

The ego must go!

NOW!!!

[Royal Rother]

Same old guff and ignorance coming from the usual sources.

[Royal Rother]

I have posted Straps copy of the accounts, it shows the transfers there. Now much as i agree that the cost is probably spread, how is it that he is not talking about it being spread in the statement, cant be both.

It could well be that the fees are in the tangible assetts, i have no idea, tho they are listed there.

Tangible assetts increased £15m in the Prem, whatever they are??

This might help.

Lump sum payments made for player registrations (i.e. transfer fees) are treated as an Intangible Fixed Asset on the Balance Sheet and amortised (written off as a cost in the Profit & Loss a/c) of the football club over the period of the initial contract in accordance with FRS10. (Financial Reporting Standards)

Tax allowances are given for the exact amounts of the amortisation.

So, if a player is signed for £6m (Ha!) on a 3 year contract, the cost of that transfer fee will be written off as a cost in the Profit and Loss account of the club in equal instalments of £2m each year. And those amounts will be treated as a Tax allowable expense in each of the years.

The amortisation costs of these transfer fees will be included, in the accounts reported, as a part of Operating Expenses so they are not visible in the numbers produced at the start of this thread.

When a player is sold, the remainder of his transfer fee that has not been amortised, is then offset against the incoming fee, and that is shown as a Profit or Loss on Disposal of Player Registrations in the Profit & Loss account. (That will also be included in the final calculations of Taxable Profit / Loss.)

This treatment was introduced in 2002 I believe - prior to that the whole of transfer fees paid out were treated as allowable against Tax in the year in which the player was purchased.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

So our profit on players registrations should , in theory sky rocket in the next two sets of accounts, as for example the 70k we paid for Doyle will have been put through the expenses side, and the 6.5m we got for him will appear in the registration side???? unless it is in installments.

[Compo's Hat]

Matt Holland's view in his football league blog.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/champi ... 36_1839916

Fails to mention that the manager is a bit clueless too. Has probably only seen us once when we were on the tele Monday night.

[winchester_royal]

Matt Holland's view in his football league blog.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/champi ... 36_1839916

Fails to mention that the manager is a bit clueless too. Has probably only seen us once when we were on the tele Monday night.

Wow, so Brendan's managed to fool Matty H as well as SJM, Frank Arneson, Jose Mourinho, SC, etc.....

But at least you've got him figured.