Loanwatch 09-10

[Dirk Gently]

The problem with the Supporters' Trust model is that it doesn't really scale up to the massive sums involved to take over a tier 1 or 2 club - Newcastle and Rangers will be interesting test cases.

The other problems are that as clubs rise up the pyramid the costs of competing increases - and never forget that they're competing against clubs run on either the sugar-daddy or the "HMRC is a free bank" model, so the fact that they're run on sustainable grounds gives them a comparative disadvantage on the pitch.

Also, some Trusts who rescued clubs in trouble inherited the financial baggage, which came back to haunt them This was the case at Stockport, where things were made worse by their manager - he went running to the press saying "they wont give me any money" when the Trust Board was trying to keep the club running, financially.

Sadly, the majority of supporters still don't give a tinker's cuss about debt or ownership - they want the moon on a stick and they want it NOW! - without caring who's paying fro it, where the money's coming from or what the long-term implications are.

[Ryn]

Sadly, the majority of supporters still don't give a tinker's cuss about debt or ownership - they want the moon on a stick and they want it NOW! - without caring who's paying fro it, where the money's coming from or what the long-term implications are.

Good post.

The current recession was built on the back of this attitude, and the football world is likely to follow suit.

[(.)Boobies(.)]

Sadly, the majority of supporters still don't give a tinker's cuss about debt or ownership - they want the moon on a stick and they want it NOW! - without caring who's paying fro it, where the money's coming from or what the long-term implications are.

Good post.

The current recession was built on the back of this attitude, and the football world is likely to follow suit.

A football recession if you will; would in my opinion, be good for the game. The money in football now is completely out of hand. Wage caps, transfer caps, I don't know the answer, but if we carry on as we are, football will implode.

[Terminal Boardom]

But the football world has always been divorced from the real world.

Back in the late 1970s when Bristol City got promotion to the First Division, all their players were rewarded with 4-5 year contracts on vastly improved terms. These were journeymen players like Gerry Gow and John Shaw. They survived a couple of years in the top flight before relegation. Unfortunately, as gates and revenue dropped, coupled with the recession of the early Thatcher years, Bristol City plummetted and went into liquidation. City were unable to have many of their big earners offloaded as none of them were prepared to take a drop in pay. And, quite frankly, who could blame them?

[Dirk Gently]

Perhaps this time round they might just learn - also, for the first time ever, the regulatory authorities and governments are looking at financial governance and debts, so I think the planets are lined up for changes at long last.

IMHO one of the problems is that no-one has really gone out of business. Clubs tend to go into administration, take their 10 points as a slap on the wrist, and carry on as before - no-one seems to take administration as the serious, potentially fatal, thing it ought to be. Even the clubs who did properly fold (Aldershot, Halifax, Scarborough, Newport) are back in a slightly different way but working their way up the pyramid.

Perhaps we need a big club to properly go out of business before common sense takes over. It'll be horrible for their supporters, of course, but perhaps we do need a sacrifice for the greater good of all.

[rhroyal]

Perhaps this time round they might just learn - also, for the first time ever, the regulatory authorities and governments are looking at financial governance and debts, so I think the planets are lined up for changes at long last.

IMHO one of the problems is that no-one has really gone out of business. Clubs tend to go into administration, take their 10 points as a slap on the wrist, and carry on as before - no-one seems to take administration as the serious, potentially fatal, thing it ought to be. Even the clubs who did properly fold (Aldershot, Halifax, Scarborough, Newport) are back in a slightly different way but working their way up the pyramid.

Perhaps we need a big club to properly go out of business before common sense takes over. It'll be horrible for their supporters, of course, but perhaps we do need a sacrifice for the greater good of all.

Imagine if one of the recent clubs in trouble such as Leeds, Leicester or Southampton had truly gone under and ceased to exist, a-la Aldershot. It would have shown the world of football that things need to calm down. Maybe one day it will happen to a high profile club and it will be to the benefit of all - apart from the 100k or so fans they have.

[Terminal Boardom]

The football authorities, and Murdoch's Sky empire, will never allow a massive club to fold. They have too much of a vested interest to allow something like that to happen.

[Mike Hunt]

Looking at the recent announcements of Glasgow Rangers and Newcastle fans groups I wonder what their view and subsequent expectaions would be if they ever did gain control.

What is more relevant are the proposals Gartside of Bolton is going to put to the Premier League meeting this week. This is for Premier League 2, which would include Celtic and Rangers and would have NO relegation. Also, it's unlikely that the 38 English clubs included would be the top 38 by league position - expect Leeds, Norwich & Charlton to be invited, and Blackpool dumped out with the "have-nots".

The natural response is to say "relax, it'll never happen" but i can see some good reasons that this one will happen. Be afraid for the future of football - be very afraid!

According to BBC Sport:
However, Gartside, the driving force behind the revamp, has tweaked the original plans to include promotion and relegation to and from the dual-tier league, while the two Scottish clubs would initially be invited to join the lower tier.

Would Reading be a part of this 38 team comp ?

[Ryn]

The football authorities, and Murdoch's Sky empire, will never allow a massive club to fold. They have too much of a vested interest to allow something like that to happen.

Why would Murdoch give a sh*t exactly? For every Newcastle going down, there is a Man City Arab plaything on the up.

The Prem consists of 20 teams and whether they are all rich or all cash-strapped, they will all always have a fan base, and people willing to pay to watch them on TV.

[Stranded]

The football authorities, and Murdoch's Sky empire, will never allow a massive club to fold. They have too much of a vested interest to allow something like that to happen.

Why would Murdoch give a sh*t exactly? For every Newcastle going down, there is a Man City Arab plaything on the up.

The Prem consists of 20 teams and whether they are all rich or all cash-strapped, they will all always have a fan base, and people willing to pay to watch them on TV.

Because it tarnishes the product. Clubs getting relegated is fine it's part of the competition but a club folded distorts the competition and cheapens the product.

For example, say a club went to the wall with say 5 games to go - they've played both Chelsea and Man Utd. Chelsea picked up 6 pts against that side and Man Utd 0, points are expunged as the club can't complete fixtures and the points swing hands Man U the title - at event like that could well have a very detrimental fact on not only the Premier League brand but advertising revenues and the such like.

That's why when it looked Pompey were going to go in to administration the PL were preparing to take them over for the short term to ensure this didn't happen.

[BR2]

Back to Loanwatch-did others see Saints v Charlton Reserves last night?
Antonio still looks very raw and his passing needs sharpening up but he looks to have something to offer,whether (like the other younger ones)he will eventually offer enough only time will tell.
Mooney-I suppose he was worth a punt from Cork bearing in mind the success of Doyle but he looks just too lightweight for professional football.

[Dirk Gently]

Would Reading be a part of this 38 team comp ?

Probably - they were certainly approached about it 2 seasons ago when it was raised in another form.

And, in fact, the latest proposals I've seen would be for two tiers of 18 clubs - that's 34 English clubs plus Celtic & Rangers.

So 20 from the current PL and add 14 to that from the current other English leagues. Leeds, Charlton and Norwich could well be 3 of them, so 11 from the current CCC - that's under half of them.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

So would a two tiered PRem see the money shared round more?

I could see a benifit to there being no relegation and there there's less pressure to achieve in the short term.

Would be a massive kick in the bollox for all the other clubs though...

[BR2]

So would a two tiered PRem see the money shared round more?

I could see a benifit to there being no relegation and there there's less pressure to achieve in the short term.

Would be a massive kick in the bollox for all the other clubs though...

All the more reason to have made more of an effort to stay in The Premiership?
I remember the two tier idea being suggested about 6 years ago and our chairman said at the time that he thought it would happen.
If just 8 of The Championship were chosen plus a few that have played at the top level for a number of years such as Norwich,Leeds,Southampton,Charlton (or Ipswich Derby and Coventry if they get relegated)plus Celtic and Rangers we may be one of the excluded clubs.
It wouldn't be a bad idea for us to try rather hard to avoid relegation this season.

[Dirk Gently]

So would a two tiered PRem see the money shared round more?

I could see a benifit to there being no relegation and there there's less pressure to achieve in the short term.

Would be a massive kick in the bollox for all the other clubs though...

They always said that it'd never happen because giving more money to Tier 2 would mean that Tier 1 clubs would have to have less money, and they'd never go for that.

Where Gartside has been clever is by working out that bringing the Scottish Clubs in will increase the total value of the TV deal, and that could be used to raise Tier 2 revenue as well as keeping Tier 1 revenue the same.

Also, the way things have been going recently, more and more PL clubs have been in danger of relegation, and so they'd bemire likely to go for this now than they would have a few years ago.

[Terminal Boardom]

Looks like we may be in the need of loaning a striker...

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/readingfc/s/2060678_shane_long_out_of_world_cup_playoff

[brendywendy]

So would a two tiered PRem see the money shared round more?

I could see a benifit to there being no relegation and there there's less pressure to achieve in the short term.

Would be a massive kick in the bollox for all the other clubs though...

They always said that it'd never happen because giving more money to Tier 2 would mean that Tier 1 clubs would have to have less money, and they'd never go for that.

Where Gartside has been clever is by working out that bringing the Scottish Clubs in will increase the total value of the TV deal, and that could be used to raise Tier 2 revenue as well as keeping Tier 1 revenue the same.

Also, the way things have been going recently, more and more PL clubs have been in danger of relegation, and so they'd bemire likely to go for this now than they would have a few years ago.

oxf*rd that shit

if they want to go it alone, then do a european super league franchise system, organised like the NFL, and the rest of us can get on with proper football, LOL at teh idea of bolton being locked into top flight football for the rest of eternity

just LOL

[M-U-R-T-Y]

Mooney and Henry score for their respective clubs.

[Terminal Boardom]

Mooney and Henry score for their respective clubs.

But can they cut it in the CCC?

[Hungerford Bee]

Mooney and Henry score for their respective clubs.

Henry made a difference for Millwall when he came on - Hamer would never have let that goal in though - can we have Hamer back please? (He was at the game yesterday)