JOIN THE PROTEST - SACK THE BOARD

[Royalee]

I don't really know or care about the vitriol between Royalee, Ideal and Ian Royal et al, but to suggest that BR wasn't so bad, ignores so many mistakes and unforced errors as to severely damage any of the salient points made in his defence.

De facto he was not a brilliant manager, a brilliant manager does not make half the poor judgement calls he made, whatever the reasons!

It just doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

Which poor judgement calls?

[Ian Royal]

Those players were brought in over several windows and in fact more than one season, but don't let facts or reality enter your argument.

[Royalee]

Those players were brought in over several windows and in fact more than one season, but don't let facts or reality enter your argument.

You said nothing about transfer windows...

Has any other manager in our history had to sell £12 million worth of players in one transfer window Ian?

[Southbank Old Boy]

'A manager who has a rubbish time and gets sacked'? Are you for real? He was at the club for less than 6 months, had only one transfer window and had to sell £12 million of players on a squad which wasn't good enough last year, yet he was rubbish without having the time to prove whether he was good or bad? Do yourself a favour.

A manager who spent £3.5m (more than double any previous manager for us at this level, manager's who didn't inherit anything approaching the quality of team we had prior to the sales). A manager who failed to buy the players to make his system work, yet continued to try it to the point of near sacking. A manager who made selection and tactics error after error. A manager content to treat the crucial opening 5 games as pre-season.

A manager who took a team expected to be consolidating in mid-table into a relegation fight.

He might have come good, but his first 6 and a half months were very poor and a close decision was made that we couldn't take the risk of hoping he showed significant improvement, when the little he'd already managed was already showing signs of slipping.

What selection and tactics errors are you going on about there? He might have chopped and changed a bit early on before the first international break but that was because he felt he had time to try things out and had to give the squad a fair chance, especially after losing the majority of last seasons startign eleven

[Royalee]

You really are a subhuman waste of space.

So how about it, do you think you'd be willing to just move on and get behind the club any time soon?

Unlike you Ideal, I actually travelled to Bristol and Plymouth to support the club.

[Ian Royal]

I don't really know or care about the vitriol between Royalee, Ideal and Ian Royal et al, but to suggest that BR wasn't so bad, ignores so many mistakes and unforced errors as to severely damage any of the salient points made in his defence.

De facto he was not a brilliant manager, a brilliant manager does not make half the poor judgement calls he made, whatever the reasons!

It just doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

Which poor judgement calls?

How about the ones you thought yourself for a start, like playing Ingimarsson or Kebe.

How about not having a striker capable of playing and scoring in his preferred system? Or the wingers capable of scoring in his preferred system? Or having a clue how his bloated midfield options could work in his preferred system?

What about spending two thirds of his budget on a player he didn't seem to want to play?

// I rather thought it would be obvious to compare like for like. Clearly not for you.
Has any other Manager had significantly more than £12m worth of talent available to them?

You are ignoring the point I made that the squad Coppell left us with was far superior to any squad any other manager we've had has inherited. The squad Rodgers was left with should have been easily made to be approaching the quality of the one Coppell inherited.

There are parrallels, only one decent striker, a defence in decline, promising players to develop...

[PEARCEY]

Those players were brought in over several windows and in fact more than one season, but don't let facts or reality enter your argument.

You said nothing about transfer windows...

Has any other manager in our history had to sell £12 million worth of players in one transfer window Ian?

We sold best part of £10 million re Kitson and Shorey and spent very little of that on Noel Hunt and not much else in that transfer window so theres not much in it Royalee...other than that Copps still managed to get us challenging for promotion whilst under Rodgers we were fighting relegation.

[Ian Royal]

LOL - he's not going to like that!

[Southbank Old Boy]

I don't really know or care about the vitriol between Royalee, Ideal and Ian Royal et al, but to suggest that BR wasn't so bad, ignores so many mistakes and unforced errors as to severely damage any of the salient points made in his defence.

De facto he was not a brilliant manager, a brilliant manager does not make half the poor judgement calls he made, whatever the reasons!

It just doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

Which poor judgement calls?

How about the ones you thought yourself for a start, like playing Ingimarsson or Kebe.

How about not having a striker capable of playing and scoring in his preferred system? Or the wingers capable of scoring in his preferred system? Or having a clue how his bloated midfield options could work in his preferred system?

What about spending two thirds of his budget on a player he didn't seem to want to play?

// I rather thought it would be obvious to compare like for like. Clearly not for you.
Has any other Manager had significantly more than £12m worth of talent available to them?

You are ignoring the point I made that the squad Coppell left us with was far superior to any squad any other manager we've had has inherited. The squad Rodgers was left with should have been easily made to be approaching the quality of the one Coppell inherited.

There are parrallels, only one decent striker, a defence in decline, promising players to develop...

What manager doesnt make selections that people dont always agree with?

I dont think Ivar should be playing, but then McD seems to think he should as well, does that mean we should sack him?

Coppel couldnt work out the midfield conundrum he left himself by bringing in the glutony of average midfielders, does that mean he was a rubbish manager?

Coppell twice blew his transfer budget on his most expesive signing and never played them, does that mean he didnt have a clue?

I dont get the view that the squad Coppell left was far superior to the one he took over. Once we sold off the crown jewells the one left behind wasnt as good as the one Coppell took over

[Ian Royal]

I'm not arguing with you, because you don't think Brendan Rodgers was doing a great job and would solve all our problems.

[Royalee]

I don't really know or care about the vitriol between Royalee, Ideal and Ian Royal et al, but to suggest that BR wasn't so bad, ignores so many mistakes and unforced errors as to severely damage any of the salient points made in his defence.

De facto he was not a brilliant manager, a brilliant manager does not make half the poor judgement calls he made, whatever the reasons!

It just doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

Which poor judgement calls?

How about the ones you thought yourself for a start, like playing Ingimarsson or Kebe. Mills was new to the team and Ingimarsson was captain - with our young team I can see why he opted for experience. We had no other recognised out and out first team wingers at the club other than McAnuff and Kebe - Robson-Kanu's a youngster and Sigurdsson's a central midfielder and he still tried both of those to his credit

How about not having a striker capable of playing and scoring in his preferred system? Or the wingers capable of scoring in his preferred system? Or having a clue how his bloated midfield options could work in his preferred system? Rasiak was our top scorer, so he did. McAnuff was our best player who was the only winger he was able to bring in and he'd more recently played a more settled midfield where we started winning against Coventry, Blackpool and Sheffield Wednesday

What about spending two thirds of his budget on a player he didn't seem to want to play? Mills wasn't fit when he signed and he wanted to slowly blood him in as I said. Do you remember Emerse Fae or Greg Halford? He played Mills 6 times, which is more than either of those two turned out for us in the league

// I rather thought it would be obvious to compare like for like. Clearly not for you.
Has any other Manager had significantly more than £12m worth of talent available to them? Quite possibly given that the likes of Hahnemann, Shorey, Sidwell, Murty, Forster and co were in their prime when Coppell took over and would therefore have been very highly valued, along with players like Murray, Goater, Hughes etc being worth £500k each

You are ignoring the point I made that the squad Coppell left us with was far superior to any squad any other manager we've had has inherited. The squad Rodgers was left with should have been easily made to be approaching the quality of the one Coppell inherited. Whaaaaat? Did Pardew's side perform anywhere near as badly in their second half of 02/03 as Coppell's did? Then if you took £12 million worth of player out of that do you think they'd have been 'easily capable' of coming 4th again?

There are parrallels, only one decent striker, a defence in decline, promising players to develop...Forster and Henderson - two proven Championship strikers which is more than we have now, plus Tyson who was at the same level as Church, and Goater who had scored goals in the Premiership the season before. Were Hahnemann, Murty and Shorey all in decline then?

[Royalee]

I'm not arguing with you, because you don't think Brendan Rodgers was doing a great job and would solve all our problems.

You're not arguing because you can't back up your argument properly. The point is that it cannot be proved whether Rodgers was doing a great job or a poor job because he didn't have the time to prove either scenario correct, contrary to what you'll have everyone believe. My opinion was and still is that Rodgers is a very good manager who would have improved us no end, but I have been neither proven right nor wrong as there wasn't enough time to tell.

[ROKERITE]

I'm not arguing with you, because you don't think Brendan Rodgers was doing a great job and would solve all our problems.

You're not arguing because you can't back up your argument properly. The point is that it cannot be proved whether Rodgers was doing a great job or a poor job because he didn't have the time to prove either scenario correct, contrary to what you'll have everyone believe. My opinion was and still is that Rodgers is a very good manager who would have improved us no end, but I have been neither proven right nor wrong as there wasn't enough time to tell.

Exactly!

[Sun Tzu]

Sorry Royalee but that is not logical.

Rodgers may turn out to be a good manager but on the evidence available he did not do a good job for us, and it really hurts me to say that.

I could accept some poor results in a transitional period but he really didn;t give any sign that he knew where the problems were or what needed doing.

I would agree that he didn;t have enough time to prove himself but at best it leaves an 'unproven' verdict. Much like Hamer did not have enough to do on Saturday to show whether he will or won;t be a decent keeper....

[Ian Royal]

Sigh.

It can certainly be shown he was doing a poor job. It can't be shown that he would have continued to do a poor job or would have been poor in the long run.

[Southbank Old Boy]

I'm not arguing with you, because you don't think Brendan Rodgers was doing a great job and would solve all our problems.

Eh?

[Royalee]

Sorry Royalee but that is not logical.

Rodgers may turn out to be a good manager but on the evidence available he did not do a good job for us, and it really hurts me to say that.

I could accept some poor results in a transitional period but he really didn;t give any sign that he knew where the problems were or what needed doing.

I would agree that he didn;t have enough time to prove himself but at best it leaves an 'unproven' verdict. Much like Hamer did not have enough to do on Saturday to show whether he will or won;t be a decent keeper....

I'm not saying there was firm evidence to suggest either way, I'm saying that I think that he was taking the right steps, but nothing has proven me right or wrong. I wanted him to get more time and am angry at Madejski for not giving him this and also not willing to accept that he was a 'failure' as he only had one transfer window and not enough time to build his team.

[Royalee]

Sigh.

It can certainly be shown he was doing a poor job. It can't be shown that he would have continued to do a poor job or would have been poor in the long run.

How can it be shown that he was doing a poor job? Do you have another instance where similar restraints and starting points were present for a Reading manager? The answer is of course no.

[Royalee]

it cannot be proved whether Rodgers was doing a great job or a poor job because he didn't have the time to prove either scenario correct

That is your opinion, and not a statement of fact. You can not portray it as a statement of fact, since it is clearly not anything other than simply your opinion.
As your opinion is based on trying to avoid having to come to terms with your judgement on Rodgers' ability having been wrrrrrrroooooooooooonnnnnng, nobody really cares much for it. HTH

That there was not enough time to clearly show whether Rodgers would have been a success or a failure is FACT Ideal, whether you like it or not. Had Sir Alex Ferguson been judged over a similar short period of time then he too would have been sacked and deemed a 'failure' by the likes of you and Ian Royal.

[Ian Royal]

Was taking us into a relegation fight a good job?

Was it an ok performance?

The answer to both of those is No. Therefore he was most definitely doing a bad job.

Fewer than 10 games is too soon to make a judgement on a manager. Half a season is time enough to know someone is not performing well enough. It doesn't matter how good he might have been. He wasn't doing a good enough job to retain his job. It's really very simple.

And now, after backing Madejski and blaming everything on Coppell, Royalee is left with no option but to acknowledge he was wrong and Rodgers was a failure, or to switch and begin blaming Madejski and co.

And we can all see clearly which he has chosen.