Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Rex]

Just a very quick one for the more discerning of you here. IF Portsmouth cease to exist, i am led to believe their points will be wiped out, again transforming league positioning. Now if they do cease as a club instead of the three going down it would mean two going down presumably but the dynamics of the PL table could drastically change putting clubs currently outside of the relegation zone into it. Can anyone see this happening and the PL allowing this to happen?



This could be a major can of worms that will knock on to the other leagues and surely court cases flying around everywhere.

Or does the PL allow Portsmouth to sell players and give them their parachute payment early to stave off the creditors, allow then to exist and get relegated thus keeping the status quo in the leagues.

[leww_rfc]

Does this mean we can get Tommy Smith now?

Having a medical while I type

Makes sense..

[paultheroyal]

Why would only two go up from championship? Don't understand your logic or scenario!

[Rex]

Just re-read that and got rid of it. Lol.

[paultheroyal]

Just re-read that and got rid of it. Lol.

nice dodge

[Rex]

Actually thinking about it more i was still sort of correct.

Portsmouth cease to exist. 2 clubs relegated from the PL. 3 up from the Championship. This leave the championship with 23 teams.

[Deadlock]

Just a very quick one for the more discerning of you here. IF Portsmouth cease to exist, i am led to believe their points will be wiped out, again transforming league positioning. Now if they do cease as a club instead of the three going down it would mean two going down presumably but the dynamics of the PL table could drastically change putting clubs currently outside of the relegation zone into it. Can anyone see this happening and the PL allowing this to happen?

That is what normally happens when a club goes out of business during the season. It's what happened when both Aldershot and Accrington Stanley folded (though neither were in the top division at the time).

The only case I can think of where it didn't happen was when Leeds City were expelled from the League for financial irregularities after eight games in 1919. In their case Port Vale took over their results and played out the rest of the season.

[Jimmy the Tree]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7266635/Fifa-unmoved-by-Portsmouth-plea-for-flexibility-to-sell-outside-transfer-window.html

Fifa unmoved by Portsmouth plea for flexibility to sell outside transfer window
Fifa, world football’s governing body, is expected to notify Portsmouth formally on Friday that it is not prepared to make any exceptions to its transfer window rules.


By Jeremy Wilson


Published: 9:27PM GMT 18 Feb 2010
Portsmouth ask to sell players outside transfer window

Portsmouth had asked the Premier League if they could sell players outside the summer and January windows as they seek to generate extra revenue amid demands from a variety of creditors, including the winding-up petition from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs.

The request has been passed to the Football Association and Fifa, who will make the final decision. However, it is understood that Fifa is extremely unlikely to grant Portsmouth’s request, despite a High Court hearing on March 1 that could result in the club being liquidated.

“We have put in a request to sell players outside the transfer window. It is something we are exploring,” said a Portsmouth spokesman.

Having opposed the January sales of Younes Kaboul and Asmir Begovic, manager Avram Grant has repeatedly said that the club must not lose any more players.

Having lodged a Statement of Affairs with the High Court on Wednesday, Portsmouth also remain in talks with two potential buyers.

England goalkeeper David James, meanwhile, has declared himself fully fit for the friendly against Egypt on March 3 for what would be his first international start for almost a year. “There were a couple of things that needed tightening up about my Southampton performance, but I was happy,” he said.

[rabidbee]

All I know is it would kill if this was happening to Reading.

Of course, but this is the kind of situation many have been calling for. I don't recall too many Pompey fans protesting when the big-money first arrived. They made their bed, as far as I'm concerned.

I understand what you are getting at and it's a lesson, but it's incredibley harsh to blame them though.

The Chairman, The Chief Exec and The Manager are all responsible and yet as I said what do Gaydamak, Storrie and Redknapp lose out of all this?

I don't know any Pompey fans personally, so maybe there was a genuine sense of scepticism and concern when Gaydamak turned up.

I have talked to plenty of Man City fans when they were in a similar situation (both with the shady money of Shinawatra and now the Abu Dhabi guys), and they couldn't take the money fast enough. No concerns whatsoever about the involvement of foreign businessmen in their club, so long as they were pumping in millions, no concern about Shinawatra's background and only hostility to any idea that he might be blocked by the FA as not fit and proper. No concern that having all of these expensive players on huge salaries could be mortgaging the future - the Abu Dhabi guys wouldn't want to lose face, and the'd rather lose a couple of hundred million quietly than admit they're a bit skint, apparently. So, all fine whilst the cash flows, but when it doesn't anymore?...

So, I probably am being harsh to Pompey fans on the experience of chatting to fans of other clubs. But I don't remember many Pompey fans protesting when sugar-daddy Gaydamak went out and bought them a new midfield soon after he arrived.

If it looks too good to be true, it often is.

[Jimmy the Tree]

Any bets on whether this actually comes off?

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Consortium-close-to-Pompey-takeover.6087096.jp

Consortium close to Pompey takeover
18 February 2010
By Neil Allen

A South African consortium has emerged as the potential saviours of Portsmouth Football Club.
The News understands the unnamed group is close to sealing a deal to secure the Blues' future.

Discussions with Balram Chainrai's people over the issue of proof of funds are on-going.

Yet it is believed negotiations are well down the road towards finalising a takeover before the weekend is over.

It represents the precious lifeline Pompey fans have prayed for, with the club on the brink of going out of existence.

The consortium – which is chiefly South African but also made up of other nationalities – are eager to complete before the prospect of administration.

They see investment as a long-term commitment and have already factored in the possibility of playing Championship football next season.

Pompey are desperate to find a buyer before their March 1 High Court date over their outstanding HM Revenue & Customs bill.

As a result, chief executive Peter Storrie and head of finance Tanya Robins have worked tirelessly behind the scenes to strike a deal with an interested party.

Now it appears the Blues are on the verge of a fifth owner of the season.

Most important of all, it comes with the promise of the club remaining in existence.

[Dirk Gently]

Chester, at last, appear to be dead.

CONFERENCE STATEMENT ON CHESTER CITY

The of the Football Conference today (18th February 2010); met with representatives of Chester City (2004) FC, when the club pleaded guilty to all five counts with which they were charged.

These included those in respect of failing to fulfil fixtures, non payment of Football Creditors, failing to attend satisfactorily to competition business and bringing the competition into disrepute.

At the conclusion of a lengthy meeting, the representatives were advised that the Board failed to be convinced with their presentation that the club were able to demonstrate the club's ability to fulfil future fixtures in the competition and as a consequence informed the club of their finding in relation to Conference Rule 8.6.

In compliance with Article 5.2 of the Football Conference, the Board will recommend to its Member Clubs that Chester City (2004) FC should face expulsion from membership. To facilitate this recommendation the Board are now legally mandated to convene a General Meeting of Member Clubs to, receive, deliberate and vote on the said recommendation to expel in consideration of Rule 8.6 and Article 5.2. Until the meeting is held the club will remain suspended from the competition and their representatives
suitably advised as to any future plans or presentations they may well wish to pursue against the recommendation of the Board to its Member Clubs.

The date and venue of the meeting is subject to final clarification.

[Dirk Gently]

Just a very quick one for the more discerning of you here. IF Portsmouth cease to exist, i am led to believe their points will be wiped out, again transforming league positioning. Now if they do cease as a club instead of the three going down it would mean two going down presumably but the dynamics of the PL table could drastically change putting clubs currently outside of the relegation zone into it. Can anyone see this happening and the PL allowing this to happen?

That is what normally happens when a club goes out of business during the season. It's what happened when both Aldershot and Accrington Stanley folded (though neither were in the top division at the time).

The only case I can think of where it didn't happen was when Leeds City were expelled from the League for financial irregularities after eight games in 1919. In their case Port Vale took over their results and played out the rest of the season.

Hmmmm, there are other options ..... but a couple of assumptions in this.

IF Pompey go bust rather than just into administration, and IF Pompey fans form an AFC Portsmouth (although, in fact, they have the legal rights to the name Portsmouth Football Club) the FA's League's Committee would have to decide "the most appropriate place" for the new club to start. It turns out that they don't necessarily start at the very bottom, as a team with 18k supporters would swamp step 7 grounds..... so there's a suggestion that they'd start at Conference/Conf South level, so the gap left in Tier 2 would be filled by promoting one extra from the leagues between Conf/SConf South to make the gap there.

[Jimmy the Tree]

They are queuing up to buy Portsmouth now! I'll believe it when I see it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/19/portsmouth-ownership-victor-cattermole

Portsmouth pin survival hopes on fifth owner of the season

• Hong Kong company will pay off debts within a year
• Club seek permission to sell players outside transfer window

* Jamie Jackson
* The Guardian, Friday 19 February 2010

Portsmouth

Portsmouth could have a fifth owner this season after the Guardian learned that Endeavor Plan, a Hong Kong-based investment company, has viewed documents relating to the club's financial position and has informed Pompey's chief executive, Peter Storrie, of its interest in buying out the current owner, Balram Chainrai. It has suggested that 30 days' due diligence may be required before being able to complete.

Endeavor Plan, said to have interestsin New Zealand, Hong Kong and the United States, received the documentation from Storrie, who has been conducting negotiations to seek a new buyer or fresh investment alone. He spoke to Endeavor's owner, the New Zealand businessman Victor Cattermole, earlier this week and Cattermole confirmed his interest in writing.

It is understood that Endeavor has said that, should any buy-out be successful, the company is confident of clearing all debts to Portsmouth's creditors within a year. It is also thought that Endeavor's interest in buying was included in the statement of affairs lodged with the high court on Wednesday, before Her Majesty's Revenue and Custom's winding-up petition, which will be heard on 1 March. The hearing is for £12.1m in VAT, PAYE and National Insurance, though the club are disputing a sum of £7.1m in VAT.

Portsmouth had been given a seven-day adjournment to compile the statement of affairs, which was drawn up by the accountants Vantis. The club hope Endeavor's inclusion in the document will help convince the court that they are solvent and can continue as a going concern, rather than having to enter administration or being wound up.

The club's chances of avoiding these two eventualities could further be strengthened if they can advance negotiations with Cattermole before the 1 March hearing and provide material evidence of this for the court. There is said to be a second potential buyer, whose interest may also have been included in the SOA.

Cattermole's claim that Portsmouth could be free of their financial problems within a year may depend on him being able to reach agreements with the club's creditors. Sacha Gaydamak, the former owner who sold to Sulaiman al-Fahim last August, is owed around £30.5m, while Chainrai is due at least £17m.

In a separate development yesterday Portsmouth's desperation to avoid administration was further illustrated when they asked the Premier League to consider allowing them to sell players as soon as possible, outside the normal biannual transfer windows. A club spokesman said: "I can confirm we have put in a request to the Premier League to sell players outside the transfer window. It is something we are exploring."

While the governing body is considering the request, it will first have to ask the Football Association and Fifa for permission to allow it. It is thought Fifa may not be minded to grant permission due to the number of clubs around the world that also have financial problems. The world governing body would be concerned that it may set a precedent .

Fahim, meanwhile, has been advised by his legal team to resign as a director and Portsmouth's non-executive ­chairman to avoid any potential case against him, should the club have legal difficulties.

A source close to the businessman also told the Guardian that the 32-year-old has began an action against a journalist for the National, a United Arab Emirates newspaper which two days ago published the claim that an arrest warrant had been issued for Fahim regarding a £1.4m debt.

The source claimed: "Sulaiman's lawyers are asking him to resign as a director and chairman due to the lack of financial information he has received. They also feel the club is being run while insolvent.

"They want him to resign to avoid any potential legal case against him as a director, especially as Sulaiman has not attended one board meeting since he sold 90% of his shares to Ali al-Faraj [in October]."

With regard to the legal proceedings against the journalist the source added: "Sulaiman has today begun the action."

Portsmouth declined to comment on Cattermole's interest or Fahim's potential resignation. There is, though, a view on the south coast that as owner for 43 days Fahim may bear some responsibility for the club's current situation.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Surprise, surprise last minute saviour turns up

[The whole year inn]

Surprise, surprise last minute saviour turns up

Yep. Anyone that thinks Portsmouth are going to fold is living on Button Moon

[Stranded]

Somebody was always going to be stupid enough to buy them.

[PieEater]

I still wonder how they managed to loan Jamie O'Hara from Spurs, and presumably pay his salary at the expense of their other creditors, when they were clearly insolvent.

The talk of massive debts may not be as bad as people think if Gaydamak can be persuaded to write off all or part of the debt. i.e it may be soft debt. He was the one everyone thought was bankrolling their success, but now it turns out they were loans and he wants it all back? Doesn't quite add up.

[Barry the bird boggler]

And they were ludicrously allowed to bring players in in January.

Least they're going down though so at least there's some just desserts.

[Royal With Cheese]

I'd give them the 30 days due dilligence with the caveat that the law firm and Portsmouth management team responsible for all the delays are financially liable for any debt accrues during this new period.

[Comfortably Numb]

David Gold, now on my hit list of football pcunts, has offered Portsmouth £10m as a loan if the club want it and the Premier League sanction it.

They were never going to be allowed to go bust. Just be glad the fckers are going down, and hopefully with a points deduction carrying into next season to feck that season up for them too.