Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

I don't find this situation amusing; I find it desperately sad for Football. BUT I feel that this state of affairs in the game has to stop, and the first step to that is for a big club, a club with history and fans and which means a lot to the local community to go to the wall, as desperately sad as it will be to those involved in that club. Once that happens, everyone else will realise what we have got ourselves into and then the will - hopefully - to change will begin.

And lets be honest about something; we as fans bear some responsibility here.

Its us who are forever pressurising the management to spend money on players, or else denouncing chairmen for not putting their hand into their pocket........... read back over some of the posts made on HNA? over the last 3 seasons for example.

You add pressure/expectation from the fans, to ego in the boardroom, and greed with the players and their agents and what you get are all the ingredients for a disaster; all that was neccesary was the match to light the whole thing, and that was provided by Sky's money.

Football is, I'm afraid, as corrupt as the Houses of Parliament, and needs as much of a clean up.

A very well written response. Logical and understanding the situation. I can't find any fault with what you say, I just hope for Pompey fans that is doesn't happen and football learns its lesson, esp the Premier League. I do fear, regardless, the lesson won't be learnt. Sadly this has all happened before and it will all happen again.


Appoligies for linking you with the more moronic memebers of the thread....

[rabidbee]

"Football" won't learn the lesson, though. There will always be pressure to succeed, and as soon as one clubs relents to the pressure and ups the ante, it's competitors will feel forced to respond, and we'll be back into the old arms race again.

I agree with that.
In the Premiership, its driven by the money in the CL and the odd rich investor. Clubs that can't afford to spend money keeping up with teams that have many many millions more.

IT ENDS IN TEARS

Except in other countries and other sports where it's been applied they have learnt the lesson. In Germay clubs have been relegated for not sticking to the financial rules, dtto in Australian Rugby League. When teh penalties are sufficinetly hardsh (in competitive terms) and there is effective forensic accounting to ensure that clubs will get caught then it does work.

And I bet that owners would love it too - to have an excuse to get off the unwwinnable conveyer belt of more money for players' and their wages . They all want to pay less rather than subsidise their club - but none can afford to be the first one to do it.

That's good if there's a will to impose it, and the league has the power to enforce the rules. It has to come from the clubs themselves, though, otherwise I still think it will prove too unworkable. It's too easy to get around a salary cap (or whatever) by paying in kind. It's a completely different scale, but I remember ice hockey clubs used to break the league wage cap (a self-imposed wage cap, given that the league was run by the owners of the clubs, a bit like the PL) by paying the star players £50 p/w to play but employing them at the rinks as zamboni drivers for a grand a week.

[The Reverend]

Well played Sol...

As the taxman pursues Premier League footballers for £100m in image-rights income, it seems fitting that events at Portsmouth should have had a major hand in the development.

We all know that Harry Redknapp, Milan Mandaric and Peter Storrie called Fratton Park home at the time they are accused of having cheated the public revenue. But it is the club's dealings with a fourth figure that have informed much of HM Revenue & Customs' current assault on players' image rights.

Sol Campbell issued a high court writ against the club last month demanding payment of £1.67m allegedly owed in unpaid earnings, and the breakdown he provided has alarmed the taxman. In 2008, the year Pompey won the FA Cup, Campbell was picking up £30,000 a week. But Campbell claims he was also contracted to earn an equivalent sum through an offshore trust in return for the use of his image in commercial, sponsorship and endorsement deals.

Portsmouth's accounts break down how the club's £70.5m 2008 turnover was achieved. There was £49.2m from being in the Premier League. A further £12m from match-day revenues, £2m from winning the FA Cup and about £7.2m from retail and sponsorship. So to recap: only 10% of Portsmouth's income in 2008 was from commercial and sponsorship streams. Meanwhile Campbell was due to earn 50% or £1.5m of his income for image rights, meaning a fifth of all monies (not profits, mind) Pompey generated from these areas was allegedly contracted to go straight into his offshore account.

There is nothing wrong in this, so long as Campbell paid the tax, and since he allegedly did not receive it there was presumably nothing to pay tax on. But it shows why HMRC is on the case.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... age-rights

Hated by Spurs. And every other player?

[Royal Rother]

I have a tiny suspicion that HMRC might just have been aware of the image rights issue prior to Sol Campbell's revelation.

Still, he's long a been a popular target for abuse.

[Uke]

Another Pompey "solution" falls at the first step

One of the parties interested in buying troubled Portsmouth has revealed he will not be able to take over the club ahead of Monday's winding up petition.

New Zealand-based businessman Victor Cattermole is considering buying Pompey through his investment group but said nothing will happen before Monday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 527495.stm

[Comfortably Numb]

That Chanrai what's his face has said he will not allow the club to to go bust, he will instead take control of the club for the forseeable future. He will though apply for voluntary administration and take the 9 point points deduction as he believes the club can not now stay up - The Sun.

All we might see out of this is a relegation.

[TFF]

The parachute money's already spent though. I can't see Pompey being even close to financially stable in the Championship, especially if they didn't bounce back first attempt.

They'd be looking at finding a buyer who'd clear the debts before even beginning to think about restructuring the club and team for another tilt at the big time. Their ground is shit and needs redeveloping/moving but they don't own the land around it so it's worth fcuk all.

There are better Championship prospects for some idiot wanting to buy into football.

[Uke]

That Chanrai what's his face has said he will not allow the club to to go bust, he will instead take control of the club for the forseeable future. He will though apply for voluntary administration and take the 9 point points deduction as he believes the club can not now stay up - The Sun.

All we might see out of this is a relegation.

A club in administration can still be wound up and there also has be someone willing to take on the role of Administrator

[Arch]

That Chanrai what's his face has said he will not allow the club to to go bust, he will instead take control of the club for the forseeable future. He will though apply for voluntary administration and take the 9 point points deduction as he believes the club can not now stay up - The Sun.

All we might see out of this is a relegation.

A club in administration can still be wound up and there also has be someone willing to take on the role of Administrator

Yep. All that administration does is put someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the club's finances in charge. It doesn't make the finances any better. Any potential administrator has to believe the club is viable.

[Comfortably Numb]

That Chanrai what's his face has said he will not allow the club to to go bust, he will instead take control of the club for the forseeable future. He will though apply for voluntary administration and take the 9 point points deduction as he believes the club can not now stay up - The Sun.

All we might see out of this is a relegation.

A club in administration can still be wound up and there also has be someone willing to take on the role of Administrator

Yep. All that administration does is put someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the club's finances in charge. It doesn't make the finances any better. Any potential administrator has to believe the club is viable.

I think that's what this Chanrai (sp?) is saying. He will take control for the forseeable future, provide the proof he can make the club viable, and then when this court case is out the way, they enter voluntary administration and take the points deduction on the chin as he now believes they are all but relegated. Then he will continue his pursuit for a new owner.

[Uke]

I think that's what this Chanrai (sp?) is saying. He will take control for the forseeable future, provide the proof he can make the club viable, and then when this court case is out the way, they enter voluntary administration and take the points deduction on the chin as he now believes they are all but relegated. Then he will continue his pursuit for a new owner.

So to get his 27 milion(?) loan back he is willing to bankroll Pompey to the tune of 70 million? Er...

I think you may be confusing press speculation with what he is actually saying

[Messiah]

I think that's what this Chanrai (sp?) is saying. He will take control for the forseeable future, provide the proof he can make the club viable, and then when this court case is out the way, they enter voluntary administration and take the points deduction on the chin as he now believes they are all but relegated. Then he will continue his pursuit for a new owner.

So to get his 27 milion(?) loan back he is willing to bankroll Pompey to the tune of 70 million? Er...

I think you may be confusing press speculation with what he is actually saying

I think I read the same/similar article to this, and there was a mention of ensuring the football club repayed him £1m a year for the length of the balance. I apologise if that's not right, I'm not usually a Pun reader. I was having a good scooby at the norks on page 3 when the paper was rudely turned to the sports pages.

It amazes me that there are people who (apparently) are willing to piss money away on Portsmouth. There are far better (and arguably bigger) clubs that you could take over for less money and with far more potential for getting a decent return on your money. So why do people do it?

Southampton were a bargain at £15m (which got them a debt free club including the ground fully paid off). I'd imagine Crystal Palace would be a far better option than Portsmouth, cheaper and lots of potential.

One of the comments made me laugh, they referred to Portsmouth as a Premier League club (they won't be in about 10 weeks time) with a rich history (of being shit?) and well worth saving

[Comfortably Numb]

I think that's what this Chanrai (sp?) is saying. He will take control for the forseeable future, provide the proof he can make the club viable, and then when this court case is out the way, they enter voluntary administration and take the points deduction on the chin as he now believes they are all but relegated. Then he will continue his pursuit for a new owner.

So to get his 27 milion(?) loan back he is willing to bankroll Pompey to the tune of 70 million? Er...

I think you may be confusing press speculation with what he is actually saying

Probably

[Uke]

I think that's what this Chanrai (sp?) is saying. He will take control for the forseeable future, provide the proof he can make the club viable, and then when this court case is out the way, they enter voluntary administration and take the points deduction on the chin as he now believes they are all but relegated. Then he will continue his pursuit for a new owner.

So to get his 27 milion(?) loan back he is willing to bankroll Pompey to the tune of 70 million? Er...

I think you may be confusing press speculation with what he is actually saying

Probably

He's trying to talk up the club in advance of Monday to try and save what he can of his money.

It's all just marketing BS

[Arch]

Interesting point. Has anyone other than someone with a desperate financial interest in Portsmouth's survival been the source of any takeover rumours?

[Uke]

Cardiff''s clearly a better bet than Pompey, but doesn't seem to be as talked up.

Perhaps they actually have interested parties and appropriate, enforceable, condentiality agreements that occur when someone actually does due diligence checks?

[Silver Fox]

Interesting point. Has anyone other than someone with a desperate financial interest in Portsmouth's survival been the source of any takeover rumours?

I'm starting to think Pompey's tactic on monday will be to just tell the judge they've got a few people interested so would it be alright if they carry on as they are until they can get that sorted. Is it at all possible that they're so skint they can't afford legal represnetation so are just making this all up as they go along?

[exileinleeds]

Chaerai says he PFC will be put into admin on Friday unless a white knight is found before then.

PL happy because then their results will stand and they can limp on to the end of the season.

[Silver Fox]

I don't understand business and that but I was under the impression that administration has to be an option whereby an administrator can run the club and try to sort it out (doesn't appear possible as no buyer will take on that level of debt) and the creditors need to accept it. Why would HMRC accept administration when they've gone to the effort of applying for a winding up order and are completely against the football creditors rule?

[Uke]

Administration means someone else is running the club

Shirley the courts can still shut it down