Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Barry the bird boggler]

I think its only carried over IF it happened after March.......if you go into administration before the "deadline" then you avoid it

I thought the dealine was a date in March, just not sure when. We can only hope. If not, where is the punishment. Come on FL, bring the hammer down.

It's the 4th Thursday in March - the same date as transfer deadline day. But that's only in the FL - the PL rules leave themselves a lot more discretion.

i.e. make it up as they go along so as not to upset any of the big clubs in the division.

[Elm Park]

I think its only carried over IF it happened after March.......if you go into administration before the "deadline" then you avoid it

I thought the dealine was a date in March, just not sure when. We can only hope. If not, where is the punishment. Come on FL, bring the hammer down.

It's the 4th Thursday in March - the same date as transfer deadline day. But that's only in the FL - the PL rules leave themselves a lot more discretion.

Form the football league website: http://www.football-league.co.uk/static ... 888,00.pdf

12.3.1 With effect from the 10th May 2004, if any Club shall: -
a have a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of
that Club or any part of its undertaking or assets;
b have an administration order made in respect of that Club;
c have a winding-up order made in respect of that Club;
d pass a resolution for the winding-up of that Club;
e enter into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in
respect of the payment of its debts or part of them as a company
voluntary arrangement under the Insolvency Act 1986 or Scheme of
Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985; or
f have any proceeding or step taken or any court order in any
jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of
the foregoing;
that Club shall be deducted 10 points.
12.3.2 Where the Club takes or suffers such action as set out in Regulation 12.5.3:-
a at any time during the Normal Playing Season, the points deduction
shall apply immediately;
b outside the Normal Playing Season, the points deduction shall apply in
respect of the following Season such that the Club starts that Season
on minus 10 points.

[TBM]

I think its only carried over IF it happened after March.......if you go into administration before the "deadline" then you avoid it

I thought the dealine was a date in March, just not sure when. We can only hope. If not, where is the punishment. Come on FL, bring the hammer down.

Yeah but didn't Portsmouth enter administration at the end of Feb????

[Dirk Gently]

It's the 4th Thursday in March - the same date as transfer deadline day. But that's only in the FL - the PL rules leave themselves a lot more discretion.

Form the football league website: http://www.football-league.co.uk/static ... 888,00.pdf

12.3.1 With effect from the 10th May 2004, if any Club shall: -
a have a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of
that Club or any part of its undertaking or assets;
b have an administration order made in respect of that Club;
c have a winding-up order made in respect of that Club;
d pass a resolution for the winding-up of that Club;
e enter into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in
respect of the payment of its debts or part of them as a company
voluntary arrangement under the Insolvency Act 1986 or Scheme of
Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985; or
f have any proceeding or step taken or any court order in any
jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of
the foregoing;
that Club shall be deducted 10 points.
12.3.2 Where the Club takes or suffers such action as set out in Regulation 12.5.3:-
a at any time during the Normal Playing Season, the points deduction
shall apply immediately;
b outside the Normal Playing Season, the points deduction shall apply in
respect of the following Season such that the Club starts that Season
on minus 10 points.

That's the 2004 FL rulebook, for some reason. They amended the rules at the AGM in June 2007 : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6736997.stm

The Football League has closed the loophole that allowed Leeds to go into administration without suffering a 10-point deduction for next season.

From next season any club going into administration after the fourth Thursday in March will have their 10-point deduction suspended.

If the club is relegated the points will be deducted from their tally at the start of next season.

If the club stays up the 10 points will be taken off their final total.

The club would then go down if the 10-point deduction subsequently resulted in it slipping into a relegation place.

The rule change was passed unanimously by the 72 chairmen of the Football League at their annual general meeting in Portugal.

[Maquisard]

The rule change was passed unanimously by the 72 chairmen of the Football League at their annual general meeting in Portugal.

Portugal? So they took the meeting dead seriously then, no using it as an excuse for a jolly like some people might do. I'm pretty sure AGMs aree supposed to be held in accessible places.

[Mr Angry]

I'm sure that they will be hit with a points deduction if they haven't agreed a CVA by the end of July; as HMRC always oppose CVA's, this may well happen.

[Ian Royal]

I'm sure that they will be hit with a points deduction if they haven't agreed a CVA by the end of July; as HMRC always oppose CVA's, this may well happen.

Don't HMRC have to have a big enough slice of the debt to cause that? It's fairly rare for a club to be docked points twice for going into and out of administration I thought...

I suspect Pompey will start next season on the same total as us.

[Dirk Gently]

The rule change was passed unanimously by the 72 chairmen of the Football League at their annual general meeting in Portugal.

Portugal? So they took the meeting dead seriously then, no using it as an excuse for a jolly like some people might do. I'm pretty sure AGMs aree supposed to be held in accessible places.

Thomas Cook generally ship them all out there for the AGM.

[TFF]

I'm sure that they will be hit with a points deduction if they haven't agreed a CVA by the end of July; as HMRC always oppose CVA's, this may well happen.

Don't HMRC have to have a big enough slice of the debt to cause that? It's fairly rare for a club to be docked points twice for going into and out of administration I thought...

I suspect Pompey will start next season on the same total as us.

HMRC only dropped their opposition to the administration once they'd examined the accounts. They'll be a big enough creditor to oppose the CVA.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I'm sure that they will be hit with a points deduction if they haven't agreed a CVA by the end of July; as HMRC always oppose CVA's, this may well happen.

Don't HMRC have to have a big enough slice of the debt to cause that? It's fairly rare for a club to be docked points twice for going into and out of administration I thought...

I suspect Pompey will start next season on the same total as us.

I hope not, otherwise it'll pretty much mean they'll have got away scot free.

After all, even with the parachute money already paid, you can pretty much bet they'll happily put out a team they have no chance of affording in the hope of going up next year.

[PieEater]

I posted that a few pages back, one of the reasons HMRC opposed administration was when they saw the figures on debts it diluted what they were owed as a percentage to around 20%, so there is every chance a CVA will be agreed.

[Sun Tzu]

I see the Pomey adminstrator describes the points deduction as 'terribly unfair'.

Can;t say I understand his logic.

Unfair because Pompey cheated their way to league points, meaning other clubs lost out - maybe even got relegated - due to Pompey spending money they didn;t have ?

Or perhaps unfair because Pompey cheated their way to an FA Cup win that should have gone to someone else ?

It actually seems rather less than a light tap on the wrist for Pompey.

[wolsey]

I see the Pomey adminstrator describes the points deduction as 'terribly unfair'.

Can;t say I understand his logic.

Unfair because Pompey cheated their way to league points, meaning other clubs lost out - maybe even got relegated - due to Pompey spending money they didn;t have ?

Or perhaps unfair because Pompey cheated their way to an FA Cup win that should have gone to someone else ?

It actually seems rather less than a light tap on the wrist for Pompey.

Agreed (Especially if the rumours of a trade off against advancement of funds is to be believed).

Also,

What has it got to do with him? (Apart from the obvious raising his Public profile?) It is an established rule of the competition. If the points deduction rule was thought unreasonable by any number of the Premier League's Members, why hasn't it been contested before it mattered?

(Probably know the answer - "We are the Premier League, the best, richest, most elite, most sellable
Competition in the World of Football)

[Wycombe Royal]

Some news on the Palace takeover front from the Sun:

RAP star P DIDDY plans to put the Cristal into Crystal Palace with a shock bid for the struggling London footie team.
The hip-hop mogul has decided he wants to be the next filthy rich foreign owner of an English club.

And Diddy, real name Sean Combs, is planning to splash some of his reported £360million on the Selhurst Park side who gave Sun columnist IAN WRIGHT his big break in football.

The bankrupt club is in chaos, facing relegation from the Coca-Cola Championship after having ten points docked for going into administration.

Former owner SIMON JORDAN was no stranger to the jet-set - so at least the poor fans are used to flamboyant playboy owners with a taste for the high life.

Diddy's swoop for The Eagles would bring some much needed bling back to south east London.

Last night his UK spokesman confirmed the multi-millionaire is in the market for Palace. He also added that the New Yorker has his eye on another big club.

A source said: "Diddy was in London meeting football fixers a couple of weeks ago. The finance is in place, he's just deciding who he thinks he'll make a bid for.

"Portsmouth were mentioned but he thought Palace were a better idea.

"He could cover their debt and bankroll a return to the Premier League. He liked the name as well."

English football is big business and I'm surprised it's taken the loaded rappers so long to get involved.

I only live round the corner from Palace and I'd be happy to show Diddy the best pubs in Forest Hill and East Dulwich.

He'd be welcome to a can of Irn-Bru at Smart Towers too.

There's some Selhurst Park history that I can fill him in on.

It was the scene of ERIC CANTONA's kung-fu kick on a fan. DAVID BECKHAM scored his stunning goal from the halfway line for Man Utd when Wimbledon were sharing the ground with Palace.

Speaking of Becks, the crocked star's commercial success in America with LA Galaxy must have had an impact on Diddy. But I think he should be looking north of the border to spend his pennies.

If he bought my team Hibs, he could be P Hibby and park his yacht in the docks in Leith.

[6ft Kerplunk]

I posted that a few pages back, one of the reasons HMRC opposed administration was when they saw the figures on debts it diluted what they were owed as a percentage to around 20%, so there is every chance a CVA will be agreed.

How does the amount owed to HMRC get affected by administration? Is the amount owed fixed at the time the adminstration is deemed legally valid and then any ongoing tax is just paid as usual (not that it appears normal for Pompey to pay any)? If they can't pay the ongoing tax does the adminsistrator have to close them down or can HRMC seek another winding up order?

[Barry the bird boggler]

Joke star K DODDY plans to put the Cristal into Crystal Palace with a shock bid for the struggling London footie team.
The tickling stickmogul has decided he wants to be the next filthy rich scouse owner of an English club.

And Doddy, real name Ken Dodd, is planning to splash some of his reported £360million on the Selhurst Park side who gave Sun columnist IAN WRIGHT his big break in football.

The bankrupt club is in chaos, facing relegation from the Coca-Cola Championship after having ten points docked for going into administration

Former owner SIMON JORDAN was no stranger to the jet-set - so at least the poor fans are used to flamboyant playboy owners with a taste for the high life.

Doddy's swoop for The Eagles would bring some much needed tickling back to south east London.

Last night his UK spokesman confirmed the multi-millionaire is in the market for Palace. He also added that the Knotty Asher has his eye on another big club.

A source said: "Doddy was in London meeting football fixers a couple of weeks ago. The finance is in place, he's just deciding who he thinks he'll make a bid for.

"Portsmouth were mentioned but he thought Palace were a better idea."

[Compo's Hat]

http://www.supporters-direct.org/news/i ... cat=sd_eng

Finances at Cardiff on a knife edge - administration close
A JOINT STATEMENT FROM CARDIFF CITY SUPPORTERS' TRUST and CARDIFF CITY SUPPORTERS' CLUB

Despite being granted a 56-day stay of execution in the High Court last week, it appears that Cardiff City Football Club's future is once again on a knife edge.

We have been reliably informed that administration is virtually inevitable before the end of March if significant new investment in the club has not materialised by then. We understand the Bluebirds' cash reserves are practically exhausted, there is little money available to pay this month's wage bill and debts are now estimated at almost £40 million.

The situation is clearly perilous, although we are led to believe there may be light at the end of the tunnel thanks to a written offer of investment from a Malaysian consortium. The group's front-man, Dato Chan Tien Ghee, is said to be arriving in the UK on Thursday for a series of meetings with Bluebirds' officials, during which the club's fate will effectively be sealed.

The men who appear to hold the key to the football club's future are Cardiff-based property developers Paul Guy and Mike Hall. Their company, PMG, is the club's biggest shareholder and also its largest secured creditor. Consequently, they are certain to be central to any takeover negotiations.

During recent years, PMG has benefited from a series of lucrative land deals connected to the Cardiff City Stadium project. Not only did the company become the sole owner of the successful Capital Retail Park, but it was also chosen to develop and build the Glamorgan Records Office, which stands adjacent to the new stadium.

In addition, PMG recently purchased another large plot of land on the stadium site, upon which a hotel will eventually be developed.

It is clear that PMG has been doing very nicely from its relationship with Cardiff City, but the current state of the football club's finances suggest the benefits of this association have not been entirely mutual.

It should be acknowledged that Paul Guy and Mike Hall were largely instrumental in getting the new stadium project off the ground. They advised on all stadium development issues, while PMG advanced the club £9 million of the funding required to build it. The loan was secured against future income from the Premier Club seating area and attracts interest estimated at £500,000 pa.

In December 2006, while he and his colleagues were in the process of taking control of Cardiff City, Mike Hall claimed the new investors were local people who were interested in the football club's long-term future. He also described former-owner Sam Hammam as being motivated by "total greed and self-interest."

We sincerely hope that Messrs Guy and Hall will not put themselves in a position whereby they will be open to similar accusations from Bluebirds' supporters in the coming weeks. We therefore call upon them to set aside their personal interests and do what is right for Cardiff City Football Club during the critical days ahead.

[Mr Optimist]

Surely by now football clubs would have realised that the words property developer and football club are not a good mix!

[Barry the bird boggler]

Could be the world's shortest occupancy of a shiny new football stadium


although of course we all know they'll be saved at the 11th hour

[PieEater]

I have to laugh at these clubs talking about "investment" like they were some profitable business that was going to get funding to expand or return a profit. What they really want is a no strings attached donation from a rich benefactor as they've already hocked all their assets to secure previous "investments".

So for "investment" read "rich and generous sugar daddy who will keep in the style which we are accustomed ".