Loanwatch 09-10

[Wycombe Royal]

I agree WR, you can't get them all right and you do need to try and find a few bargins along the way, but that also means cutting your loses when it looks like those gambles aren't going to hit it off. The end of Antonio's contract seems the right time to do it for me.

Those I listed above, the Bennets and Sodjes etc, where daft gambles though. When you're in the Premiership you can't be thinking they were ever going to make the step up and be good enough at the time. The likes of Kitson, Doyle, Sonko had time to develop in the Championship and bed into the team and they were more valid gambles.

It's all about balance, and I think we lost that balance between gamble and proven quality in the Premiership...but that's going over very old ground!

THe Bennetts and Sodje's were squad fillers to use in an emergency. We don't have the resources to buy top notch squad players and these players were there just to fill in if needed.

Antonio is young and has had his first taste of league football this season. I haven't seen enough of him to say if he is going to make it and I doubt you have either. Maybe we should have cut our losses on Sigurdsson and Chruch as well when they kept going out on loan for a couple of seasons?

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

I agree WR, you can't get them all right and you do need to try and find a few bargins along the way, but that also means cutting your loses when it looks like those gambles aren't going to hit it off. The end of Antonio's contract seems the right time to do it for me.

Those I listed above, the Bennets and Sodjes etc, where daft gambles though. When you're in the Premiership you can't be thinking they were ever going to make the step up and be good enough at the time. The likes of Kitson, Doyle, Sonko had time to develop in the Championship and bed into the team and they were more valid gambles.

It's all about balance, and I think we lost that balance between gamble and proven quality in the Premiership...but that's going over very old ground!

THe Bennetts and Sodje's were squad fillers to use in an emergency. We don't have the resources to buy top notch squad players and these players were there just to fill in if needed.

Antonio is young and has had his first taste of league football this season. I haven't seen enough of him to say if he is going to make it and I doubt you have either. Maybe we should have cut our losses on Sigurdsson and Chruch as well when they kept going out on loan for a couple of seasons?

But from all of the reports Antonio has been hit and miss. While there was nothing but praise for CHurch and SIg. The club will make the right choice, they nearly always do.

[ZacNaloen]

Church and Sig have two years on Antonio.

He's only just 19, and when we signed him he was an 18 year old from Tooting & Mitcham he immediately made the step up to league 1. That's a big a step-up.

Inconsistency is the hallmark of young players, lets wait till he grows up a bit before writing him off.

In short he still has the potential to be something more, it's too early to give up and sell.

[Wycombe Royal]

But from all of the reports Antonio has been hit and miss. While there was nothing but praise for CHurch and SIg. The club will make the right choice, they nearly always do.

He's a winger, and by nature all but the best wingers are hit and miss. Look no further than Jimmy Kebe (although he is regularly a hit at the moment).

[Kingsley Junior]

Antonio article on adifferentleague today http://www.adifferentleague.co.uk/p6_45 ... tonio.html

[ZacNaloen]

heh, Sigurdssons a year younger than I thought. Shows how good he is really.

[Hoop Blah]

THe Bennetts and Sodje's were squad fillers to use in an emergency. We don't have the resources to buy top notch squad players and these players were there just to fill in if needed.

Antonio is young and has had his first taste of league football this season. I haven't seen enough of him to say if he is going to make it and I doubt you have either. Maybe we should have cut our losses on Sigurdsson and Chruch as well when they kept going out on loan for a couple of seasons?

They were squad players that were never good enough, or likely to be at that time (if we'd been in Championship maybe, but we weren't), we'd have been better off not wasting the money on them and gambling on player a Gunnarsson, Pearce or Cisse there. As it was they were something like 6th or 7th choice centre backs at the time (certainly Sodje was after he was gambled on against Wigan). A total waste of money, and cheap gambles that weren't required.

Like I said, Antonio isn't my type of player, and for me hasn't shown enough quality to make it above the level he already is. That might just be because I'd rather have a player like Little, Henry, Sigurdsson, Bentley, or a Pennant than a Lennon, Kebe or an Antonio.

We shouldn't just get rid of all young players no, but you do have to take a look at them and decide whether you think they're good enough or not. Personally I don't think he is good enough a footballer to play at the level we are looking at. Church, Sigurdsson, Henry, even Kelly and Davies look like they might be and should rightly be kept on.

How many youngsters should we keep around the place on the off chance they make it?

[Ryn]

Antonio is definitely one for the future. I look forward to seeing him in the Reading line up in the next year or two. For me he has all the attributes of a great winger.

[Royalwaster]

Church and Sig have two years on Antonio.

He's only just 19, and when we signed him he was an 18 year old from Tooting & Mitcham he immediately made the step up to league 1. That's a big a step-up.

Inconsistency is the hallmark of young players, lets wait till he grows up a bit before writing him off.

In short he still has the potential to be something more, it's too early to give up and sell.

I thought Church was a bit more mixed when out on loan - didn't he not score any goals for one of the teams he went to?

[Wycombe Royal]

I think you are missing the point. Sometimes clubs just sign players to bolster the squad even if there is very little chance of them playing much. All clubs do it.

I'm sure Chelsea fans would make the same comment about Ross Turnbull who is obviously not at the required level to be good eough for Chelsea but they have needed him a ouple of times this season due to their injury problems.

As for which youngsters should or shouldn't be kept on I think I'll leave that to the people who work with them everyday as I haven't seen them enough to pass judgement (and I doubt you have either), but I do know that Wycombe fans weren't particularly impressed with Davies (flashes of skill, but far too inconsistent and goes missing for long periods) and Henry flatters to decieve every time I have seen him (how many chances has Henry had? In myopinion if he was goingto breakthrough he would have done it by now).

But for some reason you don't seem to want to give Antonio a chance.

[specialjon]

Turnbull was largely signed so they could meet the rules of the champions league. Something about home grown players or something....

[Ian Royal]

In general Hoop Blah is spot on IMO. About Antonio, he's wrong.

Too soon to get rid given where he has come from. He needs a couple of years to really have a chance to develop to play at our level. And that still doesn't take him over 21 which is fairly young.

I think he's done enough to justify a short term extension and another loan.

The point about Church is a good one. He didn't score goals whilst on loan (as Partridge took delight in pointing out). Yet he's now looking a very good prospect and is scoring at a good rate for a debut Championship season.

[Wycombe Royal]

Turnbull was largely signed so they could meet the rules of the champions league. Something about home grown players or something....

If that was the only reason they would not have given him a 4 year contract.

He is not the only example. There are many players that clubs sign who aren't really good enough and will only get games in an injury crisis. That is why it is called a squad. A lot of clubs don't like relying on the ability to use the loan market to get them through an injury crisis and Coppell certainly fell in to that bracket.

[ZacNaloen]

Church and Sig have two years on Antonio.

He's only just 19, and when we signed him he was an 18 year old from Tooting & Mitcham he immediately made the step up to league 1. That's a big a step-up.

Inconsistency is the hallmark of young players, lets wait till he grows up a bit before writing him off.

In short he still has the potential to be something more, it's too early to give up and sell.

I thought Church was a bit more mixed when out on loan - didn't he not score any goals for one of the teams he went to?

He scored plenty of goals on his second loan spell at Orient.

It's the first two loan spells he was shy in front of goal

[Ian Royal]

4 is plenty? From 13 appearances? It's not great is it... not awful either, but not exactly suggesting he'll be a scorer at a higher level.

[ZacNaloen]

If his goal return now (10 from 25) is good enough, then 5 from 13 is pretty much the same scoring rate. Give or take. It's nothing to sniff at.

[Hoop Blah]

Church played a lot of his time on loan as a wide forward, in the 4-3-3/4-5-1's and so you might not expect him to score that many, but essentially, as we've seen, he isn't much of a goalscorer (he never was in the youth teams either). He has other qualities that mean he can play at this level, but as I said in pre-season, if we're relying on him and Long to consistently score us the goals to have a good season then we're in trouble.

WR, I'm fully aware clubs fill out their squads, or at least most do. My point is that we didn't need to with some of the players we bought because they were never going to play or be good enough. We took it too far.

Turnball is a credible third choice keeper for a club like Chelsea. He's turned into a number two at the moment because Hilario is so poor and had a nightmare when he was called upon and because Cudicini left over the summer.

Just to go back to the comments on the other loan players, I think you're rewriting history on some of them. I'm not Davies biggest fan (that's Ian Royal) but I think he has something about him but from what I read Wycombe were very happy with him and were quite keen to sign him. The fans might've rightly called him up on some of his play, but generally I thought they were very positive about him. Henry didn't flatter to deceive on loan and has generally done well. I don't think he's done enough this season to demand a place, but last season I thought he did more than Kebe in his relatively short time on the pitch (I prefer technical players over atheletes who can't ge the basics right so I'm biased).

[Ian Royal]

If his goal return now (10 from 25) is good enough, then 5 from 13 is pretty much the same scoring rate. Give or take. It's nothing to sniff at.

Give or take because it's wrong according to Soccerbase anyway?

Anyway, the point is his loan scoring record was faily poor apart from one short spell where it was ok, no better. Yet he has still proved an excellent addition at this level. So to write off Antonio on the basis that he's been in and out of the Saints team at the age of 19, is a bit silly IMO>

[Hoop Blah]

I'm not writing him off because he's been in and out of their team, I'm writing him off because I don't rate what I've seen of him playing.

He'll do ok at League 1, but I don't want players who are OK at League 1 here, I want decent Championship players.

The comment about Southampton was in support of that opinion and, I think, in response to someone saying he's been a massive hit down there.

[ZacNaloen]

If his goal return now (10 from 25) is good enough, then 5 from 13 is pretty much the same scoring rate. Give or take. It's nothing to sniff at.

Give or take because it's wrong according to Soccerbase anyway?

Anyway, the point is his loan scoring record was faily poor apart from one short spell where it was ok, no better. Yet he has still proved an excellent addition at this level. So to write off Antonio on the basis that he's been in and out of the Saints team at the age of 19, is a bit silly IMO>

Soccer base is wrong.

From RFC Site

He then made a loan move to Leyton Orient, and became the 1000th player in their history, playing 12(+1) games for the O's and scoring five times.*

*Note that the Press Association incorrectly have Simon as scoring four goals at Leyton Orient. He did in fact score both for the O's in a 2-2 draw with Leeds.