England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

[papereyes]

Argentina's population is about 40 million - I think that's the point.

[papereyes]

and yes, I am aware that he's not comparing like with like there.

someone, somewhere plotted the ranked population against FIFA ranking and its apparently a lot more correlated than one would imagine. I do wonder what result you'd get with other measurements - GDP per capita etc.

If I could get the stats (200 odd countries ... ) in an easily manipulatable form, I'd have a play.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

and yes, I am aware that he's not comparing like with like there.

someone, somewhere plotted the ranked population against FIFA ranking and its apparently a lot more correlated than one would imagine. I do wonder what result you'd get with other measurements - GDP per capita etc.

If I could get the stats (200 odd countries ... ) in an easily manipulatable form, I'd have a play.

well what advantage does Argentina have over us? It's not population. It's not GDP.

There is a strong correlation, but there are some anomolies. Mexico and Russia, with comfortably over a million and a strong football culture, are big underachievers. Poland, also, with 38 million, are crap for their size.

We have a large population. We're a rich nation compared to almost all contenders. We have a very strong club game. We ought to be able to field a team who look genuine contenders. You probably have to go back 40 years for the last time that was true though. We could have knicked in 1990, but that wasn't a great side. It just got on a roll. 1996 was probably the closest.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

That would put us at a country of 40 million football fans - the same as Argentina.

Interesting post but that is way way off.

Argentina's population in 2009 was apparently 40,134,425

[papereyes]

I do agree fully with the whole 'its the way we teach kids' argument btw.

I also know the FA are trying to overcome all that - the coaching thing mentioned up thread is quite important. They've been banging on about 'minisoccer' on the coaching courses as well.

[Ian Royal]

The difference I think 2WW was alluding too was that the emphasis is put on a lot of team sports in this country and as such we are decent at most of them, football, rugby, cricket...but as we don't focus completely on one it does have a knock on effect on the talent pool (as in a lot of cases the best kids growing up were good at all 3).. add to that a fairly substandard level of coaching at youth level and you have the problem why we will only ever be decent at best.

Yep stranded.

And Rev, 1 in 5 being into rugby is a not insignificant. We're losing strong fit players to this awful classist, size-exclusivist, boring joke of a brutish technique-less game. (haha what a sentence). You take 1 in 5 at random out of Germany's squad and see what effect that has for example.

as said already, other countries do play other sports too. Maybe an additional problem with have these days is just that kids are so damn fat in the UK these days. I reckon we lose far more potential players to obesity than any competing sport.

I know for a fact that in many countries on the continent players are technically superior becase of the way they play form a very young age i.e. tiny enclosed yards with tiny chalk goals drawn on walls where ball skills and preise shooting are paramount. Here we send our kids out into big pitches aiming at full sized goals - great for educating about the 11-a-side game but doing no favours for ball skills. Just another possible factor.

It would be interesting to compare teams of 8 years olds from England with other countries, and see if there's much difference in the style of play at that age.

It is something of a myth though that the likes of Argentina and Brazil pluck kids from the slums or the beaches as almost ready-made stars. They've all gone through academy training from a young age. The way we play, on the large fields, playing dozens of tournaments every year, doesn't help in any way though.

As many to drink and drugs as teenagers as to childhood obesity IMO.

[No Fixed Abode]

I love most people's over - reactions to England games

Green is the worst keeper ever now
Gerrard MOM - now he's the best thing since sliced bread
1-1 draw in the opening game against the USA who are a decent side is like a defeat

Just relax.

FWIW - Joe Cole surely should be starting the next game.
Lennon and Cole on either flank. that's a deffo.

[Royal Rother]

That would put us at a country of 40 million football fans - the same as Argentina.

Interesting post but that is way way off.

Argentina's population in 2009 was apparently 40,134,425

Maybe I've missed a point here but all I was saying is that there are not 40,000,000 football fans in this country.

[Hoop Blah]

Part of the problem early on is that good players are encouraged to win games solo and ignore teamplay, certainly with the weaker players.

When they're no longer a cut above the players they are against (attackers usually favoured over defenders at young ages) they don't know how to work as a team. Short simple passes are derided as sideways and movement simply isn't good enough.

Any evidence of that?

If you'd have said we favour athleticism over techniqual quality in many youngsters I might agree, although a lot less now than 20 years ago.

Countries tend to produce players that reflect the countries society, culture and pysche. Ours tends to produce players who are a bit more reserved and steady than the likes of the freethinking Dutch or more artisan Latin countries.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Maybe I've missed a point here but all I was saying is that there are not 40,000,000 football fans in this country.

No, and nor are there in Argentina. There are the same number in both who'd regard football as the main sport, or their sport of choice though.

Simply, there's no reason why we shouldn't expect to be able to put a team out with the same ability as the likes of Italy, Spain and Argentina. They have no obvious advantage over us.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Part of the problem early on is that good players are encouraged to win games solo and ignore teamplay, certainly with the weaker players.

When they're no longer a cut above the players they are against (attackers usually favoured over defenders at young ages) they don't know how to work as a team. Short simple passes are derided as sideways and movement simply isn't good enough.

Any evidence of that?

If you'd have said we favour athleticism over techniqual quality in many youngsters I might agree, although a lot less now than 20 years ago.

Countries tend to produce players that reflect the countries society, culture and pysche. Ours tends to produce players who are a bit more reserved and steady than the likes of the freethinking Dutch or more artisan Latin countries.

Have you ever worked with Dutch people? They are like Germans, but without the laid-back attitude.

[Hoop Blah]

I love most people's over - reactions to England games

Green is the worst keeper ever now
Gerrard MOM - now he's the best thing since sliced bread
1-1 draw in the opening game against the USA who are a decent side is like a defeat

Just relax.

FWIW - Joe Cole surely should be starting the next game.
Lennon and Cole on either flank. that's a deffo.

Should just relax yes, we should still progress without any problem and I think we'll see us get better over the next couple of games too. No need to peak to early.

As for Green, anyone with any sense knew he was the weakest of the keepers so I don't think it's just jumping on his error. As for him playing the next game, if you assume that he was only playing because James was carrying a knock the. If James is fit for Friday then he plays.

[FiNeRaIn]

Why isn't Joe Hart number one?

Why replace one calamity with another?

England need a keeper than DOESNT make mistakes... I don't care about them pulling off world class saves, I'd just rather they had someone who kept the easy one's out, then its the defenses fault when we concede and not the keeper.

[Hoop Blah]

Have you ever worked with Dutch people? They are like Germans, but without the laid-back attitude.

Yes thanks. I worked for and with a bunch of Dutch for a few years and spent plenty of time with them over here and over there.

[Hoop Blah]

Why isn't Joe Hart number one?

Why replace one calamity with another?

England need a keeper than DOESNT make mistakes... I don't care about them pulling off world class saves, I'd just rather they had someone who kept the easy one's out, then its the defenses fault when we concede and not the keeper.

I'd have never taken Green in the squad. I can understand not playing Hart as we all saw what throughing an inexperienced keeper in to a pressure situation can do to them with Carson, and to an extent Green last night. I'd have had Robinson in the squad as number two with Hart in there for the experience OR have given Hart a lot more time in the side over the last six months to bed him in.

[Royal Rother]

Why isn't Joe Hart number one?

Why replace one calamity with another?

England need a keeper than DOESNT make mistakes... I don't care about them pulling off world class saves, I'd just rather they had someone who kept the easy one's out, then its the defenses fault when we concede and not the keeper.

Goalkeepers need to gain experience before making the leap to international tournament football.

When Hart made his debut he looked raw and out of place, flapping about like Hamer did for Reading when he came on for the injured Federici last season.

Brentford (and other League 1/2 clubs') fans think Hamer is superb, Man City (and many other observers) fans think the same of Hart. Neither are wrong but it should be recognised that the step up from those levels needs to be very gently handled.

If we had got to the FA Cup Semi-final and had to play Hamer I'd have been scared stiff for him (and us), same with Hart in the World Cup. He isn't ready for the biggest step uo of all in my opinion; he has shown via his poor distribution against whoever it was recently that his head just isn't clear at this level yet; he totally ignored the very specific instructions given to him by Capello about feeding the ball out from the back and that is a massive negative against him at this stage.

Having loads of experience of international football behind him, and having totally regained his confidence and form at Blackburn, I believe Paul Robinson should be in goal for us in South Africa.

[Ian Royal]

Part of the problem early on is that good players are encouraged to win games solo and ignore teamplay, certainly with the weaker players.

When they're no longer a cut above the players they are against (attackers usually favoured over defenders at young ages) they don't know how to work as a team. Short simple passes are derided as sideways and movement simply isn't good enough.

Any evidence of that?

If you'd have said we favour athleticism over techniqual quality in many youngsters I might agree, although a lot less now than 20 years ago.

Countries tend to produce players that reflect the countries society, culture and pysche. Ours tends to produce players who are a bit more reserved and steady than the likes of the freethinking Dutch or more artisan Latin countries.

mostly out of date experience from my youth. But the kids I regularly see playing on Jesus Green have the same problem... general kiddy and parental attitudes possibly. Professional set ups may be different of course.

too much emphasis on individuals beating players, rather than teamwork, movement and passing that do it. Which I guess would probably come down on the technique you mention.

[Tails]

Germans werem't afraid of putting Neuer in goal today - I believe he has only 6 caps to his name.

[Ian Royal]

Did they have a great deal of choice?

[Tails]

Did they have a great deal of choice?

Do we?