Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

[ZacNaloen]

I was right, we really were running it to the line prior to promotion.

[Royal Rother]

From the Deloitte review of PL finances 2008...

Reading: The most drastic wage increase in the Premier League was recorded by Reading, who hiked their wage bill by 109 per cent between 2005 and 2007. They also spent £11 million on their stadium and facilities.

Yes, but where's all the cash gone....?

[glass half full]

2005-6, 2006-7: National/global economy doing very well

2008-9, 2009-10: Hmm.... not quite so well.

...Your point being? The TV money didn't change and our gates have still been reasonable...our fans have still bought replica shirts and season tickets.

Well I don't have the disposable income that I had in 2006 but maybe it is just me and petrol prices rising, house , grocery bills rising by about 10% or more etc. have not affected anyone else. ]

TV money is a very uncertain commodity (ITV sport, Setanta etc..), so not too much reliance should be placed on that.

[Royalee]

2005-6, 2006-7: National/global economy doing very well

2008-9, 2009-10: Hmm.... not quite so well.

...Your point being? The TV money didn't change and our gates have still been reasonable...our fans have still bought replica shirts and season tickets.

Well I don't have the disposable income that I had in 2006 but maybe it is just me and petrol prices rising, house , grocery bills rising by about 10% or more etc. have not affected anyone else. ]

TV money is a very uncertain commodity (ITV sport, Setanta etc..), so not too much reliance should be placed on that.

Oh it affects the rest of us, sure...but TV money has remained constant, as have most of the other areas of income for the club so you can't use it as justification for our increased 'debt'.

[Wycombe Royal]

...Your point being? The TV money didn't change and our gates have still been reasonable...our fans have still bought replica shirts and season tickets.

Well I don't have the disposable income that I had in 2006 but maybe it is just me and petrol prices rising, house , grocery bills rising by about 10% or more etc. have not affected anyone else. ]

TV money is a very uncertain commodity (ITV sport, Setanta etc..), so not too much reliance should be placed on that.

Oh it affects the rest of us, sure...but TV money has remained constant, as have most of the other areas of income for the club so you can't use it as justification for our increased 'debt'.

You think hospitality has remained constant?

You think gate receipts have remained constant?

[brendywendy]

So we've gone from a club that makes a 6 million loss every year but can afford to spend a million or two on transfers every year to a club that is balancing the books and will have to sell a star player to fill any gaps that the Academy can't fill. Surely the only way for a club like that to go is down?

before sjm was willing to pay those losses for us. now he isnt.
if you know of anyone who likes reading, and has 6 million quid to throw away every year, forever, please let it be known to him that he should step up and buy the club

[brendywendy]

royalee=spasmo

Using that sort of language does you no credit whatsoever.

sorry dad he just winds me up. i over reacted, and resorted to language that left my arguments moribund.
i can only apologise to royalee, and the board as a whole, and hope to keep my feelings in check next time.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

There's a lot of bollox spouted as ever.

But we keep having this argument, the only things that change is that we argue about less and less money and are now reduced to arguing over signing a Premiership reserve team player on a free transfer.

What is the long term plan? How must McD and Hammond feel? How long will they hang around? There comes a point when they will feel the club can no longer move forward.

Other than selling our best players, how do we plan to move forward as a club? What future does JM see himself having with in the club, now that he can no longer afford to use his own cash?

The argument goes round and round, yet there is never any discussion about the real future of the club.

[Royalee]

You think hospitality has remained constant?

You think gate receipts have remained constant?

The hotel is a different entity to the football club for starters, we haven't filled as many of the boxes as when we were in the Premiership, but certainly no less than when we were in the Championship last time and if you look at our average gates, they're higher than most other clubs in the division.

[Ferris]

royalee=spasmo

Using that sort of language does you no credit whatsoever.

sorry dad he just winds me up. i over reacted, and resorted to language that left my arguments moribund.
i can only apologise to royalee, and the board as a whole, and hope to keep my feelings in check next time.

Should have called him a durr brain instead Brendy.

[Terminal Boardom]

So the figures suggest that we are not a well run club when one considers the amounts involved. If anything, the PL days paid off the deficit.

Thus, if the football authorities introduce a salary cap of say 70% of revenue, we can seriously consider kissing goodbye to a number of key players.

[brendywendy]

Lee, we had debts of several million in the form of loans from the bank when we came down from the Prem.

Now we have no debts.


Technically we are better off for those premiership years.


To be honest, I hate the think what kind of state we'd be in if we didn't get promoted when we did. It was timed pretty well considering.

It's funny, we didn't hear anything about those massive debts and loans before we went up...I thought we were well-run?

Yes we did, I distinctly recall us having a 6 million debt prior to promotion.

agreed - the 6 million, year on year loss was very well publicised before we went up
remember him going into detail saying we needed 15000 per week through the gates just to break even at that time
and we rarely did

I've read the accounts thanks, but they don't answer the questions I have regarding wage drops and where these loan repayments have sprung up from.

royalee - the loans were recalled by the banks due to the economic downturn. all high risk loans would have been dealt with in this way. i believe the cost was around 7 million to us.this has all been in the public domain, every year, and every year its pretty clear"where all the money went" and its not into JMs scrooge mcduck style coffers

[brendywendy]

2005-6, 2006-7: National/global economy doing very well

2008-9, 2009-10: Hmm.... not quite so well.

...Your point being? The TV money didn't change and our gates have still been reasonable...our fans have still bought replica shirts and season tickets.

sorry- but the TVmoney most definitely changed between 06-07 and 09-10
the gaverage gate has reduced also, as have shirt sale revenues
and season tickets have been "slashed"


what you talkin bout

[brendywendy]

Can anyone throw up a stat that shows the amount spunked on player salaries as a % of gross income?

yes, every year in the published accounts- they will be somewhere on last years "where has all the money gone" thread if you care to look

[brendywendy]

You think hospitality has remained constant?

You think gate receipts have remained constant?

The hotel is a different entity to the football club for starters, we haven't filled as many of the boxes as when we were in the Premiership, but certainly no less than when we were in the Championship last time and if you look at our average gates, they're higher than most other clubs in the division.

actually isnt it part of the holding company- and last year didnt it prop the club up to the tune of 5 million pound.


i may have dreamt it, but im pretty sure

[Wycombe Royal]

You think hospitality has remained constant?

You think gate receipts have remained constant?

The hotel is a different entity to the football club for starters, we haven't filled as many of the boxes as when we were in the Premiership, but certainly no less than when we were in the Championship last time and if you look at our average gates, they're higher than most other clubs in the division.

The hotel is part of the business and its profit affects the clubs profits. What have other Championship clubs gates got to do with us having lower revenue? And also what has the revenues from boxes when we were last in the Championship got to do with the revenues now? (is our wage bill the same now as it was in 05/06?)

[Royalee]

You think hospitality has remained constant?

You think gate receipts have remained constant?

The hotel is a different entity to the football club for starters, we haven't filled as many of the boxes as when we were in the Premiership, but certainly no less than when we were in the Championship last time and if you look at our average gates, they're higher than most other clubs in the division.

The hotel is part of the business and its profit affects the clubs profits. What have other Championship clubs gates got to do with us having lower revenue? And also what has the revenues from boxes when we were last in the Championship got to do with the revenues now? (is our wage bill the same now as it was in 05/06?)

It's a separate entity and doesn't appear on the same accounts as the Football Club actually, so it doesn't affect the 'Football Club' profits. As for our wage bill, I think you'll find that with us having less coaching staff and our playing staff consisting of mostly academy graduates, the wage bill will have dropped significantly once the new accounts are released.

[brendywendy]

So the figures suggest that we are not a well run club when one considers the amounts involved. If anything, the PL days paid off the deficit.

Thus, if the football authorities introduce a salary cap of say 70% of revenue, we can seriously consider kissing goodbye to a number of key players.

actually it just shows that at this level we will never make a profit.moving us to the madstad, and steadily improving the season ticket sales/fan base/club profile, has helped make us way more viable than when jm took us over, playing in a cowshed(albeit a lovely one)with gates of 5-8k a week. jm payed for the stadium, and we repay in loans competetively priced, thats fair enough to me.
and until someone arrives who is willing to fund the losses, we will do well to stay here.
but then we know that the club is/has always been a small one, and i accept that we have no devine right to championship football, let alone premiere league football.

[brendywendy]

The hotel is a different entity to the football club for starters, we haven't filled as many of the boxes as when we were in the Premiership, but certainly no less than when we were in the Championship last time and if you look at our average gates, they're higher than most other clubs in the division.

The hotel is part of the business and its profit affects the clubs profits. What have other Championship clubs gates got to do with us having lower revenue? And also what has the revenues from boxes when we were last in the Championship got to do with the revenues now? (is our wage bill the same now as it was in 05/06?)

It's a separate entity and doesn't appear on the same accounts as the Football Club actually, so it doesn't affect the 'Football Club' profits. As for our wage bill, I think you'll find that with us having less coaching staff and our playing staff consisting of mostly academy graduates, the wage bill will have dropped significantly once the new accounts are released.

i remember cos tim dellor started ranting like you about the hotel, and demanding to know how much money had been stolen by Jm to prop up this ailing business venture, and the week after had to speedily retract his statements as he explained that it had actually propped the club up by millions.

[Wycombe Royal]

The hotel is a different entity to the football club for starters, we haven't filled as many of the boxes as when we were in the Premiership, but certainly no less than when we were in the Championship last time and if you look at our average gates, they're higher than most other clubs in the division.

The hotel is part of the business and its profit affects the clubs profits. What have other Championship clubs gates got to do with us having lower revenue? And also what has the revenues from boxes when we were last in the Championship got to do with the revenues now? (is our wage bill the same now as it was in 05/06?)

It's a separate entity and doesn't appear on the same accounts as the Football Club actually, so it doesn't affect the 'Football Club' profits. As for our wage bill, I think you'll find that with us having less coaching staff and our playing staff consisting of mostly academy graduates, the wage bill will have dropped significantly once the new accounts are released.

The accounts clearly show income from the hotel. I don't care if the wages have come down siginificantly, they are still way above 05/06 levels which something you seem determined to avoid accepting.