Just how good is Scholes? The best the world has ever seen?

[buzzbee]

It may be just me, but it seems that Paul Scholes has kinda become a God in some people’s eyes over the summer.

Before this summer, he was a good premiership player, who had managed to remain a regular in a very successful Manure side for a very long time. In many ways, it's hard to knock him. At International level, he’s always been a second string player – The kind who would always make the squad and be one of the first picked to cover injuries to first choice players and occasionally be first choice on the left, when we had no real options out there

However, following England's poor showing at the world cup, it immerged that he had been asked to come out of international retirement, prior to the WC and that he regretted not doing so.

Since then, it seems that the press and TV have been full of how different it would have been, if he had come out of international retirement and how having a player like Scholes would have turned the whole team around.

Personally, I think Barry, Gerrard and Lampard would have still been our first choice 3 in the middle, if he had been there. I don't think he would have made a huge difference, because I don't think he would have played.

While contemplating making this post, I noticed THIS thread, where it seems that plenty of Nobbers share the view that he is something special and would have made all the difference at the World Cup

Last week, the TV commentators were drooling over his every touch. At one point, he received the ball, just inside his own half and laid it off to a team mate about 5 yards away and the commentator said, "Oh that is quite magnificent! Scholes really does make it look so simple!" THAT'S BECAUSE IT WAS SIMPLE! I could have played that pass!

This week, Sir Bobby Charlton has apparently said that he believes that the best three players ever to play for Manure are Duncan Edwards, George Best and Paul Scholes... WHAT????

He has been a good servant to his club and is certainly a good player, but one of the three best players ever to play for Manure? I wouldn't even put him in the top 3 of the premiership years (Beckham, Cantona, Giggs, Schmeichel, Ronaldo, Rooney???)

This supposed great has managed a whopping 66 caps. OK, I know that's not a bad return, but surely if he is this world beater that people are now portraying him as, he would have far more! Just to put it into context, his team mate, Wayne Rooney is only 1 cap short of him and he is only 25 years old. Gary Neville is a year younger than him and has 85 caps. 3 years younger, even Phil Neville is just 7 caps behind him. Michael Owen is 5 years younger and has 89 caps. Even Giggs has had 64 caps and he plays for Wales, who have never qualified for a world or European cup since the start of his career, where players have the chance to ramp up their cap count.

Don't get me wrong - I am not saying he's a bad player. He works hard, can produce some really good moments and, early on in his career, had a habit of smashing in some nice goals. But IMHO, he is not and never has been a real world-beater. I don't think he has ever been the best in his team (I can't remember a time when I would have put him ahead of Giggs for instance) and I certainly don't think of him as one of the games greats, as he seems to be portrayed as now! He’s just a good player, still maintaining his good level at 36 years old

What do you think?

[cmonurz]

I think the excellent analysis on MOTD2 tonight shows just why Scholes is so effective, and infinitely moreso than the likes of Lampard and even Gerrard, in particular aspects of the game. His vision and movement is second to none, and his footballing brain dwarfs that of most of his peers. It's not coincidence he has been pretty much ever-present in the long-successful United sides of the last 15 years. He is very much the engine of the side, and not least since Keane retired and he took on a slightly different role.

As for the caps - so Gary Neville is younger and has more caps? Scholes retired from international football 6 years ago - of course his contemporaries will have more caps than him, even allowing for age differences. The only exception is Rooney but he really is an exception, and has been in the England side since he was 17.


And no, you really couldn't have made that pass.

[From Despair To Where?]

What I like most about Scholes is that compared to the likes of Lampard and Gerrard, as a person he has his feet firmly planted on the ground, rather than having his head planted firmly up his own arse.

Maybe that's why people are prepared to cut him slack. He doesn't chase the limelight, no sleaze, no front page headlines, he just comes across as a decent person and a genuine role model

[rfcjoe]

Well we know he's better than Lampard, that goes without saying. Inside the top 3 midfielders to play in the Premiership ever, imo.

[sheshnu]

Seems to me there is some kind of campaign to have him named as Player of the Year (or whatever they call it) in what could be his final season at the top. Didn't Giggs win something similar recently?

[Mr Angry]

ANY player who didn't play in the England team during the World Cup has become better regarded since that debacle; Joe Hart, Michael Dawson, Theo Walcott and of course, Paul Scholes all come to mind.

Scholes is a quality player who looks even better than he is due to the high quality of the players around him - Nicky Butt never looked as good after he left Man Utd as he was when he was there, nor, arguably, did Beckham or Phil Neville (er......).

Would Scholes have made a difference to England in South Africa? Don't forget that between the USA and Algeria games, Gareth Barry was being touted as the great saviour of English hopes........ that didn't work out did it? Also, I'm not sure that Scholes could have done much to prevent the lightning quick German counter-attacks in the last 16 game.

[papereyes]

Last week, the TV commentators were drooling over his every touch. At one point, he received the ball, just inside his own half and laid it off to a team mate about 5 yards away and the commentator said, "Oh that is quite magnificent! Scholes really does make it look so simple!" THAT'S BECAUSE IT WAS SIMPLE! I could have played that pass!

while technically pretty much all of us could, it remains a totally different skill to keep the ball moving while under some pressure.

There is something in the average England fan not getting that not every pass needs to be a 30 yard glory ball and the national teams consitent inability to work out how to really do well at international football.

One of the major problems with the whole Lampard-Gerrard question is that they are both players who are at the top of their game physically and capable of goals destined for the highlights reel. They are, give or take, pretty much incapable of playing a patient or short game well.

I think a lot of the retroactive hyping is that, having watched England torn apart by a team with passing and movement, people thought back to the last England player who showed comparable abilities.

[frimmers3]

but "they" never gave glen hoddle a chance..he would have walked into any other international side.

[No Fixed Abode]

I think it's safe to say Lampard has been the best prem midfielder in terms of goals and assists.

[soggy biscuit]

I think it's safe to say Lampard has been the best prem midfielder in terms of goals and assists.

The average human being has less than 2 legs and 2 arms

[cmonurz]

I think it's safe to say Lampard has been the best prem midfielder in terms of goals and assists.

And one-twos with John Terry.