Loans,loans and more loans

[dobcheck]

Someone once said to me at a game, "i dont like loan players as they dont belong to us" ie, employed by the club and i tend to agree. If you loan a player with the intention of making it a permanent deal then fine but to loan a player for a season knowing full well he will be out of your price range or his parent club will not want to sell that player then it seems pointless as you are just helping the parent club develop their player and maybe increasing the value of that player even further out of your price range if he plays well. Matthew Upson would be a point in case, fantastic for us but never a chance of signing him and his career took off after that and Arsenal got a few quid for him.

[Stranded]

Someone once said to me at a game, "i dont like loan players as they dont belong to us" ie, employed by the club and i tend to agree. If you loan a player with the intention of making it a permanent deal then fine but to loan a player for a season knowing full well he will be out of your price range or his parent club will not want to sell that player then it seems pointless as you are just helping the parent club develop their player and maybe increasing the value of that player even further out of your price range if he plays well. Matthew Upson would be a point in case, fantastic for us but never a chance of signing him and his career took off after that and Arsenal got a few quid for him.

We did have a chance to sign Upson though. We just didn't take it.

[rabidbee]

I thought that there was never any chance of Upson moving permanently to a non-PL team. I think the club knew very well that Upson was looking for a loan move as an opportunity to secure a permanent move to a PL club in January. If we went into it with our eyes open, I don't think anyone could complain at what happened. Besides which, season-long loans give you an opportunity to take stock of where you are each summer.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

I thought that there was never any chance of Upson moving permanently to a non-PL team. I think the club knew very well that Upson was looking for a loan move as an opportunity to secure a permanent move to a PL club in January. If we went into it with our eyes open, I don't think anyone could complain at what happened. Besides which, season-long loans give you an opportunity to take stock of where you are each summer.

I seem to remember this being one of the reasons Pardew left. He went to JM and said that MU was happy to become an RFC player provided we paid him £XX per week. JM said no. But what galled Pardew so much was that the wage was only just above our limit and not out of the question.

[sheshnu]

I seem to remember this being one of the reasons Pardew left. He went to JM and said that MU was happy to become an RFC player provided we paid him £XX per week. JM said no. But what galled Pardew so much was that the wage was only just above our limit and not out of the question.

Crikey. Where did you hear that, if you don't mind me asking?

[Mr Angry]

I thought that there was never any chance of Upson moving permanently to a non-PL team. I think the club knew very well that Upson was looking for a loan move as an opportunity to secure a permanent move to a PL club in January. If we went into it with our eyes open, I don't think anyone could complain at what happened. Besides which, season-long loans give you an opportunity to take stock of where you are each summer.

I seem to remember this being one of the reasons Pardew left.

He went to JM and said that MU was happy to become an RFC player provided we paid him £XX per week. JM said no. But what galled Pardew so much was that the wage was only just above our limit and not out of the question.

This, I'm afraid, is rubbish.

Firstly, Pardew moved because he wanted to manage West Ham, a club he had great affection for, and who were probably offering a lot more money to boot.

Secondly, what happened with Matthew Upson was this.

Pardew and Upson met with SJM in order to see if there was any way we could meet Upson's personal terms as Upson was keen to move to get 1st team football as he had no chance of getting into Arsenal's first team (at the time). The meeting started off with SJM basically praising Upson to the heavens, telling him what a firm favorite of the fans he was and how the team would be built around him etc etc etc. All well and good so far.

Then SJM cut to the chase; "Well matthew, we would love you to stay at Reading and we are prepared to offer you £X'000 per week".

The figure was less than 25% of what Upson was on at Arsenal at the time.

Pardew and Upson looked at each other, and both started to laugh.

End of meeting.

(As told by a certain A Pardew Esq)

[sheshnu]

If that's true then if I were Madejski I would have sacked the insubordinate twat on the spot.

[Mr Angry]

Just re-telling the story that Pards told a STAR meeting shortly after the event.

[roadrunner]

I was told almost word for word the same version of events as well. Pardew knew there and then that he couldn't take this club where he wanted to. West Ham was a big chance for him, and it was the right decision to go for both him and RFC. He did a great job at West Ham and we got Coppell who somehow worked an absolute miracle under the tight fisted budgets that were in place here.

[loyalroyal4life]

McDermott eyes loan deals
Reading boss not finished in transfer market


Brian McDermott has admitted he is likely to dip back into the transfer market when the loan window reopens next week.

The Reading manager sold top scorer Gylfi Sigurdsson to Hoffenheim on transfer deadline day in a club-record deal and quickly used some of the funds to add two defenders to his squad.

He was pleased with his business but remains keen to further bolster his squad after narrowly missing out on some other deals.

"We've obviously lost a fantastic player in Gylfi but it was a big deal for the club," said McDermott.

"And straight off the back of that we've brought in Ian Harte and Zurab Khizanishvili.

"We missed out on a couple of loan players too but the emergency loan window opens up next week."

[Victor Meldrew]

.
I still haven't seen a good argument FOR loan signings.

Do you disapprove of our youngsters going out on loan too? Can you not see the advantage of our fringe players getting first team football and then coming back ready to play in our first team. Its the other side of the same coin.

I do see the plus side from our club's point of view but as somebody else has posted I would much prefer a reversion to competitive Reserves football to accommodate and improve our players.
The other side of the coin is what concerns me most and I feel that OUR team can't be built by using the loan system and building a team must surely be what is uppermost in the minds of the decision-makers at RFC.

[Victor Meldrew]

I have no problems with the Gylfi sale. It's a shame but can't be helped. As to our transfer policy, I think loans are fine. If they do well you can always purchase them later. I don't see what the issue is. Kish was essential we have him, can we not be happy with that? If we got someone like Fryatt in we, along with Harte and Henrie it's fine. It's time for Kara and Church to step into the breach. We still have two of the best wingers in the division in Kebe and Mcanuff remember. Gylfi won't be that badly missed.

You have made one very big assumption in saying "if they do well you can always purchase them later"-wrong,that is not the way it works as often you can't sign them.
Now if there were some kind of option price at the end of a loan deal that would be perfect because it would mean that a club really could "...purchase them later".

[sheshnu]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Reading only have one player in on loan at the moment, don't they? And any 'emergency' loans might only be until January to help the squad until then. Not much of a problem there IMO

[Victor Meldrew]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Reading only have one player in on loan at the moment, don't they? And any 'emergency' loans might only be until January to help the squad until then. Not much of a problem there IMO

The only problem I see is that our squad really is not very good-too many of them are hardly up to this level let alone ready for Premier League football.

[sheshnu]

Don't worry about it, they probably won't be playing in the Premier League. I think most of them can do a good job at Championship level though.

Maybe they won't be - that's why I go and watch them every week. Only one defeat so far this season suggests we're not in too much trouble just yet.

(This is (most of) the team that dumped Liverpool out of the Cup last season too..)

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

This, I'm afraid, is rubbish.

Firstly, Pardew moved because he wanted to manage West Ham, a club he had great affection for, and who were probably offering a lot more money to boot.

Secondly, what happened with Matthew Upson was this.

Pardew and Upson met with SJM in order to see if there was any way we could meet Upson's personal terms as Upson was keen to move to get 1st team football as he had no chance of getting into Arsenal's first team (at the time). The meeting started off with SJM basically praising Upson to the heavens, telling him what a firm favorite of the fans he was and how the team would be built around him etc etc etc. All well and good so far.

Then SJM cut to the chase; "Well matthew, we would love you to stay at Reading and we are prepared to offer you £X'000 per week".

The figure was less than 25% of what Upson was on at Arsenal at the time.

Pardew and Upson looked at each other, and both started to laugh.

End of meeting.

(As told by a certain A Pardew Esq)

Not sure why it's rubbish actually. It was a defining moment for Pardew in that he knew after this he would never get the backing he wanted and, as I said, was one of the reasons (amongst the others you stated) that made his switch easier. And as for Pards quote, what this doesn't tell you is how much Upson was prepared to drop. I have a family friend who knew Upson at this time and he mentioned that he was more than prepared to meet JM past half way.

[brendywendy]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Reading only have one player in on loan at the moment, don't they? And any 'emergency' loans might only be until January to help the squad until then. Not much of a problem there IMO

The only problem I see is that our squad really is not very good-too many of them are hardly up to this level let alone ready for Premier League football.

weve lost one first teamer, and now the team that nearly made the playoffs after only playing properly from february is hardly up to this level.

im not saying we'lll go up, or even make the play offs, we may even finish bottom half, but thats rubbish

[Victor Meldrew]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Reading only have one player in on loan at the moment, don't they? And any 'emergency' loans might only be until January to help the squad until then. Not much of a problem there IMO

The only problem I see is that our squad really is not very good-too many of them are hardly up to this level let alone ready for Premier League football.

weve lost one first teamer, and now the team that nearly made the playoffs after only playing properly from february is hardly up to this level.

im not saying we'lll go up, or even make the play offs, we may even finish bottom half, but thats rubbish

We have lost TWO first-teamers and arguably our best two first-teamers in Bertrand and Gylfi.
Selective posting m8-you can't just forget the first half of last season.
Also quite a few of the other teams have been buying and although there is no guarantee that buying automatically improves a squad I would suggest that this season we will struggle to do as well as last.
IMHO the likes of Williams,Pearce,Long,Church,Karacan and Howard are actually not very good and are no better than Div 1 players.
I'm not quite sure which part of my post you regard as "rubbish".

[Victor Meldrew]

Don't worry about it, they probably won't be playing in the Premier League. I think most of them can do a good job at Championship level though.

Maybe they won't be - that's why I go and watch them every week. Only one defeat so far this season suggests we're not in too much trouble just yet.

(This is (most of) the team that dumped Liverpool out of the Cup last season too..)

But also one win in 90 minute football this season.
I hate it when people talk about players "doing a job"-what does that really mean?
Doing a job at Championship level possibly means survival-if that is the case and the limit of our ambition for this season then I am disappointed.
I want our club to be challenging for promotion after last season's consolidation and I don't want to hear any more about a recession.
It is arguable if we are still in a recession-if we are then so is every other club and we are competing on equal terms or even better terms as surely the club hasn't totally wasted the parachute payments as well as the massive (by this level's standards)influx of transfer fees which other clubs haven't had for the past two seasons..

[sheshnu]

Doing a good job at Championship level means performing well in comparison to other players at this level. Being competitive.

I'm afraid Victor that Reading will not be competing at the top end of this division unless they get lucky or hit a run of great form - the same as just about any other team you care to mention. Most likely this season, and all future ones, will see us hovering around mid-table unless we have terrible luck with injuries/loss of form and get relegated.

I hope we get more good luck than bad luck and maybe push for a play-off place, and I'm sorry to say but it is probably a bit foolish to hope for anything more.

Maybe if a really good player is brought in on loan then our chances of having a good season will increase...