Dear Mr Chairman

[westendgirl]

As far as I understand it there are three companies involved. RFC (limited), Millenium Madejski Hotel (limited) that are both 100% owned by RFC (Holdings) PLC.

The accounts that we tend to chew over on HNA? are the PLC accounts.

As with any set of accounts the numbers are just a snapshot of where a comapny is, financially at the end of a given financial year.

What you dont see with any year end accounts is the detail you would see if you had access to the monthly management accounts. These in my experiance are the revealing numbers. However, unless you are actively involved with a companies finanaces, the public does not get to see these.

My 'I would like to know more about that' button was pressed after JM's recent statement that he could continue to fund his other investments, specifically printing operations, because other 'assets are still producing revenue' (JMs words not mine) and then named the Madejski, amongst other of his businesses.

So my question is, if JM is quoted correctly, and as I know the journalist concerned, I have no reason doubt that he was, how is 'The Madejski' being used to support other areas of his businesses and how will this be reflected in the accounts?

You are right that it is the consolidated accounts talked about in here but if you can get access to a shareholder you can see the separate accounts for the hotel and the football club. From memory last year (2008-09) was the first year that the hotel did not contribute a profit and that was, I think, both the economy and also not the cost of expansion but the fact that during the expansion they were not an attractive place to stay and so income was down.

The 2009-10 accounts will be available presumably in December as usual and should (as they co-incicde with the football year) include the parachute payments - but it will still not be possible to tell as you are correct you need the management accounts for that detail.

Not sure how RFC can help the other businesses currently as until Gylfi was sold there was concern about the shortfall. In fact I know some RFC employees were worried about more redundancies at the stadium until last week.

[ZacNaloen]

The Stadium and Hotel are a single entity property wise, so I imagine it's that as a whole which is producing the revenue he's talking about and not the football club.

[Hugo Boss]

Is it just me that doesn't really give a sh*t about the accounts and is just happy to support my team regardless of how much we do or don't make / spend??

[Arch]

Is it just me that doesn't really give a sh*t about the accounts and is just happy to support my team regardless of how much we do or don't make / spend??

Nope. I'm on that train too.

[marekisgod]

Please back the club properly or sell up & oxf*rd off.

Cosmic , why dont you back the club or Oxford off , its really simple anyone can do it cheer when its good , moan when its bad .

All clubs evolve thats life just got to get on with it , like it or lump it .













Lee oxf*rd Hendrie!!!!

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

Is it just me that doesn't really give a sh*t about the accounts and is just happy to support my team regardless of how much we do or don't make / spend??

Nope. I'm on that train too.

I think at the same time people want to see the club moving forward, which imo is fair enough. Now that doesn't mean to say we have to spend to be succesful, but it does mean that we need to find some form of outside investment. It is not possible to generate funds at this level, without selling your best players. We've seen what happens when clubs don't improve.

The problem is you have a group of 5 or 6 people who make crazy comments about the Chairman and seem to have a personal agenda against JM. So any debate ends in extreme comments and peoples reaction to them. Rather than actually debating where this club is going to go.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Good point, being offensive to JM does not help on these or any other threads, personally I would like to see all the insults about JM moderated out. I would like to be well informed about how the club operates, and posts from people like Westendgirl help as they show me things about accounts that I am not aware of.

I dont really care if the club have cleared the debts, it would be nice to see that they have, and any to JM as well. Surely then the club will be on a solid footing.

As for selling the club, perhaps it is because we have so little debt that no one wants it, walking away from debts seems rather popular, and there would be none to walk away from here.

[under the tin]

I think at the same time people want to see the club moving forward, which imo is fair enough. Now that doesn't mean to say we have to spend to be succesful, but it does mean that we need to find some form of outside investment. It is not possible to generate funds at this level, without selling your best players. We've seen what happens when clubs don't improve

We become a Crewe. The danger of that is apathy amongst the Reading footballing public, which, in my view would be, to a degree, understandable.
The only way in which I can analogise it is; would you go and pay to watch a team every week that only ever played for a draw?

Our support is soft here, mainly due to the many years of mediocrity, and as a consequence allegiances built with the London sides found almost on our doorstep. It pains me to say it, but if we were to find ourselves in the Conference, I have doubts as to whether we could pull in the same level of attendance as that yellow shirted shower up the road did.

As for selling the club, perhaps it is because we have so little debt that no one wants it, walking away from debts seems rather popular, and there would be none to walk away from here.

That's a bit tenuous for me. Pseud O Nym, IMHO, got a lot closer to it when he wrote "football club chairman are in it for self engrandissment"
If you look at the clubs that have changed hands, there really is a pattern. It's either a big fanbase, or something about reviving glories from the past.
We have a soft fanbase, and a history that is synonymous with mediocrity. The one period that the club rose out of that mediocrity Jm missed the window to sell up, because, along with a few other things:
a) he was enjoying the publicity, and sitting in the directors box with celebs (as my friend PO'N alludes to)
b) he overcooked the selling price
That's all in the past now, the real debate is where does the club go from here? I can't see Jm getting a buyer anytime soon.

[Hoop Blah]

As Coppell said, we're all fur coat and no knickers to the rest of the football world.

Yes our standing has gone up with the 106 team and the one good season in the Premiership, but realistically there isn't really a great draw for someone to buy the club. A massive potential for casual fans yes, but a passionate hardcore fanbase no.

As for debts, we're still £20 odd million in debt to the Chairman plus the usual bits and bobs to banks and the like, so I wouldn't say we're debt free. Those debts aren't ones a new buyer would be able to get out of paying of course because until Madejski had his cash the sale presumably wouldn't go through.

westendgirl, I think your comments are spot, although from my sources the hotel has had two years returning a net loss (only £100k and £600k though I think so not big losses). I'm not sure when the clubs financial year ends though, and how that impacts the look of our wage bill and revenues where they don't actually line up with the playing seasons, which might blur the analysis a bit.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Nah there are only a few clubs that really applies to, Notts Co must have been one!! Birmingham are def not, yet they found a new owner.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

As for debts, we're still £20 odd million in debt to the Chairman plus the usual bits and bobs to banks and the like, so I wouldn't say we're debt free. Those debts aren't ones a new buyer would be able to get out of paying of course because until Madejski had his cash the sale presumably wouldn't go through..

Last accounts showed a debt to JM from the football club at about £8mill, and wasn't the overdraft cleared. Tho there will be some cash flow arrangements. Hotel owes JM a lot more than the Football Club, it is there in the accounts, so must be right, unless JM shifted the debt to the Hotel?????

[Hoop Blah]

Not sure on that HSSC.

I'm talking about the long term debt that was owed to JM and has generally stood at around the mid-20 million. I can't picture how that was worded in the annual report though.

We did at one point clear our overdraft yes, although the figures I'm looking at show that it went straight back up again the following year and in the 2009 accounts was approx £6m.

[Svlad Cjelli]

A proportion of the current debt will probably be down to bad debtors (e.g Hulll City).

[Hoop Blah]

Nah there are only a few clubs that really applies to, Notts Co must have been one!! Birmingham are def not, yet they found a new owner.

Definitely not what? A team with a passionate and decent size fan base?

I wouldn't agree with that, and being in the countries second city, where football is traditionally a lot stronger than in the Thames Valley, gives them a strong base to build on.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Not sure on that HSSC.

I'm talking about the long term debt that was owed to JM and has generally stood at around the mid-20 million. I can't picture how that was worded in the annual report though.

.

thats up to 2008, if it helps £8.7m plus £2.1mill accrued interest

[RoyalBlue]

Not sure on that HSSC.

I'm talking about the long term debt that was owed to JM and has generally stood at around the mid-20 million. I can't picture how that was worded in the annual report though.

.

thats up to 2008, if it helps £8.7m plus £2.1mill accrued interest

What rate of interest is being charged?

[under the tin]

Nah there are only a few clubs that really applies to, Notts Co must have been one!! Birmingham are def not, yet they found a new owner.

Definitely not what? A team with a passionate and decent size fan base?

I wouldn't agree with that, and being in the countries second city, where football is traditionally a lot stronger than in the Thames Valley, gives them a strong base to build on.

The second ever game I saw reading play was in 1971/2 season. We were at home to a Birmingham side called Aston Villa. In the third division.
At the time, the Blues were a top 6 side, regularly pulling in 40-50 000.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Nah there are only a few clubs that really applies to, Notts Co must have been one!! Birmingham are def not, yet they found a new owner.

Definitely not what? A team with a passionate and decent size fan base?

I wouldn't agree with that, and being in the countries second city, where football is traditionally a lot stronger than in the Thames Valley, gives them a strong base to build on.

The second ever game I saw reading play was in 1971/2 season. We were at home to a Birmingham side called Aston Villa. In the third division.
At the time, the Blues were a top 6 side, regularly pulling in 40-50 000.

So regular that they had an average of 32k that year, http://www.european-football-statistics ... b/birc.htm big club that never won the FA Cup or league title of the senior division, basically one league cup and a few monor trophies, much like the Simod Cup. Unlike A Villa who have real history.


PS it was 70/71. 100 years and we got relegated to the bottom tier for the first time ever, and Birmingham C were in division two. so tbh your post is totally wrong.

[under the tin]

Nah there are only a few clubs that really applies to, Notts Co must have been one!! Birmingham are def not, yet they found a new owner.

.... an average of 32k that year, http://www.european-football-statistics ... b/birc.htm big club that never won the FA Cup or league title of the senior division, basically one league cup and a few monor trophies, much like the Simod Cup. Unlike A Villa who have real history.
PS it was 70/71. 100 years and we got relegated to the bottom tier for the first time ever, and Birmingham C were in division two. so tbh your post is totally wrong.[/quote]
That's what you get when you rely on memory when you are at my age.
I'll take it on the chin.
Although the numbers are wrong, the same general point I was trying to make,IMHO, is still relevant.
If you were to suggest to the board at RFc that we could ever average 32k, I bet they would retire to the executive washrooms, and have a collective "ham shank".
Since 1947, I note that BCFC appear to have been a top flight club for 28 odd more years than we have.
You may not regard them as a big club, and perhaps nor do I: but crucially, messrs Sullivan, Gold, and now Mr. Yeung thought they were a better, bigger vehicle upon which to enhance their personal reputations on.

[Arch]

What rate of interest is being charged?

Looks like about 1.5% overall.