Harte Signs

[donface]

Please just shut up.

Please.

[Snowball]

Gylfi scored 20 goals last season

6 Penalties
3 Free-Kicks
1 Missed penalty

131 Chances according to the official stats (not 124)
124 Chances after taking out the scored penalties

14 goals in 124 attempts, a goal every 8.86 attempts

Kebe was twice as lethal scoring once every 4.25 shots

Church who seems to miss a lot of chances, scored 1 in 5.25 last season
Long did better at 4.89

03.50 Mooney
04.00 Pearce
04.25 Kebe
04.89 Long
05.00 Hunt
05.25 Church
05.67 Rasiak
08.50 Mills
08.86 Gylfi
17.67 McAnuff
19.00 Howard

[Hoop Blah]

Haha, not wobbling at all snowball, no reason to. Getting bored a bit maybe, and don't always have enough time to look at your posts but I see there are plenty of others ready to try and talk some sense into you if I can't find the time.

As for you posting style, it hurts my eyes. I can't be bothered to read it when it's just in bold and inside a quote of someone elses post so you might be making one of your half decent points amidst all the weak statistical guff but I'll probably miss it.

As for playing Gylfi out wide just so that we could fit him in. I don't think that was the case to be honest. It was more to allow us to play 4-4-2 or to cover for a lack of decent options out wide when playing 4-5-1, although I'm sure there was also an element of fitting in one of our best players without weakening the engine room in midfield during his earlier appearances.

[Stranded]

What those shot stats don't say though is where the shots were from. You correctly state the number of free kicks he scored from but not how many he took. He was our set piece taker so chances are a lot of those efforts were from those 20/25 yards out - a range where a free kick would be expected to be taken at goal but where the goal % will be lower that a shot from inside the area.

[Snowball]

What those shot stats don't say though is where the shots were from. You correctly state the number of free kicks he scored from but not how many he took. He was our set piece taker so chances are a lot of those efforts were from those 20/25 yards out - a range where a free kick would be expected to be taken at goal but where the goal % will be lower that a shot from inside the area.

But, Stranded, doesn't a miss rate as high as that suggest that maybe we shouldn't be TAKING those long shots and a pass trying to put someone in with a BETTER chance would be the right option.

We don't have the stats for all FCs

I have no idea how many of his misses were from attacking free-kicks or shots wide or missing headers inside the box. All I do know is that his miss-rate is quite high and the only reason he got a high tally of goals was (a) he took seven penalties (b) he took most or all of the 18-25 yard free-kicks.

My question is whether we obsessed on those at the expense of a (possibly) better pass.



PS Just realised he hit the woodwork seven times!! I tend to think of most of those as "good shots" even though they are, of course, a miss.

[Wycombe Royal]

But, Stranded, doesn't a miss rate as high as that suggest that maybe we shouldn't be TAKING those long shots and a pass trying to put someone in with a BETTER chance would be the right option.

Quite often when long shots are taken there is no "forward passing" option available, so they have a choice to either shoot, try and retain the ball and probably lose it, or pass backwards (and suffer the gorans of the crowd).

[Woodcote Royal]

In response to Woodcote's earlier point suggesting that with Harte and Zurab we now have a stronger squad.
Maybe in the very short term we have but I want to see us building a team and not propping it up with older players.
IMHO Armstrong is the best left-back at the club and therefore I see only Zurab as an improvement in our starting eleven and looking ahead he is not our player

I agree that, in all probability, Armstrong is now not only the best left back at the club but also one of the best in the division.

However, when Siggy was sold the general consensus was that we'd be lucky see Stretch again.

Now, the same player is also a more than competent performer in midfield.

I'm also delighted to see young players establish themselves in the side but suggesting that two defenders in their late 20's, who are both good enough to perform at higher level, will only temporarily strengthen the squad is just plain silly.

My reason for mentioning all this in the first place was in response to claims and counter claims regarding Snowballs stats. I'm offering the establishling of Harte, Zurab and Armstrong in the team as a significant reason why we have looked a better all round side since Gylfi left.

IMHO, we have effectively sold the best young player this club has ever produced and replaced him with 3 very experienced and versatile performers.

Without these 3 we would never have negotiated a tricky period when we would have been down to the bare bones thanks to injuries suspensions and come out the other side as serious play off contenders.

[Snowball]

But, Stranded, doesn't a miss rate as high as that suggest that maybe we shouldn't be TAKING those long shots and a pass trying to put someone in with a BETTER chance would be the right option.

Quite often when long shots are taken there is no "forward passing" option available, so they have a choice to either shoot, try and retain the ball and probably lose it, or pass backwards (and suffer the gorans of the crowd).

No problem, we'll just shoot over the bar instead. That's more efficient.


Or, of course, it COULD be, that like corners which are actually UNproductive,
because Gyfli scores just THREE (admittedly brilliant and spectacular) free-kicks
in a SEASON, the players, fans AND coaches think we should really be

(a) Playing for free-kicks (aren't we seeing more and more of that with Long winning frees for Harte to take?

This of course, changes the way we play. Instead of trying to keep the ball alive, we look for lots of dead-ball situations

(b) Opting for a free-kick SHOT (last season, taken by Gylfi of course) rather than a clever pass to the wing
or a through ball, or a one-two, or a chip to be headed


Fact is Gylfi missed 111 times. That doesn't include mis-control or shots blocked as the man is about to shoot,
that's "shots-away" off target or saved.


Gylfi had 71 shots on target. Take away 7 penalties, that's 64 shots on target for 14 goals. FIFTY saved

Church was on target 30 times and 12 went in - 18 saved. He scores 40% of the time on target.
Kebe was on target 31 times and 12 went in, 19 saved He scores 39% of the time he's on target
Long was on target 24 times and 9 went in, 15 saved. Long scored 38% of the time he was on target

All three of these are far more "deadly", better at converting chances, than Gylfi

Gylfi managed 22% (21.8%), so it seems likely that either

(a) He's a very wasteful striker
or
(b) He/the team didn't always take the best option

[Snowball]

Yes, Woodcote, and also, Gylfi NOT being there opens up his position
for someone to improve.

Previously it was Gylfi and usually Tabb/Gunnar with Howard


Karacan had 23 starts in the whole season out of a possible 54. (Who kept him out?)

This year he has had 11 starts and come on as sub out of a possible 12.

And guess what? He's improved, is beginning to be talked up as very good
and has started shooting, and has scored.


When Arsenal let Viera go, Fabregas came into the side and blossomed.

[Hoop Blah]

Who kept Karacan out? It wasn't Sigurdsson as such because they play in different positions (their combined young age and lack of experience might've made Rodgers and McDermott shy away from playing both at the same time though).

I'd hazard a guess it was more a case of Karacan constantly giving the ball away cheaply that stopped him playing more games last season.

[Arch]

WE-ARE-BETTER-OFF-WITHOUT-GLYFI

and I meant it, and I can prove it.

No you can not!

Oh yes I can, categorically, as previously defined.

That is

We are better off without Gylfi, if "better off" means winning more points per game.

And so far that is absolutely, unchallengeably, a fact.[/b]

Any chimp with an internet connection knows we've got more points without Gylfi in the games that have actually been played. That's a country mile from saying "we are better off without Gylfi". In the absence of a legitimate control, there is no way to prove that we wouldn't have done as well or better in those games with Gylfi. You're entitled to the opinion that we're better off - I'm agnostic. But you can't claim proof. It's when you start claiming proof that eyes start rolling.

I don't give a crap about the people who would have blamed Gylfi's sale if we had been playing badly. I'm never one of those people.

[specialjon]

Who kept Karacan out?

Tabb

[Snowball]

Who kept Karacan out? It wasn't Sigurdsson as such because they play in different positions (their combined young age and lack of experience might've made Rodgers and McDermott shy away from playing both at the same time though).

I'd hazard a guess it was more a case of Karacan constantly giving the ball away cheaply that stopped him playing more games last season.

I MEAN simply that there was one midfield slot less, so Karacan got less games (fact)

and now there's some room he's had more chances and has taken them gladly.


Point being, when a player goes, others sometimes DO step up.

Howard has got 80% of the assists he got for the whole of last season
(4 assists in just eight games, a MUCH higher rate than Gylfi's 9 in 43)

Karacan has already got 50% of his last season's assist total (and has scored)

Kebe is scoring (so far) at 150% of the rate of last year.

Harte has come in and already got a pen and a free-kick in six games, which would equate to 6 + 6 in the season

(but yes I DO know it's a small sample, although he also scored twice for Carlisle this season)



So, the point is, there's four players who have stepped into the breach

[Victor Meldrew]

In response to Woodcote's earlier point suggesting that with Harte and Zurab we now have a stronger squad.
Maybe in the very short term we have but I want to see us building a team and not propping it up with older players.
IMHO Armstrong is the best left-back at the club and therefore I see only Zurab as an improvement in our starting eleven and looking ahead he is not our player

I agree that, in all probability, Armstrong is now not only the best left back at the club but also one of the best in the division.

However, when Siggy was sold the general consensus was that we'd be lucky see Stretch again.

Now, the same player is also a more than competent performer in midfield.

I'm also delighted to see young players establish themselves in the side but suggesting that two defenders in their late 20's, who are both good enough to perform at higher level, will only temporarily strengthen the squad is just plain silly.

My reason for mentioning all this in the first place was in response to claims and counter claims regarding Snowballs stats. I'm offering the establishling of Harte, Zurab and Armstrong in the team as a significant reason why we have looked a better all round side since Gylfi left.

IMHO, we have effectively sold the best young player this club has ever produced and replaced him with 3 very experienced and versatile performers.

Without these 3 we would never have negotiated a tricky period when we would have been down to the bare bones thanks to injuries suspensions and come out the other side as serious play off contenders.

I think you will find that Harte is in his very,very late twenties-most people call it their thirties.
We already had Armstrong so it's just 2 signings,not 3 and one of those will probably be retired in a year or so and the other one belongs to another club so my point is that we are not building a side,we are patching it up.

[Snowball]

I think you (Woodcote) will find that Harte is in his very,very late twenties-most people call it their thirties.

We already had Armstrong so it's just 2 signings,not 3 and one of those will probably be retired in a year or so and the other one belongs to another club so my point is that we are not building a side,we are patching it up.

Armstrong certainly FEELS like a new signing, and part of McDermot's plan may well have been
based on inside knowledge (if this is correct) that Armstrong REALLY is over his long-term
injuries and Hunt's operation has REALLY fixed him.

But I really don't see what has been done as "patching up". Some top Premiership manager this week said that a lot of players can now play until they are 36, 37 even 40 because they are so much better trained, better looked-after, have better physiotherapy, have better nutrition etc (if they look after themselves.)

Giggs? Scholes?

McDermott recently said that it's EXPERIENCE that gets teams promoted from the Championship, and also it might be that the future is Cummings/Kelly and that Harte, Griffin, Armstrong are being used to bring the kids on. Ditto Howard to educate Karacan, Harte, Ingi, Zurab to develop Pearce and calm down Mills?

[Hoop Blah]

Giggs and Scholes are still playing but they're shadows of their former selves.

[Snowball]

Giggs and Scholes are still playing but they're shadows of their former selves.

Scholes? A few matches ago they were saying this was his best season
and Capello wanted him to come out of international retirement

ACTIM has him as the fourth best midfielder in the Premiership, and ninth best player in the Premiership

Giggsy is 49th best player this season!

[Hoop Blah]

Actm is a load of rubbish, and the media went mad on Scholes after a couple of very good performances but he's already started to show why he, and Giggs, where used sparingly by Fergie last year.

The media talk rubbish most of the time to fill their pages, they're still decent but not a patch on what they were and can't handle the physical demands.

[Victor Meldrew]

Giggs and Scholes are still playing but they're shadows of their former selves.

Scholes? A few matches ago they were saying this was his best season
and Capello wanted him to come out of international retirement

ACTIM has him as the fourth best midfielder in the Premiership, and ninth best player in the Premiership

Giggsy is 49th best player this season!

I know I shouldn't say it but Snowball by what spin is Giggs 49th best player-is that in Manchester?
Scholes had a couple of good games at the start of the season and since then matches have passed him by-did you see the Sunderland game?
There aren't too many outfield players in The Premier League or Championship over 35 let alone your 36,37 or 40.

[Snowball]

Actm is a load of rubbish, and the media went mad on Scholes after a couple of very good performances but he's already started to show why he, and Giggs, where used sparingly by Fergie last year.

The media talk rubbish most of the time to fill their pages, they're still decent but not a patch on what they were and can't handle the physical demands.

WHY is Actim a load of rubbish?

Because you say so?

Who do YOU think are currently playing best in the Premiership?