Relegation form?

[andrew1957]

I know some will say this is a knee jerk reaction but I am becoming increasingly concerned that our recent form risks us being dragged into the relegation struggle this year.

It was utter madness on every level to sell Sigurdsson at the end of August. I don't blame Brian at all. I think he has done wonders to get as many points as we have since Gylfi left, but I fear we are in trouble now and the chickens are coming home to roost so to speak.

We are not creating nearly enough chances. The players we are left with are hard working, but there is no one apart from Kebe who has the creative edge. Kebe blows hot and cold (as we all know) so we cannot rely on him for 46 games. In the last two games Kebe has not been at his best and we have struggled. It is incredibly dangerous to be virtually 100% reliant on one mercurial talent.

The really worrying thing to me is that we are in 11th place but so far we have played 10 teams below us and just 2 above us in the table. In the last three games we have managed 1 point. When you consider that Preston and Bristol have managed just 8 points at home this season between them - 4 of these have been against Reading. Now it is hard to see many points being accumulated between now and Christmas as we have our hard games to come against the form teams of the division. We could easily go on a long run of games without a win. Sometimes playing the better teams does bring out the best in RFC, but if we don't find someone who can score goals regularly (and it is hard to see who this will be in the current squad) we could be in deep trouble by Christmas.

The Championship is an incredibly tight division and it is essential to have a creative player like Siggy. In my opinion his sale immediately took us from a promotion chasing team to a team in danger of relegation. I am concerned and feel extremely let down by the Chairman and the club. It looks to me as though the other players have lost belief. With Gylfi there we seemed to exude confidence - now that has gone and without a regular goalscorer, it is hard to see how the players can get it back.

[Bandini]

It looks to me as though the other players have lost belief. With Gylfi there we seemed to exude confidence - now that has gone and without a regular goalscorer, it is hard to see how the players can get it back.

andrew, I think you are being too modest, surely there is some motivational technique that the management could use to restore this lost belief.

[Stranded]

Far too early to panic - we're showing the traits of being the archetypal midtable team - we'll most likely finish this season with a record such as P46 W15 D15 L16 - not exciting but it'll do for now.

[Victor Meldrew]

I know in the past Andrew that you suffered from excessive enthusiasm for everything done by the club and the players and now you are joining the ranks of many of the rest of us-cynics,realists,whatever name you wish to use.
We have just lost 2 games having previously drawn one and won 2 against Ipswich and Barnsley so we are probably an average Championship side.

We have 2 players who can be up with the very best in this division in McAnuff and Kebe and the rest of the side is made up of players who are nowhere near the best.
Unfortunately if our two wingers don't play to their very best there is not much else but the same can be said about most of the teams in this division in that they may have one or two very good players but the rest are not.

Unfortunately also out of what many on here thought were a golden lot of young players coming through the Academy system in Gylfi,Pearce,Karacan,Church,HRK and Kelly we have sold Gylfi,Jem is a steady Championship player but the rest have (as yet) not really produced enough.
The club appears to have put it's faith in this lot but many of us are yet to be convinced by them-IMHO I'm not sure that any of those are up to the mark and I don't accept this "they are only x Years old" as a reason for great optimism as younger players don't all go on and improve,e.g is Shane Long really much better than he was 3 years ago?

So Andrew we might not have anywhere near enough to get promoted but in McAnuff and Kebe we should just about have enough to survive unless their off-days get more frequent-then we really would be in trouble.
We can't do anything about it so have to trust the chairman and manager but I have to say games like 6-0 at home to West Ham,3 goals at home to Spurs and the 0-0 and 1-1 v Man Utd and the 2-2 in that Boxing Day game at Chelsea seem a long,long time ago but we did have top players like Shorey,Sidwell,Kitson and Doyle compared to Harte,Howard,Church and Long.
Oh dear,I wish now that I hadn't gone down memory lane-I feel as depressed as you.

[Hoop Blah]

I echo the sentiments that we're an average side, and I'd say average at best really. That might well be enough to flirt with the play offs, but ultimately I think we'll finish mid-table somewhere, but most likely in the bottom half.

It all depends on what we do to strengthen the squad.

I'm not one to get carried away with the youngsters coming through, and have been critical of the majority of them in one form or another, but the biggest problem these youngster have is that they're not playing in a side with enough experience alongside them. You only have to look at how much better Pearce played in a solid back four with Harte alongside him than he did when Williams was there.

Imagine Karacan being given a bit of licence to use his engine with a decent old head alongside him who would run the game, ala a Lee Carsley, instead of having to try and do that himself. Put an old head up tops alongside Church and I think he'd fourish too. We've got too many young lads trying to learn their trade without having the old pro's alongside them to guide them.

Getting the mix right, of character as well as age and experience, is vital and I don't think we've got that right now.

[andrew1957]

I know in the past Andrew that you suffered from excessive enthusiasm for everything done by the club and the players and now you are joining the ranks of many of the rest of us-cynics,realists,whatever name you wish to use.
We have just lost 2 games having previously drawn one and won 2 against Ipswich and Barnsley so we are probably an average Championship side.

We have 2 players who can be up with the very best in this division in McAnuff and Kebe and the rest of the side is made up of players who are nowhere near the best.
Unfortunately if our two wingers don't play to their very best there is not much else but the same can be said about most of the teams in this division in that they may have one or two very good players but the rest are not.

Unfortunately also out of what many on here thought were a golden lot of young players coming through the Academy system in Gylfi,Pearce,Karacan,Church,HRK and Kelly we have sold Gylfi,Jem is a steady Championship player but the rest have (as yet) not really produced enough.
The club appears to have put it's faith in this lot but many of us are yet to be convinced by them-IMHO I'm not sure that any of those are up to the mark and I don't accept this "they are only x Years old" as a reason for great optimism as younger players don't all go on and improve,e.g is Shane Long really much better than he was 3 years ago?

So Andrew we might not have anywhere near enough to get promoted but in McAnuff and Kebe we should just about have enough to survive unless their off-days get more frequent-then we really would be in trouble.
We can't do anything about it so have to trust the chairman and manager but I have to say games like 6-0 at home to West Ham,3 goals at home to Spurs and the 0-0 and 1-1 v Man Utd and the 2-2 in that Boxing Day game at Chelsea seem a long,long time ago but we did have top players like Shorey,Sidwell,Kitson and Doyle compared to Harte,Howard,Church and Long.
Oh dear,I wish now that I hadn't gone down memory lane-I feel as depressed as you.

Victor - I think that in the past I supported the club as to a large extent I agreed with decisons made. The sale of Sig, however, just seems to me to have been near to insanity. A player like him comes along once in a blue moon and we had a great opportunity to build a team around him. I don't think you need many great players to succeed in this division. Look at Blackpool. They built a team round Adam and got promoted - just one class player. We could have done the same. Yes £6.5M would have been a lot to turn down but from his interview Gylfi was happy to stay and was pushed to go. I really think the club could have lived for one season with a £4M overdraft and then sold Gylfi at the end of the season, if we had not got promoted. That is what has made me so angry.

I find the short sightedness of the decision to sell so annoying. The problem now is that we could get into a self defeating downward cycle. At the end of a mediocre season Kebe will probably want to be off and who knows if McAnuff will want to stay. Then we will not have any creative players next season and the struggle will get even more intense. In the end if the club want to even survive in this division it will take a lot of money on player purchases - unless as you say we get very lucky and the younger players improve a lot.

[TedBundy89]

Why do Reading fans think that there are only 6 teams in this league, 3 go up and 3 go down, nothing in between! Calm down everyone, so we've lost a couple of games, both 0-1.

Reading fans do bemuse me, delusions of grandeur or what. Coppell took a while to assemble a promotion team and we had two years of mid table/flirting with the play offs and you lot want BM to do it in a year! Coppell never had money problems to deal with, near enough any player he wanted Hammond went and got him. Even Rodgers had £3 million to spend!! We've got £7 million in from Sigurdsson's sale, lets see what BM does with the tiny bit he's allowed to spend in Jan or July. He's never managed in the league before, everything he does wrong is a learning process. We have a very good base to work from, we don't concede many goals so the defence is sorted. A little tinker up front and in midfield and watch us go, it won't even cost much money. Let the man work.

There are a lot of very similar teams in this league this year, QPR and Cardiff stand out.

That is all.

[Hoop Blah]

Delusions of grandeur?

In what sense? We are an established Championship club, with the facilities and fan base to support that position, not to mention the fact that we've recently come out of the Premier League and the serious cash injection that should've resulted in. If we were having a good season, as opposed to the average one we have now on the back of a couple of season of decline then we'd be averaging crowds c. 20k a game.

Our aims and ambitions should be to be challenging in and around the play offs each and every year. Why should it be any lower than that?

[readingbedding]

Why do Reading fans think that there are only 6 teams in this league, 3 go up and 3 go down, nothing in between! Calm down everyone, so we've lost a couple of games, both 0-1.

Reading fans do bemuse me, delusions of grandeur or what. Coppell took a while to assemble a promotion team and we had two years of mid table/flirting with the play offs and you lot want BM to do it in a year! Coppell never had money problems to deal with, near enough any player he wanted Hammond went and got him. Even Rodgers had £3 million to spend!! We've got £7 million in from Sigurdsson's sale, lets see what BM does with the tiny bit he's allowed to spend in Jan or July. He's never managed in the league before, everything he does wrong is a learning process. We have a very good base to work from, we don't concede many goals so the defence is sorted. A little tinker up front and in midfield and watch us go, it won't even cost much money. Let the man work.

There are a lot of very similar teams in this league this year, QPR and Cardiff stand out.

That is all.

Correct.

[Forbury Lion]

In the last two games Kebe has not been at his best and we have struggled.

Perhaps a sign that opposition managers are instructing their players to stop Kebe as it stops Reading.

[Victor Meldrew]

In the last two games Kebe has not been at his best and we have struggled.

Perhaps a sign that opposition managers are instructing their players to stop Kebe as it stops Reading.

In theory the opposition doubling up on a player like Kebe should leave more space for other players but unfortunately they have not lately been good enough to capitalise on that extra space.

[Snowball]

I think Kebe is injured


I didn't go to Bristol, but as far as I can see, he hasn't tried to push the ball past a player and out-sprint him,
for a few games now.

[Hoop Blah]

I think Kebe is injured


I didn't go to Bristol, but as far as I can see, he hasn't tried to push the ball past a player and out-sprint him,
for a few games now.

See, there you go, an opinion based on what you see as opposed to a load of meaninglessly inaccurrate stats.

For what it's worth I probably agree with you. He hasn't looked quite the same the last few games and he did have a late fitness test as well. He's a player that relies on he pace, and I imagine has to feel 100% right about himself before he can play well (hence McDermotts special attention in the past).

[Victor Meldrew]

I think Kebe is injured


I didn't go to Bristol, but as far as I can see, he hasn't tried to push the ball past a player and out-sprint him,
for a few games now.

Do you think Harte,Long,Hunt and anybody else Irish is injured as well?

[Snowball]

I think Kebe is injured


I didn't go to Bristol, but as far as I can see, he hasn't tried to push the ball past a player and out-sprint him,
for a few games now.

See, there you go, an opinion based on what you see as opposed to a load of meaninglessly inaccurrate stats.

For what it's worth I probably agree with you. He hasn't looked quite the same the last few games and he did have a late fitness test as well. He's a player that relies on he pace, and I imagine has to feel 100% right about himself before he can play well (hence McDermotts special attention in the past).

WRONG. It's an interpretation of a statistic.

Normally Kebe tries the out-sprint X times per game, now he isn't.

Two possible interpretations.

(a) The defences are playing him differently so he can't use his speed

(b) He's injured.

(b) is far more likely because we know he was carrying a thigh injury
and got pulled off after 60 minutes a few games back

[Victor Meldrew]

Snowball,
I think HB's point is that you have seen it with your own eyes rather than tried to use stats to prove a point especially when the stats(no.of sprints over what distances in which area of the pitch etc) are not available.
FWIW I think both he and I agree with you that he is carrying an injury.

[Hoop Blah]

But that interpretation is happening inside your head, including the legendary human issues with recall you bring up every day.

You've not tried to substantiate you opinion with a load of FACTS and STATS that just cloud the issue because of the way you present and argue them.

If you're opinion is the accurate apllication and interpretation of the stats you'll be able to tell exactly what X amounted to last month and what it is now Kebe is slightly off form.

[RoyalBlue]

I know some will say this is a knee jerk reaction but I am becoming increasingly concerned that our recent form risks us being dragged into the relegation struggle this year.

It was utter madness on every level to sell Sigurdsson at the end of August. I don't blame Brian at all. I think he has done wonders to get as many points as we have since Gylfi left, but I fear we are in trouble now and the chickens are coming home to roost so to speak.

We are not creating nearly enough chances. The players we are left with are hard working, but there is no one apart from Kebe who has the creative edge. Kebe blows hot and cold (as we all know) so we cannot rely on him for 46 games. In the last two games Kebe has not been at his best and we have struggled. It is incredibly dangerous to be virtually 100% reliant on one mercurial talent.

Either someone has stolen andrew's identity or this should be a very serious wake up call for Madejski and his sidekicks.

A guy who is known for stoutly supporting them and their approach in the past is now seriously worried at where that approach has left the club.

What a shame that those running the club have their heads buried so deep in the sand (or up their boss's posterior) that they can't see the same risk.

[andrew1957]

All I will say is "where on earth did that performance come from?"

Football is a bizarre game.

[Franchise FC]

I know some will say this is a knee jerk reaction but I am becoming increasingly concerned that our recent form risks us being dragged into the relegation struggle this year.

It was utter madness on every level to sell Sigurdsson at the end of August. I don't blame Brian at all. I think he has done wonders to get as many points as we have since Gylfi left, but I fear we are in trouble now and the chickens are coming home to roost so to speak.

We are not creating nearly enough chances. The players we are left with are hard working, but there is no one apart from Kebe who has the creative edge. Kebe blows hot and cold (as we all know) so we cannot rely on him for 46 games. In the last two games Kebe has not been at his best and we have struggled. It is incredibly dangerous to be virtually 100% reliant on one mercurial talent.

The really worrying thing to me is that we are in 11th place but so far we have played 10 teams below us and just 2 above us in the table. In the last three games we have managed 1 point. When you consider that Preston and Bristol have managed just 8 points at home this season between them - 4 of these have been against Reading. Now it is hard to see many points being accumulated between now and Christmas as we have our hard games to come against the form teams of the division. We could easily go on a long run of games without a win. Sometimes playing the better teams does bring out the best in RFC, but if we don't find someone who can score goals regularly (and it is hard to see who this will be in the current squad) we could be in deep trouble by Christmas.

The Championship is an incredibly tight division and it is essential to have a creative player like Siggy. In my opinion his sale immediately took us from a promotion chasing team to a team in danger of relegation. I am concerned and feel extremely let down by the Chairman and the club. It looks to me as though the other players have lost belief. With Gylfi there we seemed to exude confidence - now that has gone and without a regular goalscorer, it is hard to see how the players can get it back.

I'm probably not the first and won't be the last to say that this is particulalry knee-jerk