Long - Time to go.

[Svlad Cjelli]

And again, if you judge a player's performance on one measure (goals scored) then you're being dangerously simplistic.

Long's contribution to the team is far greater than many others' - I believe he is the best "support striker" going. It's just such a pity that he's being asked to play as the only striker rather than as the foil to another striker who'd put away the chances his tenacity and energy creates.

Surely one of the reason he's not scoring many is that he's off getting the ball and creating chances - but when he's alone up front there's no-one to put those chances away.

[ZacNaloen]

^ Bang on, I thought I said that last night but can't find my post this morning

[Snowball]

Kevin Doyle, Reading League Goals

A GREAT Striker. £6.5 Million Transfer

2008/9 39 (2) 18 Goals
2007/8 32 (2) 06 Goals
2006/7 28 (4) 13 Goals
2005/6 41 (4) 18 Goals


140 Starts (12) 55 Goals = 1 goal every 2.618 Starts, 1 goal every 2.836 Appearances


If you look at his CHAMPIONSHIP goal-scoring, ONLY 80 Starts (6) 36 Goals = 1 goal every 2.222 starts, or 1 goal every 2.389 appearances



As I said, 1 goal every 2 starts (or appearances) is very, very classy and very, very rare.

[Snowball]

And again, if you judge a player's performance on one measure (goals scored) then you're being dangerously simplistic. // Long's contribution to the team is far greater than many others' - I believe he is the best "support striker" going. It's just such a pity that he's being asked to play as the only striker rather than as the foil to another striker who'd put away the chances his tenacity and energy creates. // Surely one of the reason he's not scoring many is that he's off getting the ball and creating chances - but when he's alone up front there's no-one to put those chances away.

Absolutely.

I remember way back when arguing about Long's very good goals-per-minute-on-the-pitch WHICH WAS BETTER THAN DOYLE'S
that the argument came back, "But Doyle does so much more than merely score goals."

The player-baiters want it both ways.

How about we say, "The manager knows best. We are 8th, punching above our weight."

[Snowball]

Noel Hunt's tally also includes his Scottish days when he was playing as a winger, Snowball in manipulating stats to suit his agenda non-shocker
On top of that the others you've listed obviously include goals and games played at different levels and in some case different countries.
Not having a go, but I'm a bit lost as to what the point you're trying to make is, apologies if it's obviously stated (it is very early in the morning ) but are you trying to argue that our strikers goal ratios are acceptable or to be expected at this level?

I simply listed a player's appearances and goals.


My point is that 1 in 2 starts or appearances is EXCEPTIONAL and rarely seen at Championship level
(if it is the player moves on)...

Gylfi, an exceptional talent got 18 goals (including a fair few pens) in 36 (5) and went for £7 Million

if Long, or Hunt or Church got 1 goal every 3 starts that's quality at our level

IMO the best measure of "how much has a player played" is STARTS, NOT "appearances"
and better than both is ACTUAL MINUTES PLAYED

I lost count of the number of times Shane came on for 2/3/4/5/ minutes to harry the opposition

I am aware that many of Shane's goals came while he was a sub, but so what? I did the analysis yonks
ago and showed that calling a start as 90 minutes and a sub appearance one-sixth of a game (15 minutes)
was accurate to within a couple of per-cent. Often a start does NOT mean 90 minutes, and sub-appearances
can be a single minute, a very rarely as much as 45 minutes

65 starts 25 Goals

add in 79/6 appearances = 13 "games"


78 "90's" for 25 League Goals, extremely close to 1 in 3.

2010 - 11 League 13 (00) 2
2009 - 10 League 22 (09) 6
2008 - 09 League 13 (26) 9
2007 - 08 League 07 (22) 3
2006 - 07 League 09 (12) 2
2005 - 06 League 01 (10) 3

[Snowball]

Long works his socks off, batters centre-halves. Does anyone doubt this?

He WEARS DOWN defenders.

And what are Reading renowned for this season? LATE GOALS.

[facaldaqui]

And again, if you judge a player's performance on one measure (goals scored) then you're being dangerously simplistic.

Long's contribution to the team is far greater than many others' - I believe he is the best "support striker" going. It's just such a pity that he's being asked to play as the only striker rather than as the foil to another striker who'd put away the chances his tenacity and energy creates.

Surely one of the reason he's not scoring many is that he's off getting the ball and creating chances - but when he's alone up front there's no-one to put those chances away.

That's all very well, but you'd expect a front man to put away the occasional goal--if only by chance, as with Church's goal yesterday or Church's rebound-in last season. But Long fluffs the chances he gets. If he goes on a little run, we will all be happy--but that shouldn't mask the fact that Long is never going to be prolific. Which, as you say, is a problem if no one else is likely to be either. Relying on Kebe to score goals is risky, given that he's such a mood player.

[Hoop Blah]

Long works his socks off, batters centre-halves. Does anyone doubt this?

He WEARS DOWN defenders.

And what are Reading renowned for this season? LATE GOALS.

This is exactly the kind of reason that shows how flawed your constant reliance on stats is.

It's a complex game that can't be narrowed down to simplistic stats that you keep throwing out and spamming the board with.

The sooner you realise that the sooner you might contribute some interesting material to the debate.

[West Stand Man]

Long works his socks off, batters centre-halves. Does anyone doubt this?

He WEARS DOWN defenders.

And what are Reading renowned for this season? LATE GOALS.

This is exactly the kind of reason that shows how flawed your constant reliance on stats is.

It's a complex game that can't be narrowed down to simplistic stats that you keep throwing out and spamming the board with.

The sooner you realise that the sooner you might contribute some interesting material to the debate.

No, it says more about your inability to understand and use stats. Sorry.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

I would hazard a guess Long has won 20 pens in his time at Reading. I guess because you dont see that on any stats. Only the guy who does the easy bit from 12 yards.

[Millsy]

How about we say, "The manager knows best. We are 8th, punching above our weight."

Agreed.

We are punching WAY above our weight. Brian is performing miracles and I'm delighted he's our man.

Way above our weight because like it or not, WE HAVE NO IN-FORM GOALSCORING STRIKERS AND NEED TO GET ONE AS A MATTER OF URGENCY.

[Snowball]

I would hazard a guess Long has won 20 pens in his time at Reading. I guess because you dont see that on any stats. Only the guy who does the easy bit from 12 yards.

Yup, making SHunt look better, Gylfi look better, and now Harte

[loyalroyal4life]

How about we say, "The manager knows best. We are 8th, punching above our weight."

Agreed.

We are punching WAY above our weight. Brian is performing miracles and I'm delighted he's our man.

Way above our weight because like it or not, WE HAVE NO IN-FORM GOALSCORING STRIKERS AND NEED TO GET ONE AS A MATTER OF URGENCY.

Well it might help is Noel got a run in the team!

[facaldaqui]

I would hazard a guess Long has won 20 pens in his time at Reading. I guess because you dont see that on any stats. Only the guy who does the easy bit from 12 yards.

Sometimes I wonder if opposing defenders might be better advised to let Shane run on at goal rather than scything him down, as he would probably miss.

[Selma Park]

Absolute shit from the usual suspects.

Shane just needs a good goal poacher with him. He has a phenomenal work rate, and is a creator to boot. I have not failed to be impressed watching him this season.

[Hoop Blah]

Absolute shit from the usual suspects.

Shane just needs a good goal poacher with him. He has a phenomenal work rate, and is a creator to boot. I have not failed to be impressed watching him this season.

Isn't that pretty much what most people have said on this thread?

If we are going to stick with one up on their own though Long isn't ever going to score that many. Ideally, if we want to consistently trouble the tops teams and challenge for the playoffs, we need our centre forward to chip in with more than a couple of penalties in a dozen games.

[PEARCEY]

Why are posters imagining how many goals we would score with Jamie Cureton alongside Long. Curo was a great goal-scorer in the lower divisions but didn't do it for us in the Championship. Lets not rewrite history.

[Snowball]

If we are going to stick with one up on their own though Long isn't ever going to score that many. Ideally, if we want to consistently trouble the tops teams and challenge for the playoffs, we need our centre forward to chip in with more than a couple of penalties in a dozen games.

but we are eighth, just two points off the play-offs

1 13 +21 29 Queens Park Rangers
2 12 +10 26 Cardiff City
3 13 +05 23 Swansea City
4 13 +04 23 Norwich City
5 13 +07 21 Watford
6 13 +04 21 Coventry City
7 13 +06 20 Burnley
8 13 +07 19 Reading


We narrowly lost to Swansea who were 7/8th
Millwall were 3rd when we drew 0-0 with them
Ipswich were 4th when we beat them 1-0
Burnley were fourth when we hammered them 4-0

[Hoop Blah]

By that I mean be a team that looks good for finishing 4/5 whilst challenging the top teams on league position, but possibly didn't make that clear enough.

I don't think we're there yet, and we look more like a team who will float between 6th and 15th and might just nick a playoff spot.

[Snowball]

By that I mean be a team that looks good for finishing 4/5 whilst challenging the top teams on league position, but possibly didn't make that clear enough.

I don't think we're there yet, and we look more like a team who will float between 6th and 15th and might just nick a playoff spot.

Fair enough. My personal view is that if we are not overly unlucky with injuries, and can get through the next few games
without a defeat, then we WILL make the top six. I think we have the capacity to do better than we have done
so far. The Scunny game was just dumb, we OG'd at Portsmouth, gifted Forest a goal, started badly and never
recovered at Boro, and had enough chances for a result versus Swansea and Bristol.

I think we will know the truth very soon because we have the run from hell coming. We have first, second, fourth, fifth and sixth to play
and neither Leeds or Sheffield look "easy". And Donny could easily stifle us with their 5-man ball-playing midfield.

H Doncaster
A QPR
H Cardiff City
H Norwich City
A Watford
H Leeds United
A Sheffield Utd
H Coventry City