Long - Time to go.

[cmonurz]

If you watch footage of the moon landings I can clearly be seen using an i-Pad in the reflection of Armstrong's helmet. Snowball is in the background counting grains of moon dust.



Snowball, I actually took the time to explain in my previous post the relevance of the 25 games I picked. It is an examination of the current trend, which sadly for Long extends back 25 league appearances. A very similar statistic is another current trend - 'Manchester United are unbeaten in 22 games in all competitions'. The stat isn't extended to 23 games just because it includes a defeat. If you can't understand my use of those stats as a trend, or why your sample of 31 games makes no statistical sense at all, then that's a shame.

My sample examines a current trend. Your sample pegs a few games on the back then purports to describe an average performance over that whole 31 games.

You are using stats purely to back up your point of view, will take no criticism of the sample size or type you choose, and resort to personal comments when posters disagree with your perspective on things, or indeed as you have done with my responses, begin to imply there is some kind of vendetta underpinning the post; the vendetta I'm afraid, to convince us Long is something he is not, lies solely with you.

I could only object to the 'Gwathoppa' thing you've started if I had any idea what it meant to you or anyone, but I don't. I find it unbelievable however that you could state you have no 'respect for me' because I disagree with you about something. How sad.

[Snowball]

Can you stop with the Gwathoppa crap, wherever it came from its derogative and highlights the fact that you're getting desperate and losing the argument

I am merely helping the young man. Gwathoppa sounds appropriate to me.

I dont think URZ or anyone else is saying Long is god awful, has never had a good run, or that he doesn't have THE POTENTIAL to be a good player. But quite frankly the way you bring up the stats to show 'he's similar to Doyle' do the most damage to discredit your own stupid stats, the two aren't even close and it's the reason Doyle is playing in the Premier League and why Shane is in danger of being replaced by a 21 year old Welsh International.

What is the title of the thread? The vast majority of posters in HNA are
hostile to Shane Long and always have been.

Shane Long's stats are not a long way from Doyle's stats. But as usual the slaggers and ass-kissers can't judge objective fact. For one thing they make the mistake of talking about "appearances" even when those appearances are for a minute or two minutes. DOYLE's appearances are 95% STARTS and he usually played the whole 90 minutes or came off on 85. Noel Hunt's STARTS averaged about 60-65 minutes, Churc h's average 75 minutes. When you compare minutes played and goals scored, the ratios are a lot closer than they appear at first glance.

You can't bask in past glories to defend a player.

Last season combined with this totals 34 starts for Long. I hardly call that "past glories"

Lee Nogan and Stuart Lovell are brilliant examples of strikers from Reading's history who in the past had purple patches of goalscoring but then tailed off so extremely in the space of just 12-18 months that they dropped a division or two even at relatively young ages.

Shane HASN'T tailed off, except marginally, for a mere 13 games
when he is being asked to play a different game

He has more or less improved every season with 2009-10 being his best

As a stats man answer this honestly. What's more likely to happen in the future...

Scenario A) Form over the last 25 games
Scenario B) Form over the 25 games previously

or form over the last 26 games? or form over the last 30 games? Or form over the last season? or form over the last two seasons?


FORM is temporary. CLASS is perminent. Remember that one?

A range of outside factors can lead to the two of those ranging from close to totally far apart but I DARE you to say you've put your house on scenario B.

But I didn't. I merely suggested 30 games to-date is better than 25 games to-date AND THAT IS MORE ACCURATE

You're missing the entire point of this debate in that some fans are questioning whether Shane Long is doing well enough RIGHT NOW as a STRIKER to warrant this formation or his own selection. Right now the results are going our way, Brian is happy and we're at or above where we expected to be, so stats or no stats we should be happy, but it doesn't mean we can't question things.

NOPE the thread says TIME TO GO. Not "time to rest Long"

[Victor Meldrew]

If anybody needed convincing about Long not being up to the mark then they should have been sat where we were yesterday watching Long have a free header at goal that he missed at the North End.
JImmy Quinn(look at his stats Snowball,or rather,please don't)and Trevor Senior and Martin Butler and even possibly Tony Rougier would have been turning in their football graves at such profligacy.
All around us people just groaned-we knew it wouldn't end up in the net.
For all the running ,all the effort and the fact that Brian can see no wrong in him he is just not good enough if we genuinely wish to press on and get back to the top level.
The same goes for some of the others but this topic is about Shane Long.

[Wimb]

Forget it Snowball, duck or twist every point I make that's fine. I'm quietly, well loudly content with the fact you're stats are getting e-fisted by just about every rational and objective poster on here.

As Brendy says what's the point.

[Victor Meldrew]

BTW Snowball class is permanent only if you have class in the first place.

[Still Hate Futcher!]

Must admit I'm getting fed up with all the pointless stats (those used both for and against Long). His performances this season have been good and the team's not doing too badly - that's all that matters.

Yes, strikers are judged on goals and yes, a more prolific striker might make all the difference but we don't have one at the moment so lets get behind the players we do have. Mark Hughes went through some pretty barren spells with Man U but nobody argued he was shit because he was of value to the team. Ditto Heskey for England who created shed loads for Owen and then Rooney.

[brendywendy]

shut the oxf*rd up all of you you bunch of gaylord derrbrains

[PEARCEY]

shut the oxf*rd up all of you you bunch of gaylord derrbrains

Ears deaf on falling

[Hoop Blah]

BTW Snowball class is permanent only if you have class in the first place.

You'd think that a professional writer would be able to spell wouldn't you!

Long had a shocker in front of goal yesterday. He also got caught offside too many times because he gets lazy and walks back from an offside position.

He did ok in most other aspects but his inability to make better use of the 4 good chances he had in the first half almost cost us the points. Others were at fault too, but Longs failure was expected because he has such a consistent record of doing so.

Can we just ban snowball by any chance?

[Snowball]

How's this for a stat.

FROM OPEN PLAY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP SHANE LONG HAS SCORED 13 GOALS FROM OPEN PLAY SINCE THE BEGINNING OF 2008/2009. IN THREE SEASONS HE AVERAGES LESS THEN 5 GOALS A SEASON.

If you want to keep banging on about ''cup goals' 'penalties won' 'assists' blah blah blah. FINE but the statistics clearly show that Shane Long is not scoring enough goals, end of.

It's a complete and utter rubbish stat

Player X scores 44 goals in 3 seasons
Player Y scores 11 goals in 3 seasons

Who is the better player?

If you can answer that you're an idiot

You need to know HOW MANY Games they've played



Player X has played every league and cup game, 150 games, 44 goals, so he's an OK striker

Player Y played 2 games, scored 2 goals, was in a car crash didn't play again that season, started season 2 and scored a hat-trick, then 2 goals, then 2 more, 8 in three games and got leukemia. Near the end of season 3 he came back and scored 4 goals in the last 3 games for his club, every one from a 65 yard dribble beating all the opposition players twice. Player Y is a genius about to be sold for 10 million.

[Snowball]

Forlán endured a difficult time at Manchester United. Although he made his debut for the club on 29 January against Bolton Wanderers, he did not score his first goal until 18 September, a penalty in a Champions League game against Maccabi Haifa. This goal drought, which lasted for 27 games during an eight month period, saw him dubbed "Diego Forlorn" and "Diego Birtles" (after Garry Birtles, a former United striker who had flopped) by some quarters of the English press.

and since?

106 appearances 54 goals Villarreal
109 appearances 69 goals Athletico Madrid
070 appearances 29 goals URUGUAY

285 appearances 152 goals

[cmonurz]

Forlán endured a difficult time at Manchester United. Although he made his debut for the club on 29 January against Bolton Wanderers, he did not score his first goal until 18 September, a penalty in a Champions League game against Maccabi Haifa. This goal drought, which lasted for 27 games during an eight month period, saw him dubbed "Diego Forlorn" and "Diego Birtles" (after Garry Birtles, a former United striker who had flopped) by some quarters of the English press.

and since?

106 appearances 54 goals Villarreal
109 appearances 69 goals Athletico Madrid
070 appearances 29 goals URUGUAY

285 appearances 152 goals

You really are shocking at this stats lark, aren't you. Problems with this little statoid:

- The paragraph you begin with talks about goals in all games (presumably, as his first was scored in a CL game); your subsequent stats are for domestic league games only.
- For some reason, despite asking 'and since?' you omitted his subsequent goals and appearances for United before he left for Villereal.

Try again. Never mind that Forlan has never played for Reading and so by your own rules this has nothing to do with the debate.

[Snowball]

2002–2004 Manchester United 63 (10)


Ten goals in 63, wowzer. That was hardly my point.


The guy was a class act, bought because he was class. It didn't work out for a while and he left.

The actual reality was he was one of the best strikers in the world.

[Snowball]

Forlán endured a difficult time at Manchester United. Although he made his debut for the club on 29 January against Bolton Wanderers, he did not score his first goal until 18 September, a penalty in a Champions League game against Maccabi Haifa. This goal drought, which lasted for 27 games during an eight month period, saw him dubbed "Diego Forlorn" and "Diego Birtles" (after Garry Birtles, a former United striker who had flopped) by some quarters of the English press.

and since?

106 appearances 54 goals Villarreal
109 appearances 69 goals Athletico Madrid
070 appearances 29 goals URUGUAY

285 appearances 152 goals

You really are shocking at this stats lark, aren't you. Problems with this little statoid:

- The paragraph you begin with talks about goals in all games (presumably, as his first was scored in a CL game); your subsequent stats are for domestic league games only.
- For some reason, despite asking 'and since?' you omitted his subsequent goals and appearances for United before he left for Villereal.

Try again. Never mind that Forlan has never played for Reading and so by your own rules this has nothing to do with the debate.

Yo talk twaddle. When were INTERNATIONAL goals (070 appearances 29 goals URUGUAY) "domestic league games only" ????


And the Villareal and Athletico Madrid stats are FOR ALL GAMES PLAYED, INCLUDING CUPS AND EUROPEAN GAMES.



TRY AGAIN,Gwathoppa

[cmonurz]

As I said, Forlan has no relevance to this thread.

But nevertheless a) of course I was not referring to the Uruguay games as being league only and b) you clearly don't think much of me that I would tell you those were Forlan's league games only without checking first. Look for yourself on the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Forl%C3%A1n

Try again, Snowball.

My post was made purely to highlight what a fcuk up you made of those stats. Your stats can't be trusted for their accuracy, nevermind their lack of bias.

You make a post that talks of Forlan's goal drought in all competitions, then post his record 'since' which omits 18 months of his career, and all club games that weren't league games. Awful statting.

[Snowball]

What ARE you talking about?

I used the same page as you

[Snowball]

As I said, Forlan has no relevance to this thread.

Forlan IS relevant. Just as Mark Hughes or Kevin Doyle are relevant.


They are examples of a forward having a blank time.

[cmonurz]

You claim Forlan made 106 appearances for Villereal in total, scoring 54 goals, all competitions.

Check again.

That is clearly not his record in all competitions for Villereal. You've made the same rudimentary error on his Atletico stats.

[cmonurz]

As I said, Forlan has no relevance to this thread.

Forlan IS relevant. Just as Mark Hughes or Kevin Doyle are relevant.


They are examples of a forward having a blank time.

Funny that, when I brought Sheringham into the argument I was told he was not relevant. As I said Snowball, just making up your own rules and fitting everything to your argument, as you go along.

[Snowball]

You claim Forlan made 106 appearances for Villereal in total, scoring 54 goals, all competitions.

Check again.

That is clearly not his record in all competitions for Villereal. You've made the same rudimentary error on his Atletico stats.

Could you get your mother to come to the phone Gwathoppa?

You posted the Wikipedia link.

if you click on the Wikipedia link, what does it say for Villareal?

2004–2007 Villarreal 106 (54)