Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

Snowball will probably dredge up some useless stats proving that we're better off without Rasiak and Sigurdson. Well I'm sorry any clown can see that we're desperately missing their goal threat at the moment, as quite simply Long, Hunt and Church are NOT goal scorers, they are all support strikers for an out and out goal scorer.

Unless McDermott does something about this, we could go down as confidence will soon disappear.

We are SIXTH, now, third best goal difference in the league, Scarface.

PS, Hi, how are you? I like reading your posts.

[Snowball]

To get all Snowball on your asses for a sec...

Long: 79 (83) apps, 30 goals. 1 goal every 5.4 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.6 starts.
Church: 33 (23) apps, 13 goals, 1 goal every 4.3 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.5 starts.
Hunt: 36 (23) apps, 15 goals, 1 goal every 3.9 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.4 starts.

Which just goes to show how painfully mediocre our 'strikeforce' (LOL) is. Or, using Snowball's logic, if Long is a 30 goal a season striker, and our other two are apparently more prolific, then we've got some forwards even Barca should covet.

Perhaps the most striking thing about those stats is how well Church stands up against the other two. Or perhaps how poorly Hunt does, I genuinely thought he had a better record than that.

I said a TWENTY-goal Championship striker, "rz"

Hunt is easy to explain. Most of our players play most of the 90 if they start. Hunt was playing SIXTY, all his scoring season, (Doyle averaged over 85 minutes)

So Hunt's goals-per-minutes was EXCELLENT, but he had to do his scoring in two-thirds of the time.

Add to that the fact that more goals are scored second half, that over a third of our goals are scored AFTER the 60th minute, and Hunt is explained

[Wycombe Royal]

Snowball - do you even care that you are ruining this forum for many long time members? It's a free country but can't you see (I believe that is one your phrases) that you are driving people away?

[Snowball]

Snowball - do you even care that you are ruining this forum for many long time members? It's a free country but can't you see (I believe that is one your phrases) that you are driving people away?

You could just as easily argue that the specific few who constantly snipe at me
are making the issue far worse. I like stats to try to resolve issues. Every stat I
post is bashed to hell looking for any small weakness or error.

Those who don't like stats can simply ignore the stats. How hard is that?

[brendywendy]

how is he driving them away?

if anything i can only see one person being driven away, and thats snowball.


i think its allowed for someone to post what they think. and even if they do it alot, i think if you dont like it, stop reading-put on ignore. and thats the end of it.

all this gay sniping is proper stoopid in my opinion

[floyd__streete]

I LOVE disagreement.

No you don't.

[brendywendy]

Personally speaking I enjoy a good stat and produce a view teeny-weeny ones of my own but but the thought of extracting that level of detail, let alone then analysing it further and pulling it Ridiculous criticism of Snowball imo.

He confines his posts to 3 or 4 threads, responds individually to many many posts and strongly defends his corner and his viewpoint. So?

I enjoy his posts, I enjoy Stranded's, Ian's, cmonurz's, Wimb's, and HB's (to name a few) but I only read a fraction of the contributions to these threads. I dip into Snowball's stats and think to myself, "that's interesting" and move on. Just accept them for what they are - an interestingly different view of a player's contribution to the team. Who cares if the reader doesn't believe that stats have a big part to play in football? It's a free world and different views are allowed. apart, does not fill me with joy. But generally, in principle, and in these isolated cases, I respect the guy who spends his time building the stats more than those who try to discredit them.

(But I'd respect him more if he cut the condescension. But then I've been guilty of that too on many occasions.)

+ a gazillion

[brendywendy]

Problem is Snowball, you take disagreement as 'ridicule', argument as 'pilliored'. They are not the same.

from what i can see from the concerted gayness is ridicule tbf.

i hate the protracted rows taking over every thread, but to blame snowball because you cant not react to a post is daft imo.

if no one had a go at him his posts would be confined to one or two interesting stat fests, and every thread would go on as usual.

[Hoop Blah]

Ian, you still average close on twice my posts per day AND YOU GET YOUR INFO FROM RADIO.

At least I actually watch live games.

You can't trust what you see through your eyes though right?* Isn't that what you always claim?*

Don't you judge everything on the 'facts' you gleam from the clubs official stats and match reports...not exactly a neutral source of data is it?*

* you don't really need to bother replying as I won't see the reply.

[cmonurz]

Problem is Snowball, you take disagreement as 'ridicule', argument as 'pilliored'. They are not the same.

from what i can see from the concerted gayness is ridicule tbf.

i hate the protracted rows taking over every thread, but to blame snowball because you cant not react to a post is daft imo.

if no one had a go at him his posts would be confined to one or two interesting stat fests, and every thread would go on as usual.

So the answer is not to respond? So a whole thread comes to an end once Snowball posts some stats?

I don't see the issue pointing out where stats are wrong, or where they appear irrelevant or misleading to the point being discussed.

[brendywendy]

Problem is Snowball, you take disagreement as 'ridicule', argument as 'pilliored'. They are not the same.

from what i can see from the concerted gayness is ridicule tbf.

i hate the protracted rows taking over every thread, but to blame snowball because you cant not react to a post is daft imo.

if no one had a go at him his posts would be confined to one or two interesting stat fests, and every thread would go on as usual.

So the answer is not to respond? So a whole thread comes to an end once Snowball posts some stats?

I don't see the issue pointing out where stats are wrong, or where they appear irrelevant or misleading to the point being discussed.

LOL- stupidest thing youve ever said imo

id imagine the thead would go on as it would have anyway. with people talking about stuff until they run out of stuff to say. unless snowball is responsible for all debate that occurs here, in which case id say he was indispensable.

there is no issue with pointing out stats are wrong/irrelevant/misleading if they are.
but from what i can see someone thinks every one of snowballs stats is all three of those things, when actually i think some of them arent. then they resort to telling him to oxf*rd off, shut up, calls for bannings etc.


there is no rule that you have to post everytime you disagree- maybe you could you just post a generic- "i think snowball is wrong" post at the start of each thread, then just refer back to that.
just dont see the harm in the stats tbf.

would this debate have continued after the 1st post if youd said your piece then just stopped?

nope

[brendywendy]

Ian, you still average close on twice my posts per day AND YOU GET YOUR INFO FROM RADIO.

At least I actually watch live games.

You can't trust what you see through your eyes though right?* Isn't that what you always claim?*

Don't you judge everything on the 'facts' you gleam from the clubs official stats and match reports...not exactly a neutral source of data is it?*

* you don't really need to bother replying as I won't see the reply.

you seem to be saying there is only one way to look at the game, only one right way.

its FACT that eyewitness statements can be a lot of rubbish, that peoples preformed opinions color what they see.hence why 25000 people can watch the same game and have wildly differing views of what theyve seen

surely stats are a way of moderating your predjudice, and helping form a better opinion?

[cmonurz]

Only if they are presented fairly?

[Platypuss]

Ridiculous criticism of Snowball imo.

He confines his posts to 3 or 4 threads,

That will be after probably another 20-odd have been merged or deleted first though.

[Wycombe Royal]

Shane Long has Snowball, and Snowball has Brendy.

How sweet.

[Hoop Blah]

Ian, you still average close on twice my posts per day AND YOU GET YOUR INFO FROM RADIO.

At least I actually watch live games.

You can't trust what you see through your eyes though right?* Isn't that what you always claim?*

Don't you judge everything on the 'facts' you gleam from the clubs official stats and match reports...not exactly a neutral source of data is it?*

* you don't really need to bother replying as I won't see the reply.

you seem to be saying there is only one way to look at the game, only one right way.

its FACT that eyewitness statements can be a lot of rubbish, that peoples preformed opinions color what they see.hence why 25000 people can watch the same game and have wildly differing views of what theyve seen

surely stats are a way of moderating your predjudice, and helping form a better opinion?

I'm not saying that no. I'm just pointing out that snowball has pretty much belittles any eyewitness accounts of the game and said they're inferior to the stats because the stats are totally impartial and accurate reflection of the games (which is bollocks on both counts by the way).

He's then slagging off IR for forming opinions on a game through the radio commentry when all his stats are bascially just a written commentry of the game.

Seemed a bit hypocritical to me thats all.

[Snowball]

I LOVE disagreement.

No you don't.

Floyd, you haven't a CLUE, what I like. I love reasoned argument, have been in many debating societies.

The "arguments" here are very rarely "reasoned". They are just statements without justifcation.

eg Kebe is rubbish, will never be a player.

[Snowball]

Ian, you still average close on twice my posts per day AND YOU GET YOUR INFO FROM RADIO.

At least I actually watch live games.

You can't trust what you see through your eyes though right?* Isn't that what you always claim?*
Don't you judge everything on the 'facts' you gleam from the clubs official stats and match reports...not exactly a neutral source of data is it?*

Typical mis-representation by Hoop (I promise not to read your posts) Blah.

Sources of Data I use. The Championship Official Site, Actim, Soccerbase, Wikipedia, Stats from News and TV, My own research, notes, the Club Official site, actual eyeball games.


You are WRONG (as usual). Of course we can see things but we have an extremely subjective bias
and that has to be countered by careful analysis if "the evidence of our own eyes" is to be worth anything

I have a book beside me, an academic tome called "Evaluating Witness Evidence"

In a nutshell witnesses are absolutely CRAP and get it wildly wrong more than 50% of the time
(and this is for serious crimes, murder, manslaughter etc)

* you don't really need to bother replying as I won't see the reply.

of course, Hoop. I believe you.

[Snowball]

[

Oh shut up you hypocritical little cretin,

Thank GOD there are no insults on this thread.

Wimb, I REALLY appreciate your insight and look forward to reading yet more of them.

[Platypuss]

There are EIGHTY-TWO strikers named. I'm hardly going to research every one
and work out when they scored, whether it was a starter's or a sub's goal,
how many minutes they have played etc etc

... as I know the answer won't suit my argument.


That's snowballistics!

Platt, don't be a dick. Just work out how many hours of work it would be to trawl through every game played this season, for every club, first finding out if the players started or didn't, when they came off if they started, when they came on if they came on a sub. It would be a nightmare!

Obviously touched a nerve.

We all know full well that if there was the slightest chance that such an analysis would vindicate your position you'd be at it faster than you could say "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder".