Back from the game - QPR

[Wimb]

Gutless and toothless in equal measure.

Coming from one of the more intelligent football posters on here that is worrying.

FWIW do you think that the loss of Siggy has had a detremental effect on the squad?

Despite the stats it seems that the goals from him from distance are missing from the current players.

Partly the loss of Sigy as a player but more so the failure to reinvest more than 1% of the proceeds.

That just sends as clear a message as is possible regarding the ambitions of the club and it's been picked up on by the fans who are becoming fewer in number. What's the point in investing time, effort and money following a team who's ambition doesn't extend beyond being financially viable? It's not an inspiration to make the blood rush through the veins.

It's hard to imagine that it doesn't ultimately impact on the players who know that in the unlikely event of our leftovers put a good run together, those who are responsible and can command a fee will be promptly flogged off.

God change the record Schards

This squad has just as much money invested in it transfer fee wise as the team that had 106 points, that team didn't have success overnight and nor will this team that Brian's building now. It's going to take time and Brian himself has said he wants too and has the funds to bring in a player or two (on the basis that they just missed out on a striker at the deadline) ffs we're not even half way through the season yet. Cast your minds back to seasons such as 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 and we were getting similar results against bigger sides while players like Sidwell, Shorey, Harper etc were still honing their craft. Did you think we were showing 'ambition' when we were picking up Brentford castoffs like Sonko and Hunt, goalkeepers who's last run outs were at Rochdale, signing strikers from Division 3 or taking a punt on a winger from the States who's first season was pretty terrible. Perhaps it's wise to place trust in a management team and board that have seen this club rise from mid table third tier to consistently challenging in the top ten of the second tier or higher every year since 2002.

I don't quite know where this 'we'll flog off our stars' mentality has come from either. The only player we've 'cashed in' on was Siggy and NO team in the Championship without a sugardaddy or at the least parachute payments could turn £7 million down. Other players to leave have been because they wanted too, why would Kitson, Doyle, Shunt, Shorey, Sidwell want to stay, they'd done what they could with the club and in hindsight we did bloody well getting so much for Sonko and Kitson.

This 'lack of ambition' mentality really annoys me because I honestly don't know what more 'ambition' you want the club to show? What exactly is so wrong with the team or the club that needs fixing other then maybe a better striker a central midfielder and perhaps a better quality of reserve winger. As I said there is the POTENTIAL for this team to grow and really challenge. As someone in this or another thread pointed out, the average age of this squad is very young and with experience and patience it MIGHT turn into something special. Is there a guarantee of success? of course not. But neither does splashing cash either. Sean Evers, Scott Murray, Shaun Goater, Emerse Fae, Greg Halford, Carl Asaba all classic examples of transfer fees paid out for with little of no reward.

I'm not so deluded or up Madejski's/the clubs arse that I don't think mistakes have been or will be made. I'm also not suggesting that this is the final product but I am happy that we're still getting good results this season, we're competing with just about every other side in this league and we could still end up with a trip to Wembley at the end of the season.

If fans don't want to show up because the ticket prices are too high, they don't like Brian's tactics or they've had enough then that's fair enough. EVERY SINGLE CLUB bar perhaps the top 5-6 in the PL have attendance fluctuations and we're no different. I'll cast you back to 2005/2006, our best ever season at this level and even then, the attendances were below 18k until the second half 'half season ticket' bandwagon got rolling. Attendance since then has been inflated by the Premier League years and another mini surge when it looked like we might get up to the PL again and 1500 or so fans held onto season tickets because of price deals based on if we got up.

So Schards I know you've been going for probably longer then I've been alive and you're a decent rational bloke but I don't understand what you, or the 'Madejski out' 'the club's got no ambition' brigade are on about. This is the same Reading as it's ever been and we're on course for one of the ten best finishes in this club's history. If you want to see where short term whinging about 'ambition' gets you then look no further then Charlton who changed their mentality after fans got 'bored' under Alan Curbishly and where did it get them?

[Snowball]

do you lot only see one side of the game, jesus, firstly, the red card was never a red, and even so, you had 55 minutes, yes, FIFTY FIVE minutes, to win a game against 10 men, you'd never have known who had the tem men in the second half, Adel was leagues above any Reading player, you'd LOVE to watch that week in week out, take the defeat on the chins, you were beaten by the better side.

Don't know about the card (too far away) but CORRECT

[Snowball]

As i said, you were good, certainly better than us, but It's a long road, you are there now, let's see in Feb.

Oh come on! If we finish within four places of QPR that will be a fantastic achievement.

They will almost certainly finish top or second, and we will be 5-10th, probably around 7-8th unless we buy a commanding, classy midfielder to run the game.

We were over-run 11 v 11 and easily cut through when we were 11 v 10

[Snowball]

Elmer Park, that's an excellent post.

yup!


And Royal Lady, even Coppell used to say the results against the Prem big four were irrelevant.

We aren't playing on a level playing field and sides like Pompey-QPR-Cardiff are, in a way cheating.


The new FIFA financial rules coming soon will dramatically change football and the well-run, properly budgeted clubs will take a big step forward.

[Percy's Rocket]

Excellent post Wimb except of course this is not the same Reading that those of us that go back 30+ years have experienced ...this is FAR BETTER..though I have read posts saying the club has no ambition and is going nowhere with incredulity. The club are competing well at the second tier and are apparently financially stable. Yes we would all like another go at the prem but not at the cost of the future of the club. There really is no pleasing some people.

[PEARCEY]

Wimb. If any other club in the country sold the number of players for the transfer values we have and re-invested so little of that money in new signings you would have huge swathes of that clubs fan-base up in arms. Why do you expect fans of Reading to be any different?
Steve Coppell even admitted his error in not strengthening during 2007/08 so you really should forgive some of us for being just a tad frustrated that after finally reaching the top-flight our stay was so brief because of lack of investment in playing staff.
Now you may be right and we may continue to challenge at this level. After many decades of lower division football and under achievement it really was about time this club started to become more successful. That has happened but there is a nagging doubt in my mind and probably the likes of Schards that we are slowly but surely going to fall away and maybe drop back into the lower divisions. It took Leeds a number of seasons to get back to tier 2 so there really would be no guarantee we could get back up again quickly.
No fan-base has a divine right to success. However whichever way you look at it we have not seen much investment in the playing squad(Mills apart) for a long time now. That will make it incredibly difficult for any manager to succeed. Just because Coppell performed miracles with signings from Brentford and Wexford doesn't mean McDermott or any-one else can do the same.

[super darren caskey]

Wimb. If any other club in the country sold the number of players for the transfer values we have and re-invested so little of that money in new signings you would have huge swathes of that clubs fan-base up in arms. Why do you expect fans of Reading to be any different?
Steve Coppell even admitted his error in not strengthening during 2007/08 so you really should forgive some of us for being just a tad frustrated that after finally reaching the top-flight our stay was so brief because of lack of investment in playing staff.
Now you may be right and we may continue to challenge at this level. After many decades of lower division football and under achievement it really was about time this club started to become more successful. That has happened but there is a nagging doubt in my mind and probably the likes of Schards that we are slowly but surely going to fall away and maybe drop back into the lower divisions. It took Leeds a number of seasons to get back to tier 2 so there really would be no guarantee we could get back up again quickly.
No fan-base has a divine right to success. However whichever way you look at it we have not seen much investment in the playing squad(Mills apart) for a long time now. That will make it incredibly difficult for any manager to succeed. Just because Coppell performed miracles with signings from Brentford and Wexford doesn't mean McDermott or any-one else can do the same.

+1 well said

[facaldaqui]

I agree with both Wimb and Pearcey. Do you remember that season when we were lolloping along, at about the present level of achievement, with the likes of Goater and Owusu in the team? Who'd have thought we could go up another level? All the same, as then, it's frustrating as a supporter to see obvious shortcomings in the playing staff which, for whatever reason, show no sign of being rectified.

Like it or not, Reading are destined to be, as ever, a cut-price outfit for the foreseeable future. That doesn't, however, mean we can never be promoted again. With the right manager and team blend, the time may come when we click again. Budget outfits do get promoted, such as Burnley, Blackpool, and ourselves last time.

[Wimb]

Wimb. If any other club in the country sold the number of players for the transfer values we have and re-invested so little of that money in new signings you would have huge swathes of that clubs fan-base up in arms. Why do you expect fans of Reading to be any different?
Steve Coppell even admitted his error in not strengthening during 2007/08 so you really should forgive some of us for being just a tad frustrated that after finally reaching the top-flight our stay was so brief because of lack of investment in playing staff.
Now you may be right and we may continue to challenge at this level. After many decades of lower division football and under achievement it really was about time this club started to become more successful. That has happened but there is a nagging doubt in my mind and probably the likes of Schards that we are slowly but surely going to fall away and maybe drop back into the lower divisions. It took Leeds a number of seasons to get back to tier 2 so there really would be no guarantee we could get back up again quickly.
No fan-base has a divine right to success. However whichever way you look at it we have not seen much investment in the playing squad(Mills apart) for a long time now. That will make it incredibly difficult for any manager to succeed. Just because Coppell performed miracles with signings from Brentford and Wexford doesn't mean McDermott or any-one else can do the same.

I'm just as frustrated Pearcy, I happened to be at Uni in the frozen North during the 106 year and the year after so missed out on the fun and would LOVE to be able to watch that quality week in week out. As I said I know we've fecked up in the past but we can't have that time again and it's just got to go down as a lesson learned and a chance missed.

The transfer fees are irrelevant unless stacked up against the entire financial status of the club at the time. This argument has been done to death but that money has been used to either pay off overdrafts, wages or in some cases HAS been invested back in players or new contracts etc. The Sig deal in my own opinion is also not 'done' because the funds we received haven't had a full chance to be spent yet. If we don't buy or at least loan 1 or 2 in the window then I think we've every right to feel aggrieved.

Unless the conspiracy theorists' are to be believed even despite such record sales the club was still making a loss but did fork out a combined £4 million or so for Mills, McAnuff, Rasiak, Cummings, Howard, Griffin while keeping/loaning players on decent contracts like Marek, Cisse, Armstrong, NHunt, Zurab who were bought when we still had Parachute payments.

It's obviously asking a hell of a lot of Brian to be able to repeat Coppell's successes and we may well not do so, but as I said I'm keeping faith with a clubs hierarchy that has a track record of success and following a blueprint that has worked before. I think there's more chance of us going back up then going down but could it happen? well yes but we're not in the same position as Leeds, Southampton or Bradford because their financial restructuring was a far more painful and drawn out process then ours, which by all accounts is now well and truly over thanks to the sale of Siggy. That sale to me closed the book on the 'cutting the cloth' mantra from the board and from this point forward I think we've every right to expect any fees received to be reinvested.

Investing in a team isn't just about money spent or wages paid, it's about giving players time to grow and flourish. How many people last year going into the season would have picked Sig over Marek for example? Watching Robson-Kanu, Church, Long, Karacan have inconsistent performances is frustrating but the rewards for giving them a chance to stake a claim is worth it. Some players on that pitch won't push us forward long term that's a given but over time we'll replace those but it's going to take TIME. People talk of ambition but isn't it ambitious of the club to put its faith in home grown talent?

This isn't really about the club of 2010/2011 vs the club of the 70's. What is is about is seeing the similarities between this team and the process we went through on building the last period of success. With the upheaval at the club I would personally argue that this season should be the first true 'post Coppell' season where Brian has almost a clean slate to work with. To me success this season will be finishing in the top 10 and feeling that we've improved as a team.

[Royal Lady]

As I have said on many occasions down the years, I don't mind losing if we have been playing well and it's been a close game or whatever. What I do mind is when some players really don't appear to be putting in the effort. I can only assume that from McD down, the team had already thought like "pea" or whatever his name is, that as QPR were a top side, we wouldn't get anything from the game.

And going back to when we were in the Prem, we had some fantastic results agains the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd in particular - and those results were certainly counted by Coppell and everybody else - a point is a point.

[Snowball]

And going back to when we were in the Prem, we had some fantastic results agains the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd in particular - and those results were certainly counted by Coppell and everybody else - a point is a point.

Of course, but those results, Coppel said, were not the ones that mattered.

His aim was to be top of the bottom third

[Croydon Royal]

Back to the game for a second - there's a good article in this month's Four Four Two about how teams need to play against ten men. The key, it's suggested, is the full backs, who need to get forward in order to threaten the space left at the back. If you take advantage of this then the opposition will have to pull even more players back and that will then either give you a chance to get men in the box or build things more promisingly from the centre of the park. Our problem is that with Harte and Griffin (especially Harte), we don't have men who get forward. For the last few years our full backs have always been a key part in our attacking play, but neither seem to have the legs to get forward on a regular basis - the only time Griffin got forward yesterday was when he took throw ins while Harte barely pushed past the half way line. This made it easy for QPR to defend against...if you're only playing 1 up front then Harte's crosses from deep into the box are pointless, as was proven yesterday when every single one of them trickled through to the keeper. Armstrong in for Harte on Wednesday please, and while I'm certainly not calling for Griffin to be dropped (in fact he's one of my favourite players) I thought he had a poor game - his passing was poor, he didn't get forward enough and while he was up against a great player, he was made to look stupid by him. The best thing I can say was that at least he didn't get sent off, as if I was him I'd have been tempted to kick Taarabt up in the air at every opportunity.

QPR are a typical Warnock side - fast, strong, physical, and know how to defend a lead. They're certainly not the most attractive team in the division, but they'll be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. I absolutely can't stand their time-wasting though, I understand a bit of it towards the end but they took it to the extreme and were intent on doing it from the start of the second half. Some of Kenny's time-wasting was completely over the top and shame on the ref for not clamping down on it. I even spoke to a few QPR fans on the way home who actually said that even they were embarrassed by it.

P.S - It's been said before on here but Taarabt is such a good player, why oh why does he insist on cheating so blatantly? He's a far better player than QPR's standard but his attitude and approach to the game shows me why he's still only plying his trade at Loftus Road.

PPS – A note on the second goal when it all kicked off down in the bottom left hand corner – I’m certainly not condoning the Reading fans that tried to jump on the pitch, but Kenny is a professional footballer, and despite the goading should not have celebrated in front of the away end so poignantly. Fans shouldn’t take the bait so easily, but history tells us that they do, and as a professional he should be aware of that. A young kid got kicked in the face by one of the fans trying to jump on the pitch, and that wouldn’t have happened if Kenny hadn’t celebrated how he did. I simply can’t understand how a player can get booked for celebrating with his own crowd after scoring, but a player doesn’t get booked for celebrating in front of the opposition fans. Andy Johnson has always done this, and to me it’s far worse than the “bookable offence” of celebrating with your own fans.

PPPS – I don’t think I’ve seen us win away from home now since Doncaster away last year, having missed the Burnley and Leicester games. You’ll be all glad to know that I’m not going to Watford!

[Winnershroyal]

As i said, you were good, certainly better than us, but It's a long road, you are there now, let's see in Feb.

Oh come on! If we finish within four places of QPR that will be a fantastic achievement.

They will almost certainly finish top or second, and we will be 5-10th, probably around 7-8th unless we buy a commanding, classy midfielder to run the game.

We were over-run 11 v 11 and easily cut through when we were 11 v 10

I wasn't saying we would be close to Rangers or werent well well beaten, quite the opposite but I'm saying they won't runaway with it ( IMO ), history says they will implode. I still reckon we are 8th 9th 10th material and that is just about right with the current squad.

[strap]

And going back to when we were in the Prem, we had some fantastic results agains the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd in particular - and those results were certainly counted by Coppell and everybody else - a point is a point.

Of course, but those results, Coppel said, were not the ones that mattered.

His aim was to be top of the bottom third

I wonder what our current "aim" is? From the evidence available, I'd say we were aming to be top of the middle third in this division. Would suit Mr Mad down to the ground. There would be the apparent flirtation with a play-off place, but with no realistic chance of going up, and hence wages and transfer fees would be capped at our "sensible" levels.

To be honest, would any of us moan if we were to finish 9th this year? In our heart of hearts I think not.

[Royal Lady]

i'd only moan if we finished 9th if we were higher than that for the rest of the season! I haven't looked at the table. Where are we now? Is it 9th?

[SLAMMED]

10th

[Royal Lady]

Cheers. Well if stay around 10th all season and finish 9th I won't be disappointed. If we stay top 8 and then finish 9th, I will be. Hope that clears it up for everyone.

[Ian Herring]

Cheers. Well if stay around 10th all season and finish 9th I won't be disappointed. If we stay top 8 and then finish 9th, I will be. Hope that clears it up for everyone.

Certainly sounds like feminine logic to me.

[Royal Lady]

Cheers. Well if stay around 10th all season and finish 9th I won't be disappointed. If we stay top 8 and then finish 9th, I will be. Hope that clears it up for everyone.

Certainly sounds like feminine logic to me.

still a bit alcohol addled from yesterday tbf.

[Snowball]

Funny how eyeballing can be so wrong.

At QPR, I was about five yards from the penalty and I "knew" it was Millsy who did the tackle but I thought it "wasn't really a penalty" and that Taarabt went looking for it and play-acted.

It wasn't. Watching slo-mo on Sky.

It was a clear-cut penalty and Ian Royal is right that it was Howard who gave it away.

Incidentally, IMO it was a sending-off tackle. Howard leaves the ground, flies in with studs showing.

It's Howard not tackling that allows Taarabt to be fed the ball in the first place. Maybe H was trying to make up for his poor defending. Taarabt does EXCEEDINGLY well skinning Karacan and Griffin and the penalty was (a) deserved (b) as cool as Gylfi's best.


Earlier, Howard and HRK were at fault for some inept mid-field play resulting in the Faurlin shot which hit the woodwork before Hulse's ridiculous miss. BTW Griffin does really well. He's the only RFC outfield player reacting after the shot and is trying to cover Hulse's (cough) shot, then does well to hoof it clear. He also makes a brilliant tackle late in the second half when the QPR man is through with the goal at his mercy


Fedders did brilliantly to keep out Taarabt's free-kick, but when Tommy Smith reacts first, where were our defenders? Mills and Griffin aren't even in shot!

Harte was done by a very good through ball for the other goal. His man didn't actually score, but he was still done..


And the QPR sending off could hardly be clearer. Straight red.