Long - Time to go.

[Alan Partridge]

This is all a bit excessive is it not? Almost worrying.

Shane Long has his merits most definitely, his all round game has improved and he's a lot fitter than he was this time last season. I don't think the system suits him personally but he's the best of the strikers available to try and play in it in my opinion.

He's not my favourite player by any means, he blows far too hot and cold and isn't a natural goalscorer, a slight problem when you play 4-5-1 and you've lost 20 goals in the form of Sigurdsson.

But this mega love in followed by a barrage of meaningless stats and reports of goals he scored 5 years ago is bordering on an obsession. Are we going to get threads and 'debate' like this after every single game this season? If he doesn't score time to go, and if he does 50 posts by Snowball. I don't know whats worse. Watching Shane amble around pointlessly for 90minutes or trying to read 10 posts made by Snowball if Shane has a really good game.

Shane if you read this mate, for the good of the world it's probs best you get a niggling injury or suspension for the next few games and give us all a break from this.

[cmonurz]

Above all else, the very fact that anyone has the time to list all of a striker's goals in his Reading career, plus a description of each, when he is in the 6th year of that career, should tell us that he hasn't scored enough.

[Snowball]

Above all else, the very fact that anyone has the time to list all of a striker's goals in his Reading career, plus a description of each, when he is in the 6th year of that career, should tell us that he hasn't scored enough.

Longy has had 80 starts, a fair few in cup matches under Coppell where we put out the second team.

I thought it would be interesting to see just what kind of goals Longy has scored,
since the BS view is either he score 95% of his goals from two feet out, or they
are penalties or free-kicks, or from free-kicks. Both views are false.

An average distance only a couple of yards different from Gylfi (taking out Gylfi's three scored free-kicks)
I find that VERY interesting. And Gylfi's three in open play 35-22-22 yards are what put his average out there.

Without those 3, on average he actually scores from CLOSER in than Shane!

What I LOVE is the way Shane is pilloried for not scoring from open play when 29/32 goals, I think ARE from open play

Gylfi scored 22 goals, 7 penalties and three free-kicks, so just 12/22 in open play or 54%. Compared to Shane's 91%

[Alan Partridge]

Above all else, the very fact that anyone has the time to list all of a striker's goals in his Reading career, plus a description of each, when he is in the 6th year of that career, should tell us that he hasn't scored enough.

Longy has had 80 starts, a fair few in cup matches under Coppell where we put out the second team.

I thought it would be interesting to see just what kind of goals Longy has scored,
since the BS view is either he score 95% of his goals from two feet out, or they
are penalties or free-kicks, or from free-kicks. Both views are false.

An average distance only a couple of yards different from Gylfi (taking out Gylfi's three scored free-kicks)
I find that VERY interesting. And Gylfi's three in open play 35-22-22 yards are what put his average out there.

Without those 3, on average he actually scores from CLOSER in than Shane!

What I LOVE is the way Shane is pilloried for not scoring from open play when 29/32 goals, I think ARE from open play

Gylfi scored 22 goals, 7 penalties and three free-kicks, so just 12/22 in open play or 54%. Compared to Shane's 91%

You know as well as i do, the open play criticism isn't something that's 'always' been labelled towards Shane Long. Merely this season where Saturday and into the 15th game of the season he scored his first goal in open play.

So again that comparison is a nonsense.

[Snowball]

There are really not that many strikers doing great as yet, and almost 43% are doing worse than Shane

9 Goals 01 Strikers Top 01.2%
8 Goals 02 Strikers Top 03.6%
7 Goals 01 Strikers Top 04.8%
6 Goals 04 Strikers Top 09.6%
5 Goals 03 Strikers Top 13.4%
4 Goals 07 Strikers Top 21.9%
3 Goals 10 Strikers Top 34.1%

2 Goals 19 Strikers Top 57.3%

65.8% of Listed Strikers have scored 2 goals or less
42.6% of Listed Strikers have scored 1 goals or less

1 Goals 23 Strikers 28.0%
0 Goals 12 Strikers 14.6%

Saturday, one player on 3 goals moved to four, 2 players on 2 (one Shane) moved to 3.

That now puts Shane in the top 35% of all strikers so far this season. Oh and who thought we should sign Hulse?

[Snowball]

You know as well as i do, the open play criticism isn't something that's 'always' been labelled towards Shane Long. Merely this season where Saturday and into the 15th game of the season he scored his first goal in open play.

So again that comparison is a nonsense.

You mean that a relatively short period, where Shane is being asked to play in a very different way
has resulted in a temporary change in scoring patterns, but the knee-jerking mongs, ever-seeking
a new slant on how to critcise a player, grabbed at this, even though they should know that long-term
Shane has no problem whatsoever scoring in open play, that form is temporary and (relative) class is permanent?

[Alan Partridge]

1/3 of a season to get 1 is slightly concerning. No matter how well certain aspects of his play have improved. Great goal saturday might well start one of those bursts that he tends to have. So Yep I agree form is temporary, class is permanent. Why Shane for me often falls into that 'form' category as he tends to go through little burts of good and bad.

[Big Foot]

1/3 of a season to get 1 is slightly concerning. No matter how well certain aspects of his play have improved. Great goal saturday might well start one of those bursts that he tends to have. So Yep I agree form is temporary, class is permanent. Why Shane for me often falls into that 'form' category as he tends to go through little burts of good and bad.

When he's good, he's good - when he's bad, he's turgid

I would say that if Shane was not a footballer, he'd be well suited to the world of IT Recruitment such is his up and down nature

[cmonurz]

There are really not that many strikers doing great as yet, and almost 43% are doing worse than Shane

9 Goals 01 Strikers Top 01.2%
8 Goals 02 Strikers Top 03.6%
7 Goals 01 Strikers Top 04.8%
6 Goals 04 Strikers Top 09.6%
5 Goals 03 Strikers Top 13.4%
4 Goals 07 Strikers Top 21.9%
3 Goals 10 Strikers Top 34.1%

2 Goals 19 Strikers Top 57.3%

65.8% of Listed Strikers have scored 2 goals or less
42.6% of Listed Strikers have scored 1 goals or less

1 Goals 23 Strikers 28.0%
0 Goals 12 Strikers 14.6%

Saturday, one player on 3 goals moved to four, 2 players on 2 (one Shane) moved to 3.

That now puts Shane in the top 35% of all strikers so far this season. Oh and who thought we should sign Hulse?

Rob Hulse - 309 minutes, 1 goal from open play.
Shane Long - 1,168 minutes, 1 goal from open play.

As for strikers on 3 goals - if you're going to claim Long is in the 'top 35% of strikers' then you really should include games played.

And Snowball, Long's goal yesterday was his second in open play in his last 26 league appearances (25 starts). Prior to that he scored 4 in 4 league games, after another drought back to the start of last season.

So from the first league game last season his record for goals in open play is:

1. 15 games, no goals
2. 4 games, 4 goals
3. 26 games, 2 goals

So that's two prolonged droughts sandwiching one purple patch. You description of his current scoring rate as being a 'temporay change in scoring patterns' is laughable.

[Snowball]

It isn't so much "bursts of form" it's more that Shane starts the season slowly

He is actually ahead of any other season in terms of league goals scored.
If, as usual he has a much better second half of the season, he'd be on for 10-14 goals

2006-07

Goal 1 (cup) 22 Oct
Goal 2 (cup) 09 Jan

League Goal 01 - 20 Jan (15th Appearance)

2007-08

League Goal 01 - 29 Sep (07th Appearance)
League Goal 02 - 27 Oct (09th Appearance)
League Goal 03 - 08 Mar (27th Appearance)


2008-09

League Goal 01 - 04 Oct (12th Appearance)
League Goal 02 - 13 Dec (23rd Appearance)

2009-10

First Goal (Cup) 13-Jan (15th Appearance)

League Goal 01 30 Jan (19th Appearance)

[cmonurz]

You've ignored all of my points and moved on to something else. Bad form.

[Snowball]

So six goals in open play, plus 3 penalties in his last 30 games?

[Snowball]

You've ignored all of my points and moved on to something else. Bad form.

I was answering Partridge, whose question was before yours

See that bit where I said "bursts of form" (that was a clue)

[cmonurz]

Not interested, put the goalposts down.

[Snowball]

Not interested, put the goalposts down.

Of COURSE you're not interested Sammy Selective


The stats that matter are NOT games without goals, or sequences with or without goals
but a SEASON and how much worth the player has, overall and relative to the rest of the team


2008-09 Whole Season = 15 (26) = 19.33 games = 9 goals
2009-10 Whole Season = 24 (12) = 26.00 games = 9 goals
2010-11 Whole Season = 42 (00) = 42.00 games = 9 goals (projected on current games = 14 (3) )

77 Games 27 goals = a goal every 2.85 games


Doyle got 56 goals in 145 (17) =148 games = a goal every 2.64 games

HUGE DIFFERENCE, right?

[Snowball]

Would you agree that a fair measure of a player is his last two
complete seasons and the projection for the current season?

[cmonurz]

77 Games 27 goals = a goal every 2.85 games


Doyle got 56 goals in 145 (17) =148 games = a goal every 2.64 games

HUGE DIFFERENCE, right?

Still not interested until you put the goalposts down. As if 27 goals in 77 games is in any way representative of Shane Long's scoring feats for this club.

You should seriously look back at your posts and see what you did. You repeat this trick time and again.

1. Snowball posts stats and make argument
2. Poster argues against those stats
3. Snowball posts different stats to prove a different point.

In this case, you claimed that Long's inability to score from open play was a 'temporary change' in scoring patterns. The actual 'temporary change' was when Long got 4 in 4 and my stats showed that. That's it. What you've then done is move the goalposts. It's not on.

[Snowball]

Long has scored 32 goals for this club, 29 in open play = 91%

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

Last season Long scored 9 goals for this club, 8 in open play = 88%

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

The season before Long score 9 goals for this club, all 9 in open play = 100%

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

This season, so far 33.33% of his goals are in open play. He gets one more and it's 50%

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

There is nothing "selective" about quoting ALL Shane's games for Reading,
or anything selective about quoting his last two full seasons with this season

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

[Big Foot]

LOL

Snowball has gone

[cmonurz]

More stats Snowball, but they don't address the point I made, and the problem I had with your post.

For the third time - to describe Long's current abysmal run from open play as a 'temporary change' is, frankly, utter bullshit. The 'temporary' change was his run of 4 goals from open play in 4 games, about halfway through last season.

That's all I am pointing out, and as I posted above, you are now moving the goalposts and posting new and different stats to make a different point entirely.