Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

77 Games 27 goals = a goal every 2.85 games

Doyle got 56 goals in 145 (17) =148 games = a goal every 2.64 games

HUGE DIFFERENCE, right?

As if 27 goals in 77 games is in any way representative of Shane Long's scoring feats for this club.

THEY ARE HIS FIGURES FOR THE LAST TWO FULL SEASON PLUS THIS SEASON. DO YOU DENY THAT AS A FACT?

HIS FULL READING CAREER IS 80 (83) = 93.83 Games = 32 Goals Or do you dispute that?


His total reading Career, some of those games he was a green 18 year old.

A goal every 2.92 Games. And now that's improved to 2.85. Where is the surprise?

[Snowball]

More stats Snowball, but they don't address the point I made, and the problem I had with your post.

For the third time - to describe Long's current abysmal run from open play as a 'temporary change' is, frankly, utter bullshit. The 'temporary' change was his run of 4 goals from open play in 4 games, about halfway through last season.

That's all I am pointing out, and as I posted above, you are now moving the goalposts and posting new and different stats to make a different point entirely.

Nope. YOU are being selective. Choose full seasons. How can that ever be wrong?

Incidentally, how many games was that you were selecting? Which is the first game of your deliberately selective run?

[cmonurz]

You're clearly getting angry again Snowball, because the accusations have started. There's nothing 'deliberately selective' about it - any more than going back to the start of last season, the start of a season being a reasonable place to do so, I would have thought, and so as not to be accused of focusing purely on Long's abysmal form this season.

You keep moving the goalposts and you are making yourself look very silly. If you could get down off your pedestal for a minute you'd see how many different posters disagree with the ways in which you present your data or the arguments you derive from them. Consider for a second that we're not all just stupid little, ignorant people and that we might have a point.

You are refusing to answer my claim - that your post that Long's terrible run this season is a 'temporary change' in scoring pattern is complete and utter bullshit. The stats show otherwise. He has had one purple patch. Outside of that he has utterly failed to score consistently over a period of time in open play.

[Snowball]

You are refusing to answer my claim - that your post that Long's terrible run this season is a 'temporary change' in scoring pattern is complete and utter bullshit. The stats show otherwise. He has had one purple patch. Outside of that he has utterly failed to score consistently over a period of time in open play.

I can categorically PROVE, in an instant, that Long's terrible run was temporary.

IT-IS-OVER.

He is currently scoring a goal per game, in open play. FACT


Not only that, he is the only Reading player to score, AT ALL. Fact.

Surely you don't object to being CURRENT, and CURRENTLY, Shane is scoring 1 goal every 1 game.

[Snowball]

Outside of that he has utterly failed to score consistently over a period of time in open play.

a carefully-selected "period of time"

Choosing an AGREED "period of time", like a whole season, and he's fine.


Kevin Doyle went 27, TWO-SEVEN, TWENTY-SEVEN consecutive games without scoring a single goal of any description

[SLAMMED]

[Snowball]

Argument.

[Wimb]

Long has scored 32 goals for this club, 29 in open play = 91% WRONG

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

Last season Long scored 9 goals for this club, 8 in open play = 88%

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

The season before Long score 9 goals for this club, all 9 in open play = 100% WRONG

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

This season, so far 33.33% of his goals are in open play. He gets one more and it's 50%

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

There is nothing "selective" about quoting ALL Shane's games for Reading,
or anything selective about quoting his last two full seasons with this season

DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?

I can dispute 2 of those as Long has scored 4 penalties by my count, and listed to prove it....

10-3-09 vs Charlton
09-2-10 vs Plymouth
11-9-10 vs Palace
23-10-10 vs Burnley

Therefore I can dispute and 100% nail your stats to a wall over accuracy on this occasion.

It's an easy error to make Snowball but its exactly why you shouldn't lord your stats and beat people with them, if this is wrong how many others?

[Wimb]

You're clearly getting angry again Snowball, because the accusations have started. There's nothing 'deliberately selective' about it - any more than going back to the start of last season, the start of a season being a reasonable place to do so, I would have thought, and so as not to be accused of focusing purely on Long's abysmal form this season.

You keep moving the goalposts and you are making yourself look very silly. If you could get down off your pedestal for a minute you'd see how many different posters disagree with the ways in which you present your data or the arguments you derive from them. Consider for a second that we're not all just stupid little, ignorant people and that we might have a point.

You are refusing to answer my claim - that your post that Long's terrible run this season is a 'temporary change' in scoring pattern is complete and utter bullshit. The stats show otherwise. He has had one purple patch. Outside of that he has utterly failed to score consistently over a period of time in open play.

'greed 100%

I can't be bothered to dig it out Snowball but I'd suspect very strongly that if you took out the 3 in 2 games at the backend of 08/09 and the 7 in 7 scored in Jan/Feb last year, that Long's goals from open play per minutes on the pitch looks fairly dreadfull. Not taking away those purple patches and he needed talent/ability to have them, but I believe the stats would show URZ to be correct.

Happy to be proved wrong.

[Snowball]

I can't be bothered to dig it out Snowball but I'd suspect very strongly that if you took out the 3 in 2 games at the backend of 08/09 and the 7 in 7 scored in Jan/Feb last year, that Long's goals from open play per minutes on the pitch looks fairly dreadfull. Not taking away those purple patches and he needed talent/ability to have them, but I believe the stats would show URZ to be correct.

Happy to be proved wrong.

But that's a totally silly argument. Do you not agree that a REASONABLE argument is to look at complete seasons?

We could have a player who plays brilliantly on good summer pitches, gets 12 goals and that can't score come December. He still gets his 12 a season.

Or we could have a player like Long, who, for whatever reason, starts every season slowly and is better come December/January.
He has still got his 9 goals in both the last seasons and has played nothing like a full complement of games.

We could slice and dice any player's form unfairly. What about the season that DOYLE failed? He went 27 consecutive games without scoring a goal. We can add the few goal he DID get (by looking at the complete season) and, though, overall that was a poor season, the goals he got improved his overall stats

or look at THIS bad run, the relegation season, 20 games without scoring before a pointless last game goal.

15-12-2007 English Premier Birmingham 1-1 Reading 0
22-12-2007 English Premier Reading 2-1 Sunderland 0
26-12-2007 English Premier West Ham 1-1 Reading 0
29-12-2007 English Premier Tottenham 6-4 Reading 0
01-01-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Portsmouth 0
12-01-2008 English Premier Aston Villa 3-1 Reading 0
19-01-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Man Utd 0
30-01-2008 English Premier Chelsea 1-0 Reading 0
02-02-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Bolton 0
06-02-2008 International Ireland 0-1 Brazil 0
09-02-2008 English Premier Everton 1-0 Reading 0
24-02-2008 English Premier Reading 1-2 Aston Villa 0
01-03-2008 English Premier Middlesbro 0-1 Reading 0
08-03-2008 English Premier Reading 2-0 Man City 0
15-03-2008 English Premier Liverpool 2-1 Reading 0
22-03-2008 English Premier Reading 2-1 Birmingham 0
29-03-2008 English Premier Reading 0-0 Blackburn 0
05-04-2008 English Premier Newcastle 3-0 Reading 0
12-04-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Fulham 0
26-04-2008 English Premier Wigan 0-0 Reading 0
03-05-2008 English Premier Reading 0-1 Tottenham 0
11-05-2008 English Premier Derby 0-4 Reading 1

[Schards#2]

Odd that other managers are happy to pay £5m+ for the likes of Kitson and Doyle yet no one is keen to offer a brass farthing for Long.

Don't these managers with a lifetime of expirience in the professional game understand stats?

[Snowball]

O r this run for Doyle

17-01-2009 Football League Championship Swansea 2-0 Reading 0
27-01-2009 Football League Championship Reading 1-0 Wolves 0
31-01-2009 Football League Championship QPR 0-0 Reading 0
07-02-2009 Football League Championship Reading 0-0 Preston 0
11-02-2009 World Cup Ireland 2-1 Georgia 0
21-02-2009 Football League Championship Reading 0-2 Bristol C 0
28-02-2009 Football League Championship Reading 0-1 Nottm Forest 0
03-03-2009 Football League Championship Sheff Wed 1-2 Reading 1 <<<<<<<<<
07-03-2009 Football League Championship Plymouth 2-2 Reading 0
10-03-2009 Football League Championship Reading 2-2 Charlton 0
14-03-2009 Football League Championship Reading 0-1 Ipswich 0
17-03-2009 Football League Championship Doncaster 0-1 Reading 0
21-03-2009 Football League Championship C Palace 0-0 Reading 0
28-03-2009 World Cup Ireland 1-1 Bulgaria 0
01-04-2009 World Cup Italy 1-1 Ireland 0
10-04-2009 Football League Championship Reading 0-1 Sheff Utd 0
03-05-2009 Football League Championship Reading 1-2 Birmingham 0
09-05-2009 Championship Play-Off Burnley 1-0 Reading 0

1 goal in 17 games, and this is a LEGEND, a great player, a great servant to the club, a man sold for 6.5 MILLION.

To select games as you or cmonurz is doing is quite simply unfair. Pick a complete season or two complete seasons or a career

LONG

2010-11 3 Goals in 14 projected to 9 or 10 in the season
2009-10 9 goals in 26.00
2008-09 9 goals in 19.33


LONG Career 93.83 games 32 goals, better than 1 in 3

[Wycombe Royal]

LONG

2010-11 3 Goals in 14 projected to 9 or 10 in the season
2009-10 9 goals in 26.00
2008-09 9 goals in 19.33


LONG Career 93.83 games 32 goals, better than 1 in 3

Doyle has played in 5 full seasons of English football. In three of those he scored 19, 18 and 15 goals.

Pleaqse don't try and compare him to Long, who hasn't reached double figures once yet.

[Snowball]

Odd that other managers are happy to pay £5m+ for the likes of Kitson and Doyle yet no one is keen to offer a brass farthing for Long.

Don't these managers with a lifetime of experience in the professional game understand stats?

You don't actually KNOW that, do you?



How many times has Long had his contract extended?

Who, after his latest extension, is probably on the highest wages at RFC?

Which current RFC player has scored the most goals against Premiership opposition?

Who won us the game away to Liverpool last season?

Who put us 2-0 up at half-time versus Villa last season?

[Wycombe Royal]

Which current RFC player has scored the most goals against Premiership opposition?

Which other striker in our squad played for RFC in the Premiership?

Some of your statements are laughable.

[Snowball]

I can't be bothered to dig it out Snowball but I'd suspect very strongly that if you took out the 3 in 2 games at the backend of 08/09 and the 7 in 7 scored in Jan/Feb last year, that Long's goals from open play per minutes on the pitch looks fairly dreadfull. Not taking away those purple patches and he needed talent/ability to have them, but I believe the stats would show URZ to be correct.

I can't be bothered to dig them out, Wimb, but if you remove the ...

or remove this 4 goals in 4 games, a 4-week spell, Doyle managed 2 goals in the rest of the season!

01 12-08-2007 English Premier Man Utd 0-0 Reading 0
02 15-08-2007 English Premier Reading 1-2 Chelsea 0
03 18-08-2007 English Premier Reading 1-0 Everton 0
04 25-08-2007 English Premier Bolton 3-0 Reading 0
06 05 01-09-2007 English Premier Reading 0-3 West Ham 0
07 22-09-2007 English Premier Reading 2-1 Wigan 0
08 29-09-2007 English Premier Portsmouth 7-4 Reading 0

07-10-2007 English Premier Reading 1-0 Derby 1
20-10-2007 English Premier Blackburn 4-2 Reading 2
27-10-2007 English Premier Reading 2-1 Newcastle 0
03-11-2007 English Premier Fulham 3-1 Reading 1

09 12-11-2007 English Premier Reading 1-3 Arsenal 0
10 24-11-2007 English Premier Man City 2-1 Reading 0
11 01-12-2007 English Premier Reading 1-1 Middlesbro 0
12 08-12-2007 English Premier Reading 3-1 Liverpool 1 GOAL
13 15-12-2007 English Premier Birmingham 1-1 Reading 0
14 22-12-2007 English Premier Reading 2-1 Sunderland 0
15 26-12-2007 English Premier West Ham 1-1 Reading 0
16 29-12-2007 English Premier Tottenham 6-4 Reading 0
17 01-01-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Portsmouth 0
18 12-01-2008 English Premier Aston Villa 3-1 Reading 0
19 19-01-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Man Utd 0
20 30-01-2008 English Premier Chelsea 1-0 Reading 0
21 02-02-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Bolton 0
22 09-02-2008 English Premier Everton 1-0 Reading 0
23 24-02-2008 English Premier Reading 1-2 Aston Villa 0
24 01-03-2008 English Premier Middlesbro 0-1 Reading 0
25 08-03-2008 English Premier Reading 2-0 Man City 0
26 15-03-2008 English Premier Liverpool 2-1 Reading 0
27 22-03-2008 English Premier Reading 2-1 Birmingham 0
28 29-03-2008 English Premier Reading 0-0 Blackburn 0
05-04-2008 English Premier Newcastle 3-0 Reading 0
29 12-04-2008 English Premier Reading 0-2 Fulham 0
30 26-04-2008 English Premier Wigan 0-0 Reading 0
31 03-05-2008 English Premier Reading 0-1 Tottenham 0
32 11-05-2008 English Premier Derby 0-4 Reading 1 GOAL

Maybe if we add in Doyle's international that season it would help,
after all he got 2 goals in 7 starts. What does that make it, 4 goals in 36 Starts?

But then I'm not allowed to add Shane's goals for Ireland...

08-09-2007 European Championships Slovakia 2-2 Ireland 1
12-09-2007 European Championships Czech Rep 1-0 Ireland 0
13-10-2007 European Championships Ireland 0-0 Germany 0
17-10-2007 European Championships Ireland 1-1 Cyprus 0
17-11-2007 European Championships Wales 2-2 Ireland 1
06-02-2008 International Ireland 0-1 Brazil 0
24-05-2008 International Ireland 1-1 Serbia 0

[Hoop Blah]

The comparison with Doyle's awful run of not scoring doesn't really help things does it? Does one players poor form justify anothers?

Doyle was, in my opinion, being flogged by Coppell at the time because we didn't have adequate cover for him. He looked so jaded and off form and was crying out for a rest it wasn't a surprise he wasn't scoring. I think he may have been struggling with an injury at the time too but we needed to play him because nothing else was working (should've given Cox a game!).

More to the point the whole team was struggling to create or score chances at that time weren't they? That's what cost us promotion, so it wasn't just Doyle being a bit crap that caused that barren spell.

Doyle was of course criticised for that lack of goals too, as is Long now. It's part of the territory unfortunately, but at least Doyle had true quality and a history of being able to perform consistently behind. Long has none of that really.

[Snowball]

Which current RFC player has scored the most goals against Premiership opposition?

Which other striker in our squad played for RFC in the Premiership?

Some of your statements are laughable.

But that is EXACTLY my point. Long has Premiership experience and has shown the ability to score against Premiership opposition.

2 Goals v Liverpool. He has scored at Anfield twice, and won a penalty there
2 Goals v Villa
1 Goals v Burnley
1 Goals v Wigan
1 Goals v Portsmouth
1 Goals v Man City

A full 25% of Long's goals have been against premiership Opponents. Church has 1, Gylfi had 1 plus a penalty (won by Long)

[Wycombe Royal]

Which current RFC player has scored the most goals against Premiership opposition?

Which other striker in our squad played for RFC in the Premiership?

Some of your statements are laughable.

But that is EXACTLY my point. Long has Premiership experience and has shown the ability to score against Premiership opposition.

2 Goals v Liverpool. He has scored at Anfield twice, and won a penalty there
2 Goals v Villa
1 Goals v Burnley
1 Goals v Wigan
1 Goals v Portsmouth
1 Goals v Man City

A full 25% of Long's goals have been against premiership Opponents. Church has 1, Gylfi had 1 plus a penalty (won by Long)

I don't care how many he has scored against Premiership opposition we aren't in the Premiership. The simple fact is he is struggling this season, and this season is all that matters. One great goal against QPR does not change that, he needs to score regularly over the next FEW matches.

[Wimb]

You should seriously look back at your posts and see what you did. You repeat this trick time and again.

1. Snowball posts stats and make argument
2. Poster argues against those stats
3. Snowball posts different stats to prove a different point.

URZ point was in regard to Long's goals all coming in a short space of time, I simply agreed with that point and asked you if the stats reflected it. I didn't ask you whether that made Long a good/bad player and I certainly wasn't asking for a comparison with Kevin Doyle so I'll ask again, do the stats support the point that Long tends to score in short bunches and then has a large fallow period?

As Shards says if you're trying to compare Long with Doyle then you're a fool. Dave Nugent has a better scoring record for England then Alan Shearer but who is the better player. The stats would say Nugent... but you know full well it's Shearer who was by far the better player. As WR also said, Doyle has scored double figures 3 times, Long has scored at most 9 in a season. Until Shane Long goes out and scores 18 goals, or gets a nomination BY HIS PEERS for PFA young player of the year, dislodges Doyle in the international side, or gets bought for £6 million then anyone with a brain can tell you Doyle is BY FAR the better player.

Long has scored more against Premier League opposition then Gylfi and Church... well no sh*t sherlock that's probably helped by the fact he was at the club when we played in the Premier League. What are you hoping to prove with that stat?

I'll repeat it again for emphasis as all you've done in the last 2 pages is prove it.

You should seriously look back at your posts and see what you did. You repeat this trick time and again.

1. Snowball posts stats and make argument
2. Poster argues against those stats
3. Snowball posts different stats to prove a different point.