Long - Time to go.

[brendywendy]

yet again the color of your specs determines what you see, rather than actual events

[RobRoyal]

Agreed Leon,Church generally manages to find the keeper and Shane generally misses the target.
As we were saying around us how many goals would Cureton or Quinn score in this side?
They wouldn't be far off Bothroyd and Chopra and we would be much nearer the top spot.
Come on Brian there really has to be a proper strong central striker out there within our budget.

This is why I like stats.

Their accuracy record (does the shot hit the target) over the last two season is IDENTICAL

11 09 2010-11 Church
30 29 2009-10 Church
41 38 0.536231884% On Target

13 12 2010-11 Long
24 20 2009-10 Long

37 32 0.536231884% On Target

Maths fail.

[Snowball]

Maths Fail, sorta.

I copied a value instead of a formula

In fact SHane is more often on target


11 09 Church
30 33 Church
41 42 49% of Church shots hit target (hit woodwork counts as a miss)

13 12 Long
24 20 Long

37 32 53% of Long's shots hit target

[Hoop Blah]

The Long haters are blinded by their hatred it seems. He was excellent last night BUT we can all see that he is not a natural goal scorer. As someone else said we should not replace him but we either need a goalscorer to partner him or we need Church or Hunt to step up as the clinical finisher.

As for blaming Long for not rushing to get onside that really is unfair. The guy covers as much ground as I have ever seen a player cover in a game. He often goes all the way back to defend corners etc and covers just about every blade of grass. Sometimes he needs to jog back to get some energy back. If he did not need to do this he would be a physical phenomenon.

alot of it is silly criticism.
if he chases back to the keeper, who hoofs it up pitch, and a reading player gets on the end of it to head it back, hell be offside whatever happens, unless of course the header is clever and doesnt try to head it onto long who is obviously offside

Guys, I don't expect him to be able to cover every blade of grass and magically get back into position at every opportunity, but you watch him next time and see how many times he just huffs and puffs and ambles back instead of keeping up with the defender he's just chased down who's stepping up with the rest of his team mates. It's not just where he's done the extra 10 yards to make the keeper pick it up.

He just doesn't put enough in to make it back for me.

As for going back to defend corners andrew....that's his job! He's not doing that because he's a good old boy who wants to help out a bit. He's one of our better headers of the ball and so is assigned a role in defending set pieces.

For someone who's greatest strength, we're told, is his work rate and the hard work he puts in, I think it's lacking on too many occassions.

[Snowball]

Long works very hard, has never been lazy.

Hoop just wants to keep hating.

[Hoop Blah]

Don't be a tool brendy, you're starting to sound more like snowball with that kind of defensive reaction.

I'm not saying his good work was only down to Church, I'm saying that he benfitted from him being there as the flicks and knocks downs he's pretty good at had someone making good runs to make the most of them.

Church missing a chance doesn't have any impact on the quality of Long's performance either. Two wrongs don't make a right and, for what it's worth, I think you have to expect Church to miss chances because he does it all the time. Church didn't do the same kind of work as Long and that's totally expected because he was playing a different role.

Could Church have played better? Yes, I probably could. Does that excuse Long his laziness and lack of quality at times? No.

out of the two replies i know which seems more defensive to me.
and its my opinion, just like yours.


i just thought he played well again last night, with just the one glaring miss,

just cannot agree with the laziness stuff. yes sometimes he busts a gut chasing a lost cause, and then struggles to get back onside, but i think thats just him being knackered.

yes lacking in quality, but just dont see the rest myself.
you see it different. well done.

ill resist calling you a tool though you big gay.

The reason that one was a tad defensive was because you completely misrepersented my initial point about Church making more of Longs good work. It's not what I said.

All I can say is watch Long closely for a bit and see how many times he's ambling back or making an 80% effort to close a defender.

He takes a lot of stick up there on his own, and as I've said before, wins a hell of a lot in the air and does a lot of good things. I just think (and I'm happy to be in a minority and agree to disagree with most on this) that his workrate isn't all it's cracked up to be a lot of the time*.

*It's better than a lot of forwards we've had over the years, but they usually balance that out by getting the ball in the back of the net more often.

[brendywendy]

if only that last bit wasnt true! and this argument would disappear.

up to shanus o'shlong to make that happen.


i hereby take back any defensive tome i may have put across

[Big Foot]

I'm not calling for him to be sold, however you've got to question the professionalism of a striker who "won't put the effort in because he's disheartened with the team clinging to a 1-0 lead"

But I DIDN'T SAY that.

I gave a number of POSSIBILITIES, one or more of which MIGHT HAVE applied.

You can add to that, the fact that he had run himself into the ground, perhaps,
that he could still feel his battering at QPR, perhaps, that his wrist injury was
feeling more and more painful (perhaps), or that perhaps he had had a kick
or a minor pull.

Then, as a professional - he should've been honest and said to the gaffer he wasnt' feeling 100%

[Snowball]

Then, as a professional - he should've been honest and said to the gaffer he wasnt' feeling 100%

And as a top professional he might have thought, even at 90% I'm better than HRK leading the line

[Big Foot]

Then, as a professional - he should've been honest and said to the gaffer he wasnt' feeling 100%

And as a top professional he might have thought, even at 90% I'm better than HRK leading the line

He's not paid to make that decision

[rabidbee]

Managers generally say they prefer pros who are desperate to play even when not fit than those who look to shirk at any opportunity, He's only responding to the prevalent culture _if_ any of the above is actually the case.

Of course, no one on here doesn't know he didn't say to McD that he wasn't feeling 100%, yet McD decided to play him over any other option.

If a player continues to get picked even if you think he isn't fit enough, or skilled enough, or committed enough, criticise the manager, not the player.

[Snowball]

Then, as a professional - he should've been honest and said to the gaffer he wasnt' feeling 100%

And as a top professional he might have thought, even at 90% I'm better than HRK leading the line

He's not paid to make that decision

2-3 posts ago you said he was supposed to (as a professional) decide he should come off!!!

[Maguire]

Has he gone yet?

[Big Foot]

And as a top professional he might have thought, even at 90% I'm better than HRK leading the line

He's not paid to make that decision

2-3 posts ago you said he was supposed to (as a professional) decide he should come off!!!

Show me where I've said that

[Snowball]

2-3 posts ago you said he was supposed to (as a professional) decide he should come off!!!

Show me where I've said that

You can add to that, the fact that he had run himself into the ground, perhaps,
that he could still feel his battering at QPR, perhaps, that his wrist injury was
feeling more and more painful (perhaps), or that perhaps he had had a kick
or a minor pull.

Then, as a professional - he should've been honest and said to the gaffer he wasnt' feeling 100%

[Big Foot]

2-3 posts ago you said he was supposed to (as a professional) decide he should come off!!!

Show me where I've said that

You can add to that, the fact that he had run himself into the ground, perhaps,
that he could still feel his battering at QPR, perhaps, that his wrist injury was
feeling more and more painful (perhaps), or that perhaps he had had a kick
or a minor pull.

Then, as a professional - he should've been honest and said to the gaffer he wasnt' feeling 100%

Perhaps you don't understand words, would certainly explain your reliance on stats to rival Phil Mitchell's reliance on hardcore drugs in EastEnders...

Where did I say this would be during the game?
Where did I say Shane Long should tell the gaffer to sub him?

[Snowball]

You didn't Big Foot.

You are a paragon of virtue. A wonderful human being.

[Big Foot]

Have you got the stats to back that up?

[Snowball]

Have you got the stats to back that up?

No, I used a Private Detective

[Big Foot]

Maybe you should hire your Private Detective to tell you that Shane Long isn't very good at scoring goals