Long - Time to go.

[Wycombe Royal]

But show me 5 current championship strikers who have records better than a goal every 223 minutes.

But here is some quick guesswork (and you will notice that most of these have sustained high scoring rates over more matches than Shane):

Michael Chopra
Rob Earnshaw
Jason Scotland
Dave Kitson
Matty Fryatt
Steve Morison
Kris Boyd
Nicky Maynard

...and those are just off the top of my head.

Now toddle off and collate their career minutes played (we have to be fair and use the same level of detail that has been used for Long) and see what their goals per minute scoring rate is. I WANT you to prove me wrong.

[Wycombe Royal]

He actually started 9 times in the Prem that first season, which I find incredible, against Doyle-Lita (Kitson)

Not really when you consider we had some injury problems. But don't let that get in the way of a good argument.

[Wimb]

URZ is right and the fact was if Long was going to score those goals in the Premier League days then he would have A) been picked when we couldn't score for toffee and B) would no longer be at this club as his ability to score goals in the top flight would have been spotted and he would have been bought up by at least a WBA, Blackpool etc.

You're being disingenuous.

When Long arrived he was 18 and very green, and "one for the future" getting very short sub appearances and learning his trade in the cups when we put our second-teams.

At the start of our first season in the Premiership, Long was 19+ and had played a handful of games.
He had shown promise but Kitson, Doyle, Lita were "seasoned pros" all ahead of him, vastly more experienced

against that, this green kid, now aged 19 and a half, had FIVE starts and 10 sub appearances (4 Goals)
Oh and a single appearance EVER, for Cork, don't forget that.

157 Senior Appearances 40 Goals + 46 RFC Goals - Kitson
137 Senior Appearances 25 Goals + 19 RFC Goals - Doyle
117 Senior Appearances 31 Goals + 15 RFC Goals - Lita
016 Senior Appearances 00 Goals + 04 RFC Goals - Long

The idea that Long is going to actually COMPETE with those three is frankly ludicrous.

The fact that he got starts is testimony to his promise.

After a full season in the Premiership the numbers were:

174 Senior Appearances 40 Goals + 50 RFC Goals - Kitson
171 Senior Appearances 25 Goals + 32 RFC Goals - Doyle
155 Senior Appearances 31 Goals + 29 RFC Goals - Lita
040 Senior Appearances 00 Goals + 08 RFC Goals - Long ---- He actually started 9 times in the Prem that first season, which I find incredible, against Doyle-Lita (Kitson)

Look what happens when you compare seasoned pro Kitson versus the kid Long in that second Prem season

9 (04) Premiership games for 2 Premiership Goals 3 (1) Cup Games for 2 Cup Goals KITSON
9 (12) Premiership games for 2 Premiership Goals 3 (0) Cup Games for 2 Cup Goals LONG

Then that defeats your argument Snowball because if the stats were a true indicator of his form then Coppell would have seen his scoring rate and picked him because he would have scored more goals.

Oh and those stats from the 'second Prem season' are utter bollocks, go back and check them please and you'll find Kitson scored 10 goals in the Premier League for us in 2007/2008.

Kitson did indeed score just twice in the Premier League in 2006/2007 but you might remember a very serious knee injury in the game against 'Boro that kept him out for half a season and he was never fully fit after that.

[Snowball]

As that is worked out on a minutes per goal basis I don't have, and neither do you have, the career minutes per goals of every Championship striker.

But I DO. Anybody can look at any striker over the last 9 years, if they are patient enough.

But again it is irrelevant and I can tell you now a consistent goalscorer scores his goals, for the majority of the time, on a consistent basis and not in short bursts. Now I know we have gone here before and I know you will cite Doyle again but the evidence is plain for all to see that Long scores his goals generally in short bursts.

Doyle was NOT consistently scoring

You people just refuse to see bare, absolute facts. 2008-09, top-scorer gets sold for 6.5 Million

BLANK Nottm Forest 0-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 2-0 Plymouth 0
BLANK Norway 1-1 Ireland 0
BLANK Charlton 4-2 Reading 0
Reading 4-2 C Palace 3 (Four Blanks, then a hat-trick. I'd call that purple, wouldn't you?)
BLANK Montenegro 0-0 Ireland 0
BLANK Ipswich 2-0 Reading 0
Reading 6-0 Sheff Wed 3 (Two more blanks and then another hat-trick. Is this evenly spreading out the goals?)
BLANK Watford 2-2 Reading 0
Reading 4-0 Swansea 2 (another blank, and then two goals. An impressive 8 goals - top scorer - but compressed into 3 games)
BLANK Wolves 0-3 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 3-1 Burnley 0
BLANK Preston 2-1 Reading 0
Reading 2-1 Doncaster 1 (Three blanks, now a goal to keep the numbers up...)
BLANK Reading 0-0 QPR 0
BLANK Burnley 1-0 Reading 0
Bristol C 1-4 Reading 2 (two more blanks but now two games with a brace each game)
Reading 3-0 Derby 2
Sheff Utd 0-2 Reading 1

19 Games 14 Goals, sounds impressive because it is, but that's 12 blanks in there, and now it gets much worse

BLANK Ireland 2-3 Poland 0
BLANK Reading 1-2 Southampton 0
Cardiff 2-2 Reading 1
BLANK Reading 3-1 Coventry 0
BLANK Barnsley 0-1 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 1-0 Blackpool 0
BLANK Reading 2-0 Norwich 0
Birmingham 1-3 Reading 1
BLANK Reading 1-1 Cardiff 0
BLANK Southampton 1-1 Reading 0
Reading 4-0 Watford 1
BLANK Swansea 2-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 1-0 Wolves 0
BLANK QPR 0-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 0-0 Preston 0
BLANK Ireland 2-1 Georgia 0
BLANK Reading 0-2 Bristol C 0
BLANK Reading 0-1 Nottm Forest 0
Sheff Wed 1-2 Reading 1
BLANK Plymouth 2-2 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 2-2 Charlton 0
BLANK Reading 0-1 Ipswich 0
BLANK Doncaster 0-1 Reading 0
BLANK C Palace 0-0 Reading 0
BLANK Ireland 1-1 Bulgaria 0
BLANK Italy 1-1 Ireland 0
BLANK Reading 0-1 Sheff Utd 0
BLANK Reading 1-2 Birmingham 0
BLANK Burnley 1-0 Reading 0

That little run is THREE goals in TWENTY-NINE games, but all you people want to see is his season's total. In fact Doyle's goals were mostly compressed into a very short spell

14 of his season's 18 Goals were compressed into a 15 game run.

But that's OK cos it's Kevin Doyle

[Snowball]

BLANK Man Utd 0-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 1-2 Chelsea 0
BLANK Reading 1-0 Everton 0
BLANK Bolton 3-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 0-3 West Ham 0

Slovakia 2-2 Ireland 1
BLANK Czech Rep 1-0 Ireland 0

BLANK Reading 2-1 Wigan 0
BLANK Portsmouth 7-4 Reading 0
Reading 1-0 Derby 1

BLANK Ireland 0-0 Germany 0
BLANK Ireland 1-1 Cyprus 0

Blackburn 4-2 Reading 2
BLANK Reading 2-1 Newcastle 0
Fulham 3-1 Reading 1
BLANK Reading 1-3 Arsenal 0

NOTE 6 GOALS IN THE WHOLE SEASON, THREE OF THEM IN A THREE-GAME BURST

Wales 2-2 Ireland 1

BLANK Man City 2-1 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 1-1 Middlesbro 0
Reading 3-1 Liverpool 1

4TH OF SIX GOALS 67% OF A SEASON'S GOALS IN A SIX GAME BURST

BLANK Birmingham 1-1 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 2-1 Sunderland 0
BLANK West Ham 1-1 Reading 0
BLANK Tottenham 6-4 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 0-2 Portsmouth 0
BLANK Aston Villa 3-1 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 0-2 Man Utd 0
BLANK Chelsea 1-0 Reading 0
BLANK Premier Reading 0-2 Bolton 0

BLANK Ireland 0-1 Brazil 0

BLANK Everton 1-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 1-2 Aston Villa 0
BLANK Middlesbro 0-1 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 2-0 Man City 0
BLANK Liverpool 2-1 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 2-1 Birmingham 0
BLANK Reading 0-0 Blackburn 0
BLANK Newcastle 3-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 0-2 Fulham 0
BLANK Wigan 0-0 Reading 0
BLANK Reading 0-1 Tottenham 0

TWENTY CONSECUTIVE BLANK GAMES

Derby 0-4 Reading 1

LAST GAME OF THE SEASON. TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE

BLANK Ireland 1-1 Serbia 0

[Hoop Blah]

As I've said before, Doyles last season with us, and his scoring patterns was severly effected by our lack of ability to score (as a team) and our over reliance on him due to lack of options in the squad.

I'm convinced he was over played and flogged relentlessly by Coppell because we didn't have enough in the squad to leave him out at times.

That doesn't change the fact he went a long time without scoring consistently, but it does put it in context of a team that couldn't buy a goal for half a season.

[cmonurz]

As that is worked out on a minutes per goal basis I don't have, and neither do you have, the career minutes per goals of every Championship striker.

But I DO.

Let's see them then. Where doe Long's record fit amongst the others?

[Ian Royal]

The difference is Doyle has had long periods of drought, but he has scored consistently in the past and managed sustained periods of goalscoring.

Long has long periods of drought with extremely short bursts of goalscoring. He has never sustained a decent scoring rate. You can argue that is because he didn't get played consistently as a starter for most of his career here. But now he is and he still isn't scoring consistently. This season's figures are being massively inflated by penalties. And of course there is the point that there is a bloody good reason he wasn't played regularly. He simply wasn't good enough.

He's a better player now, but he's still only starting regularly because he's one of only three real senior strikers we have. One of which is only just recovered from about a year out injured. He's making himself hard to drop because of his grunt work, nothing more.

[Snowball]

[


Oh and those stats from the 'second Prem season' are utter bollocks, go back and check them please and you'll find Kitson scored 10 goals in the Premier League for us in 2007/2008.

.

I switched the years round is all. The stats are the same

2006-07 2 2 4 9 (04) 3 (1) Kitson
2006-07 2 2 4 9 (12) 3 (0) Long

Kitson DID start 9 Premiership games and score 2 Premiership goals, so did Long.

But obviously, you'll excuse Kitson, because he's a God. Obviously it "must have been" his injury.

OTOH you could just say the raw, green 19 year old did incredibly well when compared with a seasoned Pro aged precisely 7 years and a day older than him

[Ian Royal]

snowball. You'd really help yourself if you could actually consistently get your facts right.

The fact that you can't (and it's not always a case of a simple data entry error like this) combined with your total reliance on statistics that will never give a full picture, inability to ever conceed ground, childish rudeness and constant switching of goalposts makes you an absolute joke of a poster.

[Snowball]

As I've said before, Doyles last season with us, and his scoring patterns was severly effected by our lack of ability to score (as a team) and our over reliance on him due to lack of options in the squad. I'm convinced he was over played and flogged relentlessly by Coppell because we didn't have enough in the squad to leave him out at times.
That doesn't change the fact he went a long time without scoring consistently, but it does put it in context of a team that couldn't buy a goal for half a season.

He had horrendously long blank spells in 2007-8 AND 2008-9 AND he's currently on 11 games no goals for Wolves

That's three spells. I wonder what the other years are like?

Don't you see how you folks have excuses for Doyle: over-worked, the team's fault, unlucky, Wolves are crap, and excuses for Kitson "he was injured"

but then Shane is just shit, even when his stats match those players?


I suspect that MOST strikers accrue their totals through purple patches and dry spells
and the guy who scores 1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0 etc will be incredibly rare.

[Snowball]

snowball. You'd really help yourself if you could actually consistently get your facts right.

The fact that you can't (and it's not always a case of a simple data entry error like this) combined with your total reliance on statistics that will never give a full picture, inability to ever conceed ground, childish rudeness and constant switching of goalposts makes you an absolute joke of a poster.

Bog Off, Ian.

I copied the date wrong. Woswer. The actual games and goals stats were spot on

[Ian Royal]

Kitson being seriously injured for six months and therefore not playing isn't a valid reason for him not scoring?

That's genuinely the funniest thing I've read on here in ages.

[cmonurz]

Well, it's second to St Pauli saying we should pay our national debt interest with additional government borrowings.

[Wimb]

[


Oh and those stats from the 'second Prem season' are utter bollocks, go back and check them please and you'll find Kitson scored 10 goals in the Premier League for us in 2007/2008.

.

I switched the years round is all. The stats are the same

2006-07 2 2 4 9 (04) 3 (1) Kitson
2006-07 2 2 4 9 (12) 3 (0) Long

Kitson DID start 9 Premiership games and score 2 Premiership goals, so did Long.

But obviously, you'll excuse Kitson, because he's a God. Obviously it "must have been" his injury.

OTOH you could just say the raw, green 19 year old did incredibly well when compared with a seasoned Pro aged precisely 7 years and a day older than him

Didn't say Long didn't do himself a service by scoring a couple of goals despite his inexperience, but even Danny Cadamarteri scored a few in the Premier League when he was a kid Snowball... maybe he was before your time, look him up.

I'll excuse Kitson because his form for the 3 seasons before proved he was a consistant goalscorer and it was plain to see his injury was affecting him, there's obviously no stat that can prove it, only what I saw with my eyes.

[Snowball]

Kitson did indeed score just twice in the Premier League in 2006/2007 but you might remember a very serious knee injury in the game against 'Boro that kept him out for half a season and he was never fully fit after that.

So he was played while UNFIT. Is that what you are saying?

Or is that yet another excuse.

I hear excuses for these players all the time.


Kitson failed that season because he never got right after his injury
He got only ten goals the following season "because we were a poor side"
He failed TOTALLY at Stoke because "He didn't fit their system and the manager didn't like him"
He's barely average now at Portsmouth "because they are in disarray and have no money."


Doyle is failing at Wolves this season "because they are too reliant on him"
Doyle only got 8 goals last year. What excuse should we use?
He had horrendous barren spells in 2008-09 despite scoring 18 in the season. Whose fault?
He didn't fail in 2007-8, it was Coppell's fault for over-working him.


Do ANY of your heroes just play badly now and again?


The fact is Long's so-called barren spells are nothing like as bad as these guys. You lot are screaming because he only has four goals in 16 games. Did you bleat when Doyle had had TWO in 19? He got the third in the last day of the season, against Derby. Too Late.

Doyle is singled out, unfairly compared. You overlook the bad times of other players. Jeez Lita had to got TWO seasons scoring just one goal each season before anybody would even CONSIDER the idea that maybe he wasn't right for us. They still remember the hype when he arrived, the 2005-6 freak season and then 7+7 in the first season in the Prem... But over time, what then?

[Sarah Star]

Kitson did indeed score just twice in the Premier League in 2006/2007 but you might remember a very serious knee injury in the game against 'Boro that kept him out for half a season and he was never fully fit after that.

I was told Kebe has a knee injury

[cmonurz]

Can you give us that list of Championship strikers scoring rates please.

[cmonurz]

Did you bleat when Doyle had had TWO in 19?

Yes, actually. Sure, he had some fans (like Long does now), but Coppell was getting vilified by some as Doyle was seemingly undroppable.

[Snowball]

:lol: Kitson being seriously injured for six months and therefore not playing isn't a valid reason for him not scoring?

That's genuinely the funniest thing I've read on here in ages.

No, moron, but IN THE GAMES HE PLAYED, HE CLOSELY MATCHES LONG


2006-07 2 2 4 9 (04) 3 (1) Kitson
2006-07 2 2 4 9 (12) 3 (0) Long

Kitson DID start 9 Premiership games and score 2 Premiership goals, so did Long.



ONE WAS OUT BECAUSE HE HAD AN INJURY, THE OTHER BECAUSE HE WAS THIRD/FOURTH CHOICE AND ONLY 19

But their PLAYING TIMES are almost identical, as are their goals