Long - Time to go.

[Wycombe Royal]

Just out of interest which WAY is Shane's career minutes per goal moving this season - has it gone up or down compared to the end of last season?

Are you seriously suggesting that a 18+1 game run (5 goals) is definitive?

2 goals in the next 2 games would be back to 1 in 3 (21/7)


Doyle, BTW, has now gone 11 Premiership games without scoring. Does that mean he's "finished"?

No I am not saying that, and you will notice that I asked what effect this season is having on his CAREER minutes per goal.

And I am only using league goals (what is Shane's LEAGUE goals per minute) as they are the only fair ones to include. No weakened cup teams, no matches against higher league opposition, no meaningless international friendlies, etc........

[Wycombe Royal]

Taking subs appearances as 45 minutes (so I'm giving Shane some help):

Rob Earnshaw - 268 (97), 155 goals - 184 minutes per goal
Jason Scotland - 195 (57), 92 goals - 219 minutes per goal
Nicky Maynard - 126 (17), 63 goals - 192 minutes per goal
Luciano Becchio - 86 (12), 38 goals - 218 minutes per goal
Michael Chopra - 185 (44), 82 goals - 227 minutes per goal (but remember I am allowing 45 minutes for a sub appearance)
Dave Kitson - 256 (44), 106 goals - 236 minutes per goal
Matty Fryatt - 195 (51), 79 goals - 251 minutes per goal
Steve Morison - 190 (20), 96 goals - 188 minutes per goal
Kris Boyd - 237 (75) , 169 goals - 146 minutes per goal

I love how you have to dig out Premiership-quality players to even compete with this kid
who is still three years away from his prime

You aksed me to name CURRENT Championship players - ALL OF THESE CURRENTLY PLAY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. Stop moving the goalposts just because I have proved you worng AGAIN. You asked for five, I named a few more than that without even really trying.

[Wycombe Royal]

No, let's use Shane's ACTUAL, total minutes. That is totally fair. He is on 1 in 223


It's hardly my fault you're too lazy to work out these other guys' minutes

And like I said by using actual minutes there is only way which all the players minutes per goal is going if actual minutes were used - yes that's right down. Because they didn't average 45 minutes per sub appearance and they didn't play 90 minutes in every match.

Whichever way you look at it I have provided the names of MORE than FIVE CURRENT CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYERS WITH A BETTER MINUTES PER GOAL RATIO THAN LONG OVER A LONGER CAREER.

Stop trying to tell me I am wrong because you are only making yourself look like more of an idiot. Please accept defeat on this one.

[cmonurz]

Why are you so rude?

I made my point, and you, a professional writer, feels the need to term it 'utter bollox?'

It's not 'bollox' that you are bringing qualitative aspects into the judgement as to how we compare Kitson and Long. You have done that. And this is another example of you setting first the debate, and then the terms of that debate. Wholly unfair.

It's not 'bollox' to say that comparing two players from the point they reach the same age ignores many other (some measurable) aspects of a footballer's career. That is completely true - Kitson/Long is a good enough example, Hahnemann/Federici is an even better one.

I made no comment at all on Kitson's appearances prior to joining Reading, you are imagining that. I made a general point about the problem of using age as a marker, since players arrive at x years og age with different careers behind them.

Now see if you can respond to this and the next 1000 posts without being rude and offensive.

And ftr, a massive LOL at asking WR for 5 championship strikers, getting 8, and so then labelling them Premier League ability and so not relevant.

[Wycombe Royal]

And ftr, a massive LOL at asking WR for 5 championship strikers, getting 8, and so then labelling them Premier League ability and so not relevant.

It's all the more funny because Long has more Premiership experience than some of them.........

[Seal]

I love how you have to dig out Premiership-quality players to even compete with this kid
who is still three years away from his prime

This 'kid' is 23.

So is Lionel Messi.

Kevin Doyle was 22 when he fired us to Championship glory.

And since when was 26 officially determined as 'prime'?

Face it, he's just not very good.

[Ian Royal]

Just for the record Kitson has managed 38 appearances in one season scoring 19 goals. And that wasn't in our championship winning season.

That's 1 goal every two games he plays in over the course of an entire season. And in that season he never went longer than 5 appearances without scoring. What's more, the next season he scored 22 in 39 appearances never going longer than 4 games without scoring.

So irrespective of how he's done in the last few years, he has proven that he can be a phenominal striker at this level and has maintained a fantastic strike rate over two seasons.

Shane Long in his best seasons so far scored 4 goals (3 of which are pens) in 17 appearances and 9 goals in 36 appearances.

Kinda speaks for itself.

But the main point of this thread (for me) isn't comparing Long with other strikers. It's saying that his overall contribution* isn't good enough and he isn't the player we need.

*Work rate, creativity and goal scoring combined.

And Kitson did spend time out of football working Sainsbury, before he got his break back into the game.

[Hoop Blah]

Snowball, in what way are the following players 'Premiership Quality' players?

Rob Earnshaw
Jason Scotland
Nicky Maynard
Luciano Becchio
Michael Chopra
Dave Kitson
Matty Fryatt
Steve Morison
Kris Boyd

A few of them have tried and failed to play, score and stay in the top flight, the rest are playing at their highest level ever.

Long actually, according to you, is probably the one with the best Premiership goalscoring pedigree isn't he?

These are exactly the type of forward you need to succeed in this league and are the perfect type of player to compare our first choice forward with.

[Z175]

Kevin Doyle's league record this season is Played 12, scored 0, assists 2.
Wolves fans continue to praise his battling performances up front for his struggling team, and aren't getting on his back over goals.

I'm not saying Long is in Doyle's class, but one would normally expect Reading fans to back their players where Wolves fans don't.

Frankly I think he has played well this season, but had too few chances earlier in his 1 in 11 phase. He now has 3 in 5 and I'd back him to get another 10-12 goals this season for sure.

And penalties count, 'cos he won them all!

I'd rather watch Shane than splash out double the season ticket price to buy any of the championship strikers above!
How much in fees were Chopra, Boyd, Maynard, Scotland and Earnshaw?

[cmonurz]

If we'd rather have Shane than a proven goalscorer, what would be the point buying a season ticket anyway?

[Wycombe Royal]

I'd rather watch Shane than splash out double the season ticket price to buy any of the championship strikers above!
How much in fees were Chopra, Boyd, Maynard, Scotland and Earnshaw?

How much they cost is irrelevant. They were merely presented in answer to Snowball laying down a challenge to find five current Championship strikers with a scoring rate better than one goal evey 223 minutes. They were not listed as strikers we should be buying.

[Hoop Blah]

Kevin Doyle's league record this season is Played 12, scored 0, assists 2.
Wolves fans continue to praise his battling performances up front for his struggling team, and aren't getting on his back over goals.

I'm not saying Long is in Doyle's class, but one would normally expect Reading fans to back their players where Wolves fans don't.

I think that's because his contribution and quality is clear to see. With Long his main contribution this season is diving for penalties and winning plenty of headers.

Doyle looks like scoring whereas Long just looks like he's trying.

[Snowball]

All bar two of these players are MUCH older and more experienced than Shane

18-02-1979 Age 31 Years 09 Months 195 (57) = 092 goals - 219 minutes per goal Jason Scotland Bought by Premiership side Wigan
21-01-1980 Age 30 Years 11 Months 256 (44) = 106 goals - 236 minutes per goal Dave Kitson 5.5 MILLION
06-04-1981 Age 29 Years 07 Months 268 (97) = 155 goals - 184 minutes per goal Rob Earnshaw Four transfers totalling TWELVE Million
29-08-1983 Age 27 Years 03 Months 190 (20) = 096 goals - 188 minutes per goal Steve Morison His LEAGUE is 83 (29 Goals) Non-League counts, really?
18-08-1983 Age 27 Years 03 Months 237 (75) = 169 goals - 146 minutes per goal Kris Boyd (Goals in England please? Oh, 5 in 16 games)
23-12-1983 Age 26 Years 11 Months 185 (44) = 082 goals - 227 minutes per goal Michael Chopra Approx 9 MILLION in transfer fees
28-12-1983 Age 26 Years 11 Months 086 (12) = 038 goals - 218 minutes per goal Luciano Becchio ex Boca Juniors and Barcelona B!
05-03-1986 Age 24 Years 08 Months 195 (51) = 079 goals - 251 minutes per goal Matty Fryatt
11-12-1986 Age 23 Years 11 Months 126 (17) = 063 goals - 192 minutes per goal Nicky Maynard Transferred for 2.25 Million

16-03-1983 Age 27 Years 08 Months AVERAGE of the above Players
22-01-1987 Age 23 Years 10 Months SHANE LONG


In other words, Shane is almost 4 years, four seasons younger than the average of the above players

Shane is on 37 Goals (33 Domestic, 4 International) so has

3 Years 01 Months to score 05 goals 02 goals per season to catch Becchio (38)
7 Years 11 Months to score 49 goals 06 goals per season to catch Jason Scotland (92)
7 Years 01 Months to score 73 goals 10 goals per season to catch Dave Kitson
3 Years 05 Months to score 50 goals 14 goals per season to catch Steve Morisson
3 Years 01 Months to score 49 goals 16 goals per season to catch Chopra



Only Maynard (2.25 Million), Fryatt and Earnshaw (4 x 3 Million) really stand out.

[Hoop Blah]

Isn't this about goals per minute snowball?

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

No, it is minutes per goal.

The real answer is that many do not rate Long, despite how many goals he has banged in so far, the feeling is that he is not going to be prolific, said on another thread, stick him out wide, he can beat players.

[Snowball]

Interesting List.


So you select a load of big guns to portray Shane as badly as possible.

Ignore the fact that all are older than Shane and all bar two have played at least 3-4-5-6-7 seasons more

How are they all doing this season?

League Goals 2010-11

08 Luciano Becchio
06 Steve Morison
05 Goals Jason Scotland
05 Goals Kris Boyd
04 Goals Shane Long
04 Goals Dave Kitson
04 Goals Michael Chopra
01 Goals Rob Earnshaw
02 Goals Matty Fryatt
00 Nicky Maynard




Hmmmmmm...

[Snowball]

Most active topic:Long - Time to go.
(406 Posts / 10.44% of user’s posts)

THAT'S 1 IN 3 POSTS ON THIS THREAD

perhaps it's time for a lie down

Not at all., I'm LUVVIN IT.


You can all shut up whenever you like

[Snowball]

Just out of interest which WAY is Shane's career minutes per goal moving this season - has it gone up or down compared to the end of last season?

Are you seriously suggesting that a 18+1 game run (5 goals) is definitive? 2 goals in the next 2 games would be back to 1 in 3 (21/7)

No I am not saying that, and you will notice that I asked what effect this season is having on his CAREER minutes per goal. And I am only using league goals (what is Shane's LEAGUE goals per minute) as they are the only fair ones to include. No weakened cup teams, no matches against higher league opposition, no meaningless international friendlies, etc........

This season will only have a minor effect so far.

As for the rest, now you want stuff moved around. Sod off. Do it yourself.

You know full well that under Coppell we put out much weaker sides in the cup

[Wycombe Royal]

Snowball your credibility is falling off the scale, you cannot admit a defeat even when it served up on a plate and served to Michelin Star standards.

You asked for CURRENT CHAMPIONSHIP STRIKERS. I provided that. Now you want to move the goalposts because you have been proved wrong.

You have now narrowed the availablelist of strikers to just those who are equivalent age and experience as Long. Well that is a very narrow field and doesn'tleave many strikers to pick from.

THe players I provided are from a range of ages, experience and playing level. They have nearly all played more matches and scored more goals than Long. They have done this over a longer period of time than long. The sample size is a log bigger than it is for Long.

Whichever way you look at it you have lost this challenge yet you STILL persist in making yourself look more of an idiot. You should write a book about it, you have enough material. It might even sell 7 copies in some far away country.........

[Wycombe Royal]

Are you seriously suggesting that a 18+1 game run (5 goals) is definitive? 2 goals in the next 2 games would be back to 1 in 3 (21/7)

No I am not saying that, and you will notice that I asked what effect this season is having on his CAREER minutes per goal. And I am only using league goals (what is Shane's LEAGUE goals per minute) as they are the only fair ones to include. No weakened cup teams, no matches against higher league opposition, no meaningless international friendlies, etc........

This season will only have a minor effect so far.

As for the rest, now you want stuff moved around. Sod off. Do it yourself.

You know full well that under Coppell we put out much weaker sides in the cup

Even with cup games, internationals, etc included the strikers I provided will have better scoring rates than Long, and significantly so in some cases.