Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

You aksed me to name CURRENT Championship players - ALL OF THESE CURRENTLY PLAY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.
Stop moving the goalposts just because I have proved you worng AGAIN. You asked for five, I named a few more than that without even really trying.

Not moving the goalposts, just saying you amuse me, especially when you start quoting a player
whose "goals" are mostly non-league, as if that's even vaguely comparable, or a guy who
scores for fun in SCOTLAND playing for one of the big two who routinely win by bags-ful
but is struggling in the Championship.

And you've proved NOTHING yet. You just seem to have plucked figures out of the sky and deliberately distorted Shane's

[Wycombe Royal]

Just a quick reminder of the challenge you laid down. You can't go moving the goalposts after your challenge has been beaten with bells on........

But show me 5 current championship strikers who have records better than a goal every 223 minutes.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

If Boyd has 5 goals, and that constitutes struggling, how does Longs 4 goals count?

[Wycombe Royal]

You aksed me to name CURRENT Championship players - ALL OF THESE CURRENTLY PLAY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.
Stop moving the goalposts just because I have proved you worng AGAIN. You asked for five, I named a few more than that without even really trying.

Not moving the goalposts, just saying you amuse me, especially when you start quoting a player
whose "goals" are mostly non-league, as if that's even vaguely comparable, or a guy who
scores for fun in SCOTLAND playing for one of the big two who routinely win by bags-ful
but is struggling in the Championship.

And you've proved NOTHING yet. You just seem to have plucked figures out of the sky and deliberately distorted Shane's

No I haven't you fool. Even using your statistics of a goal every 223 minutes for Shane and me using stats from Soccerbase, even allowing 45 MINUTES, yes 45 minutes for subs appearances and a full 90 minutes for every start, most of those players I listed beat Shane.

Remember - CURRENT Championship strikers.

[Wycombe Royal]

If Boyd has 5 goals, and that constitutes struggling, how does Longs 4 goals count?

All from open play as well. No need for him to take penalties to get his goal count up.

Oh and in a team that is struggling as well..........

[Snowball]

Snowball your credibility is falling off the scale, you cannot admit a defeat even when it served up on a plate and served to Michelin Star standards.

You asked for CURRENT CHAMPIONSHIP STRIKERS. I provided that. Now you want to move the goalposts because you have been proved wrong.

You've proved sweet oxf*rd all. You haven't provided ONE player's minutes. It's all guessswork.

You include Mickey-Mouse goals in Scotland and Non-league to prove a point

You have now narrowed the availablelist of strikers to just those who are equivalent age and experience as Long.
Well that is a very narrow field and doesn'tleave many strikers to pick from.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I haven't "asked for" anything. I merely make the point that you have chosen players well into (some past) their prime
and some of whom are premiership players slumming it in the CCC... And Long is younger than every single one, and
is still 3-4 years away from his prime goal-scoring years.

THe players I provided are from a range of ages, experience and playing level.
They have nearly all played more matches and scored more goals than Long.
They have done this over a longer period of time than long.
The sample size is a log bigger than it is for Long.

Like you DIDN'T pick out big guns, it was just a random sample?
No you picked out mostly star-names. I'm amazed you left out Bothroyd.

Whichever way you look at it you have lost this challenge yet you STILL persist in making yourself look more of an idiot.
You should write a book about it, you have enough material. It might even sell 7 copies in some far away country.........

Not even SLIGHTLY. How big a deal would it be to find that there were 5 current CCC players doing better than a goal every 223 minutes?

That would make Shane 6th best in the league. Heavens!! What if you found TWENTY?

That would make him 21st out of 24 x 4 = 96 Strikers. I might faint!

But No, you actively seek the top-scorers, guys sold for 5.5 Million, 4 Million, 3 Million. 2.25 Million and then act as if they are run of the mill CCC striker to which Shane should be compared?

I have NEVER said Shane is the best striker in this league, or "as good as Doyle", or "as good as Kitson"

What I've said is he is WAY WAY better than the way he's talked about on HNA
and COMPARES FAVOURABLY when goals are looked at in terms of minutes on the pitch

Kitson is one of the best-ever RFC strikers and yet, over his whole career, how is his minutes per goal?

According to you it's 236 minutes. Long 82 Starts (80+ sub appearances) is 223 minutes.

If, in fact Kitson is 200 and Long is 240, Long is nowhere near his prime yet. THAT's the point.

You don't compare like for like.

I am not "asking" for anything, but to post goals-totals etc for players who have played as much as seven-eight more seasons is quite ridiculous.

[Snowball]

And ftr, a massive LOL at asking WR for 5 championship strikers, getting 8, and so then labelling them Premier League ability and so not relevant.

And exactly WHERE did I say they weren't relevant? You know lying on top of all the other guff?

[cmonurz]

Keep those goalposts moving, Snowball.

You asked WR to show you 5 Championship strikers with goal records better than Long's. What you actually wanted was the goal records of 5 23-year-olds who have mustered on average 15 or 16 starts a season and rarely score in open play.

Sadly for Shane, there really aren't many of them.

[Hoop Blah]

Interesting List.

So you select a load of big guns to portray Shane as badly as possible.

Ignore the fact that all are older than Shane and all bar two have played at least 3-4-5-6-7 seasons more

It's not my list, it's the Wycombe came up with for you earlier. You know the one where you said they were a load of Premiership quality forwards.

Are you going to answer my question about how they, as a collection of never quite made it or never even played in it players, are Premiership quality players?

I love how you have to dig out Premiership-quality players to even compete with this kid

[cmonurz]

And ftr, a massive LOL at asking WR for 5 championship strikers, getting 8, and so then labelling them Premier League ability and so not relevant.

And exactly WHERE did I say they weren't relevant? You know lying on top of all the other guff?

There's no point accusing me of lying when the evidence against that accusation is there for everyone to see.

Not 'relevant' or appropriate, or whatever adjective you want to use, the clear implication of your last few posts is that Wycombe's list was an unfair comparison to Long, in the sense, you were trying to devalue his comparison. You can call it what you like, and continue to accuse people of lying, being manipulative, or selective, but you are all these things, and tying yourself in knots.

[Wycombe Royal]

Snowball your credibility is falling off the scale, you cannot admit a defeat even when it served up on a plate and served to Michelin Star standards.

You asked for CURRENT CHAMPIONSHIP STRIKERS. I provided that. Now you want to move the goalposts because you have been proved wrong.

You've proved sweet oxf*rd all. You haven't provided ONE player's minutes. It's all guessswork.

You include Mickey-Mouse goals in Scotland and Non-league to prove a point

I have already said that if you do it based on minutes those minutes per goals will go DOWN. Or are you trying to tell me that those players will have played an average of 45 minutes per sub appearance and 90 minutes for every start. I have a job to do and I have a family. I don't have time to collate all the minutes played for every player. If you want to do that to disprove me then fine be my guest. But only an idiot wouldn't agree that my assumptions are correct.

You have now narrowed the availablelist of strikers to just those who are equivalent age and experience as Long.
Well that is a very narrow field and doesn'tleave many strikers to pick from.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I haven't "asked for" anything. I merely make the point that you have chosen players well into (some past) their prime
and some of whom are premiership players slumming it in the CCC... And Long is younger than every single one, and
is still 3-4 years away from his prime goal-scoring years.

It is more difficult to sustain a high goalscroing rate over a longer career. Shane is not young, he is a seasoned pro who has been playing for a Premiership/Championship club for 6 seasons.

THe players I provided are from a range of ages, experience and playing level.
They have nearly all played more matches and scored more goals than Long.
They have done this over a longer period of time than long.
The sample size is a log bigger than it is for Long.

Like you DIDN'T pick out big guns, it was just a random sample?
No you picked out mostly star-names. I'm amazed you left out Bothroyd.

No I didn't pick out the big guns. I picked out the players who have a high minutes per goal ration. That is what you asked for wasn't it?

Why would I pick Bothroyd, when up until this season he has not been a prolific striker?

Whichever way you look at it you have lost this challenge yet you STILL persist in making yourself look more of an idiot.
You should write a book about it, you have enough material. It might even sell 7 copies in some far away country.........

Not even SLIGHTLY. How big a deal would it be to find that there were 5 current CCC players doing better than a goal every 223 minutes?

That would make Shane 6th best in the league. Heavens!! What if you found TWENTY?

That would make him 21st out of 24 x 4 = 96 Strikers. I might faint!

But No, you actively seek the top-scorers, guys sold for 5.5 Million, 4 Million, 3 Million. 2.25 Million and then act as if they are run of the mill CCC striker to which Shane should be compared?

I have NEVER said Shane is the best striker in this league, or "as good as Doyle", or "as good as Kitson"

What I've said is he is WAY WAY better than the way he's talked about on HNA
and COMPARES FAVOURABLY when goals are looked at in terms of minutes on the pitch

Kitson is one of the best-ever RFC strikers and yet, over his whole career, how is his minutes per goal?

According to you it's 236 minutes. Long 82 Starts (80+ sub appearances) is 223 minutes.

If, in fact Kitson is 200 and Long is 240, Long is nowhere near his prime yet. THAT's the point.

You don't compare like for like.

I am not "asking" for anything, but to post goals-totals etc for players who have played as much as seven-eight more seasons is quite ridiculous.

I compared current Championship strikers to Shane who is also a current Championship striker. They all play at the same level. Age and experience are irrelevant. Maybe we should ask opposition defenders to go easy on him and the keepers to let some of his efforts in because he is so much younger an inexperienced than the others.

I answered your challenge. Simple as that but it is plainly obvious that you can't hadle or accept that. It looks like you might even be heading for a mental breakdown because of it.

[Hoop Blah]

I love how the list has gone from being full of 'Premiership Quality' players earlier on today to now including 'mickey-mouse' goals.

[Terminal Boardom]

What about assists? How many goals has Long had a pivotal role in other than those he has scored? The mark of a good centre forward is not just the goals scored but the chances created for team mates. When Dean Horrix joined Reading in 1983, he scored one very early on then went on a run of 20+ games before scoring. However, the fans never got on his back because they could see the effect he was having on the team and the number of goals that Trevor Senior scored - a good number from Horrix assists.

Go analyse that!

[Wycombe Royal]

What about assists? How many goals has Long had a pivotal role in other than those he has scored? The mark of a good centre forward is not just the goals scored but the chances created for team mates. When Dean Horrix joined Reading in 1983, he scored one very early on then went on a run of 20+ games before scoring. However, the fans never got on his back because they could see the effect he was having on the team and the number of goals that Trevor Senior scored - a good number from Horrix assists.

Go analyse that!

Shane Long, according to the official stats that Snowball uses does not have an assist to his name this season.

09/10 - 1 league, 1 cup
08/09 - 2 league
07/08 - 3 league
06/07 - none
05/06 - none

So in 5 and a half season he has, officially, 6 league assists and 1 cup. Fantastic.

Doyle had 20 up until he left.

For the record, Brian Howard has 5 this season.

[Snowball]

What about assists? How many goals has Long had a pivotal role in other than those he has scored? The mark of a good centre forward is not just the goals scored but the chances created for team mates. When Dean Horrix joined Reading in 1983, he scored one very early on then went on a run of 20+ games before scoring. However, the fans never got on his back because they could see the effect he was having on the team and the number of goals that Trevor Senior scored - a good number from Horrix assists.

Go analyse that!

Shane Long, according to the official stats that Snowball uses does not have an assist to his name this season.



For the record, Brian Howard has 5 this season.

Long had a direct pass clear as day, cut-back from the by-line for Antonio's goal. 1 Assist
If you take a look at the highlights he kicks the ball to Pearce for Pearce's goal. 2 Assists.

Howard has 5 assists. Excellent. Just like I said he would step up to partly replace Gylfi's assists

[Snowball]

What about assists? How many goals has Long had a pivotal role in other than those he has scored? The mark of a good centre forward is not just the goals scored but the chances created for team mates. When Dean Horrix joined Reading in 1983, he scored one very early on then went on a run of 20+ games before scoring. However, the fans never got on his back because they could see the effect he was having on the team and the number of goals that Trevor Senior scored - a good number from Horrix assists.

Go analyse that!

I already DID! And posted the list.

[Wycombe Royal]

What about assists? How many goals has Long had a pivotal role in other than those he has scored? The mark of a good centre forward is not just the goals scored but the chances created for team mates. When Dean Horrix joined Reading in 1983, he scored one very early on then went on a run of 20+ games before scoring. However, the fans never got on his back because they could see the effect he was having on the team and the number of goals that Trevor Senior scored - a good number from Horrix assists.

Go analyse that!

Shane Long, according to the official stats that Snowball uses does not have an assist to his name this season.



For the record, Brian Howard has 5 this season.

Long had a direct pass clear as day, cut-back from the by-line for Antonio's goal. 1 Assist
If you take a look at the highlights he kicks the ball to Pearce for Pearce's goal. 2 Assists.

Howard has 5 assists. Excellent. Just like I said he would step up to partly replace Gylfi's assists

I was using the officials undoctored stats. Sometimes you use them other times you manipulate them and adjust them. I suggest you send an email to the club and ask them to correct it.

[Hoop Blah]

For this season alone that seems pretty harsh on Shane doesn't it? He's created a few goals just by virtue of winning penalties but obviously that isn't counted by those who tally up the stats for the league websites.

That just shows up the flaws in snowballs stats yet again.

I don't think there is a lot of debate about what Long brings to the table in terms of graft and creating space and a few chances for others. Snowball seems to have made the argument all about goals and time played for a couple of seasons now. Shane, like pretty much all forwards, is about more than that though and stats will never be able to show that.

[Snowball]

What about assists? How many goals has Long had a pivotal role in other than those he has scored? The mark of a good centre forward is not just the goals scored but the chances created for team mates. When Dean Horrix joined Reading in 1983, he scored one very early on then went on a run of 20+ games before scoring. However, the fans never got on his back because they could see the effect he was having on the team and the number of goals that Trevor Senior scored - a good number from Horrix assists.

Go analyse that!

Involved-in includes scoring.

Long has also laid on gilt-edged chances missed by others, Church and McAnuff and Howard


Goal 01 Gylfi solo goal, Scunthorpe. Final Pass? Dunno.

Goal 03 Pearce shot from Long’s assist, Forest
Goal 04 Gylfi over keeper after Long wins ball for Kebe to pass, Leicester
Goal 05 Mills header from Howard corner, Leicester
Goal 06 Long solo run wins penalty and he scores it. Palace
Goal 07 Karacan pass, Long wins penalty. Taken by Harte who scores. Palace
Goal 08 Kebe on break. Last pass? Long already off. Palace
Goal 09 Kebe solo goal with assist from Howard, Boro
Goal 10 Kebe brilliant header from HRK’s cross

Goal 14 Kebe wins corner, Harte, half-cleared, Karacan screamer
Goal 15 Long wins penalty and scores it.
Goal 16 Long wins attacking Free-Kick. Harte, McAnuff scores
Goal 17 Long gets to by-line and squares for Antonio
Goal 18 Howard? puts Church through, Church scores.
Goal 19 Harte free-kick, HRK heads back, Long back-heel, Mills bundles it in
Goal 20 Hunt, great cross, brilliant header from Karacan
Goal 21 Harte scores a free-kick after handball
Goal 22 Howard, great ball to Antonio, who feeds Church. Goal!
Goal 23 LONG receives pass from Church 30 yards out, drives in, shoots from 25 yards QPR

Goal 24 Church cross, Long taking defenders, Hunt far post slots home
Goal 25 Harte taps home from Howard corner
Goal 26 Karacan great ball to Hunt who delicately chips keeper
Goal 27 Long wins penalty, takes penalty. scores

[Snowball]

I was using the officials undoctored stats. Sometimes you use them other times you manipulate them and adjust them. I suggest you send an email to the club and ask them to correct it.

I suggest YOU do.