Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

It's still 2 goals and an assist in 3 internationals.

How is Doyle doing?

Playing in the Premier League if I am not mistaken. The only way Shane Long will get back there is with Reading as he really is not good enough to be bought by a PL club.

Put today's date in your diary and bookmark that statement.


I know where Doyle is currently plying his trade. With a side currently just 11 places above RFC, but so far zero league goals after 11 starts.

But that's OK, it's just a dry patch all good players get them, even Shane Long (apparently)

The difference is, when Shane gets a dry spell he's total shit. If it's anyone else, there is always an excuse, and anyway "he does so much other good work".

[Snowball]

So=meone needs to ring Trappatoni URGENTLY.

The poor deluded old man thinks Shane can play.


Ireland goal came from Shane Long, who operated as partner to Kevin Doyle in the absence of Robbie Keane. Long gave notice of his determination with the vigorous manner he responded to John O'Shea's forceful run out of defence and clever ball angled behind centre-back Hangeland. Long had to battle for possession and was sent tumbling as Hangeland fought to hold him off. Long stepped up to strike the resulting penalty home with total conviction and for 20 minutes Ireland were dynamic and progressive in their play

Nobody responded better to the opportunity presented by the manager than Long himself. He was very effective alongside Doyle and his energetic work caused endless problems for the Norway centre-backs.

Ireland played well and had the ball most of the time but we played well and took out chances when we got them."

Ireland manager Giovanni Trapattoni said: "I said to the players well done. It was disappointing because we did not deserve to lose."


Long was one of the Irish success stories on the night and Trapattoni suggested the 23 years old striker was giving him a selection problem.


He said: "On the counter attack they are very, very dangerous and although we were missing six of our regular team we played well, maybe better than I expected."

[Wimb]

Quick question Snowball, as you would appear not to be a Reading fan - do you go round fan sites of other clubs defending all footballers from the evils of moderately nasty words?

How do you figure that I'm not a Reading fan? (Because I also like Arsenal, Newport, Carlisle?) Is that not ALLOWED?

I have a season ticket. I go to half-a-dozen away games a season.

I take my family to RFC games as often as I can.

I defend RFC players. Now which bit of that makes me NOT a Reading fan?

Of course you can, and I apologise for the slight, however I would ask though whether you do as you are now on sites for Arsenal fans, Newport Fans, Carlisle Fans, fans of A.N.Other club, as discussions of the type you see on here happen on every single fan site - always have and always will.

The simple fact is with regards to Long, some fans don't rate him, some do (on this board as well as in the real world) the one concern or criticism they have is that AT THIS TIME, as our No 1 striker, they feel he is not scoring enough despite actually playing quite well most weeks. I don't care how old he is, I don't care if his peak is 4/5 years ago, in the here and now he's not scoring enough and that's a real concern for a lot of people.

Is that his fault, to an extent yes, as he has missed some very decent chances - in other ways no, as perhaps we aren't playing a system that will create the type of chance he needs.

Some have questioned his work ethic, again at times that is valid - he is probably the hardest working player on the pitch, it doesn't mean he can't be lazy at times and sadly for him it will be magnified more as it is more noticeable when he does shirk (however rare that may be) so it will get picked up - regardless of your actual view of the player.

I don't think anybody will ever claim that Long is always crap but I can also understand the frustration of fans that perhaps, just perhaps his continued is holding us back as the goals aren't coming from him right now (as long as they come from someone, I'm happy)

You've surmised yourself on occasion that losing Glyfi has been of benefit to the club - yes we lost a great player but it's allowed others to step up or come in - isn't also a fair suggestion for someone to make that letting Long go, could be of benefit to the team overall? Admittedly some could choose their words better but it's a football forum where people often post whilst het up about a result and don't censor themselves.

Quite disappointed that you haven't acknowledged this post, or many of the other very well written and detailed points from posters such as myself, IR and URZ that have attempted to clarify views and draw a line under this.

[Snowball]

Of course you can, and I apologise for the slight, however I would ask though whether you do as you are now on sites for Arsenal fans, Newport Fans, Carlisle Fans, fans of A.N.Other club, as discussions of the type you see on here happen on every single fan site - always have and always will.

The simple fact is with regards to Long, some fans don't rate him, some do (on this board as well as in the real world) the one concern or criticism they have is that AT THIS TIME, as our No 1 striker, they feel he is not scoring enough despite actually playing quite well most weeks. I don't care how old he is, I don't care if his peak is 4/5 years ago, in the here and now he's not scoring enough and that's a real concern for a lot of people.

Is that his fault, to an extent yes, as he has missed some very decent chances - in other ways no, as perhaps we aren't playing a system that will create the type of chance he needs.

Some have questioned his work ethic, again at times that is valid - he is probably the hardest working player on the pitch, it doesn't mean he can't be lazy at times and sadly for him it will be magnified more as it is more noticeable when he does shirk (however rare that may be) so it will get picked up - regardless of your actual view of the player.

I don't think anybody will ever claim that Long is always crap but I can also understand the frustration of fans that perhaps, just perhaps his continued is holding us back as the goals aren't coming from him right now (as long as they come from someone, I'm happy)

You've surmised yourself on occasion that losing Glyfi has been of benefit to the club - yes we lost a great player but it's allowed others to step up or come in - isn't also a fair suggestion for someone to make that letting Long go, could be of benefit to the team overall? Admittedly some could choose their words better but it's a football forum where people often post whilst het up about a result and don't censor themselves.

Quite disappointed that you haven't acknowledged this post, or many of the other very well written and detailed points from posters such as myself, IR and URZ that have attempted to clarify views and draw a line under this.

Draw a line under WHAT? That post, however well-written, still manages to suggest Long should go, could go, or some kind of go.

What's the title of the thread? Remind me.

[Wimb]

So a fan is not allowed to think that Long should go, despite producing both statistical and intangible reasons for thinking so?

Can you please stop clinging to the header of the thread, the OP has long since disappeared and those that are left are only concerned with debating the general performances, expectations and hopes for Long in the future.

The name calling and micky taking have perhaps gone a bit far, but Snowball you've yet to give any credit to anyone else for their statistical analysis or concede any ground on any subject. A tiny shred of humility and openness would make you a really positive presence on the board as nobody can deny the depth of your stats provides genuinely interesting talking points.

[floyd__streete]

nobody can deny the depth of your stats provides genuinely interesting talking points.

I can.

You can throw as much f*cking data as you like at the question, football isn't played on paper. If it was, you could use your statistical analysis to prove - oooh I dunno - say, why Reading will beat Bristol City side who haven't defeated a top-half team all season .

[chilipepper91]

See when I posted that Long had scored on this thread I wanted it to be a proper discussion of why it's going well for country and not so good for club. Not a huge statistical analysis of every goal/sending off he's got for the club, or the snide remark about Doyle's international form - I know who I'd rather have leading the line here. And this from somebody who thinks Long doesn't get the respect he deserves, before you accuse me of irrational hatred of the man.

[Wimb]

nobody can deny the depth of your stats provides genuinely interesting talking points.

I can.

You can throw as much f*cking data as you like at the question, football isn't played on paper. If it was, you could use your statistical analysis to prove - oooh I dunno - say, why Reading will beat Bristol City side who haven't defeated a top-half team all season .

Valid Floyd, but at WORST Snowball's stats at least provide a talking point on the limited nature of stats and at best flag up things that fans may gloss over.

[Snowball]

See when I posted that Long had scored on this thread I wanted it to be a proper discussion of why it's going well for country and not so good for club. Not a huge statistical analysis of every goal/sending off he's got for the club, or the snide remark about Doyle's international form - I know who I'd rather have leading the line here. And this from somebody who thinks Long doesn't get the respect he deserves, before you accuse me of irrational hatred of the man.

It wasn't meant as anti-Doyle. I love the bloke.

And I wasn't talking about his international form, but the fact he has failed to score in 11 full Premiership games this year. Shane is being heavily criticised even though in 16 league games he's scored four times! That's where I'm coming from.

But my point is people apologise for Doyle all the time, Kitson all the time, and pretend these people don't get simple runs where they can't score. But when SHANE gets a dry spell it is because he's shit and only because he's shit. Jesus, they are complaining about Shane being useless when he has six goals this season, when he has three assists, has also won a penalty which he let someone else take, has had an opposition player sent off allowing us to win 4-0! If he's shit when he does that, Heaven help him when he actually DOES play badly.


And see, I think you're wrong, anyway. I think it IS going well for club. We are a cobbled-together club that a season ago was heading for near-certain relegation, have since sold our best player, and a season striker who could get close on 1 goal in 2. We have a 21 year old guy who is a regular in midfield, a 23 year old and a 20 year old up front, and our CB is only 24. That's a young side and to some extent a side still trying to find a new way forward after the departure of Gylfi.

Yet despite this we are the horrendously mountain-to-climb TWO points off the playoffs, just THREE points off fourth place, and we are sixth in the table on GD.

[cmonurz]

Can you show me where people are 'excusing Kitson/Doyle' all of the time?

For Doyle in particular, as I've already said, when he went on his huge goal drought of 27 (I think?) games, there were all sorts of threads on here denouncing Coppell's decision to keep playing him.

I can only assume you weren't reading this board then, as I'm sure you'd remember those threads if you did.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Just scored a pen for Ireland.

Did he win it?

Indeed he did, and a nice dive it was indeed.
Good thing Norway scored twice and won despite his diving antics.

Forcing yourself goalside of a player to force a tangle of legs aint easy otherwise everyone would be doing it. Long is very good at it and its why he's won something like 20 pens for Reading. Dive my arse.

[BR2]

Just scored a pen for Ireland.

Did he win it?

Indeed he did, and a nice dive it was indeed.
Good thing Norway scored twice and won despite his diving antics.

Only saw the replay of the penalty award twice but from what I saw Shane grabbed Hangeland's arm and dragged him to the ground-from where the ref was it looked a penalty and he gave it.
It looks as though he has developed this technique which could well win us more penalties as the season progresses but I think we have to be prepared for a few bookings for diving when the more astute refs are officiating.
The professionals will always argue that you win some,you lose some and that is how it is in the modern game unfortunately-cheats everywhere and probably the main reason why so many people are now getting turned off by professional football.

Today's Daily Mail suggested that we are in for Eidur Gudjohnsen on loan.
As Brian has strongly stated that he won't sign loan players unless there is a very good chance of a subsequent permanent signing I think this would be really good news.
Presumably Brian would play him up front plus any one of the other three and our current strikers could learn a hell of a lot from a player like him whereas I fear they will learn very little from each other.

[Hoop Blah]

Can you show me where people are 'excusing Kitson/Doyle' all of the time?

For Doyle in particular, as I've already said, when he went on his huge goal drought of 27 (I think?) games, there were all sorts of threads on here denouncing Coppell's decision to keep playing him.

I can only assume you weren't reading this board then, as I'm sure you'd remember those threads if you did.

I'm pretty sure you'll find Kitson was lambasted for not scoring many for Stoke on this board too, let alone his 'dry spells' for us both as a full time player and a loanee.

Snowball, if you're going to defend Long by making claims that just aren't factual then you really should give up.

[Snowball]

Only saw the replay of the penalty award twice but from what I saw Shane grabbed Hangeland's arm and dragged him to the ground-from where the ref was it looked a penalty and he gave it.
It looks as though he has developed this technique which could well win us more penalties as the season progresses but I think we have to be prepared for a few bookings for diving when the more astute refs are officiating.

And not a single yellow this season and he's appeared 20 times. 16+1 domestically and 2+1 internationally.

Not ONE yellow card, but you suggest he's a cheat. For comparison, Grant Holt, in 3 less games has had 3 yellows and a red.

The professionals will always argue that you win some,you lose some and that is how it is in the modern game unfortunately-cheats everywhere and probably the main reason why so many people are now getting turned off by professional football.

So now the whipping boy is a cheat too? Jesus!

[Snowball]

I'm pretty sure you'll find Kitson was lambasted for not scoring many for Stoke on this board too, let alone his 'dry spells' for us both as a full time player and a loanee.

Snowball, if you're going to defend Long by making claims that just aren't factual then you really should give up.

Those players get droughts, one is having a drought right now (Doyle)
and the other barely scored in 30 games, is not just 4 goals this season


Yet Shane's relative drought is being harked upon (Thread title, first two pages?)

and the point is, DROUGHTS ARE NORMAL, all players get them, and Shane isn't even IN one.

So, because of that, the usual suspects have to switch to "Ooh they weren't in open play"


If Doyle was winning and scoring pens at Long's rate, you'd all praise his brilliance.

[cmonurz]

Shane Long isn't in a goal drought, because to be in a goal drought you have to have previously scored goals regularly. 'Regularly' does not mean one purple patch of 4 games last season, and a handful of penalties this season, in five years at the club.

[Wycombe Royal]

Not ONE yellow card, but you suggest he's a cheat. For comparison, Grant Holt, in 3 less games has had 3 yellows and a red!

According to soccerbase it is 4 yellows, and the red has been overturned.

[Snowball]

Not ONE yellow card, but you suggest he's a cheat. For comparison, Grant Holt, in 3 less games has had 3 yellows and a red!

According to soccerbase it is 4 yellows, and the red has been overturned.

That was quick. I looked at soccerbase five minutes ago to get those stats. And surely the red becomes a yellow?

[Snowball]

Not ONE yellow card, but you suggest he's a cheat. For comparison, Grant Holt, in 3 less games has had 3 yellows and a red!

According to soccerbase it is 4 yellows, and the red has been overturned.

That was quick. I looked at soccerbase five minutes ago to get those stats. And surely the red becomes a yellow? so that is FIVE yellows then?

The red is still there. If there's some confusion maybe just look at previous years to see what kind of player he is.

The point, surely is that ALLEGED cheat Shane Long has had ZERO bookings in 20 appearances this season
whereas Holt in (actually 19) 19 appearances has had 3 Y 1R, or 4Y 1R, or 4Y, or 5 Y

Choose whichever stats you like it's a lot worse a disciplinary record than Shane

[Wycombe Royal]

Not ONE yellow card, but you suggest he's a cheat. For comparison, Grant Holt, in 3 less games has had 3 yellows and a red!

According to soccerbase it is 4 yellows, and the red has been overturned.

That was quick. I looked at soccerbase five minutes ago to get those stats. And surely the red becomes a yellow?

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=17954

4 yellows and the red shown on this page. And the red card is overturned it is not downgraded to a yellow.