Long - Time to go.

[Hoop Blah]

Snowball, you seem blind to the fact that Long is getting praise for the way he's playing.

He's getting some stick for not scoring, which is pretty understandable and is par for the course as is proven by the likes of Doyle, Kitson, Forster and Rougier (despite your laughable claims that they didn't get stick for the exact same reasons).

Largely, the so called debate on here isn't about how Longs been playing because you seem so obsessed with proving the unprovable through the use of your inaccurate and irrelavant statistics. If you shut up trying to prove he's scoring goals when he's not the debate can focus on how well he's actually playing (or not) and the merits of him being in the team.

For the record his diving for penalties isn't a new discussion point, it's something that's been talked about before. No more so than earlier this season when he dived for the penalty against (I think it was) Barnsley.

[Wycombe Royal]

I think saying the Long dives to win penalties is a bit harsh. He plays for them, draws the tackle, and goes down under "minimal" contact for a lot of them. Is that diving? I don't think so.

[cmonurz]

I think saying the Long dives to win penalties is a bit harsh. He plays for them, draws the tackle, and goes down under "minimal" contact for a lot of them. Is that diving? I don't think so.

No, it's not diving. And (sadly perhaps) the striker who doesn't do this is in a small minority these days. Owen was famous for it.

[andrew1957]

Although I don't want to compete with Snowball on stats I would say that Long's goal scoring for RFC is actually quite good for a player of his age.

He has played 84+83 games for us. Many of the sub appearances were just a few minutes so it would be fair to divide these by 4. This then equates to 104.75 appearances and 33 goals - which is 1 in 3.17 games. This is not bad at all. The best strikers achieve 1 in 2 but they are very few and far between and 1 in 3 or so is good.

Additionally Longy is definitely improving as an all round player. Many strikers take time to become top players and reach their peak between the ages of 25-30 typically. Also I just had a look at Noel Hunt's stats and they are not as good as Long's at the same age and he was playing at a much lower level.

Long could still become a top striker if he can just improve his conversion rate from open play.

[Snowball]

Snowball, you seem blind to the fact that Long is getting praise for the way he's playing.

He's getting some stick for not scoring, which is pretty understandable and is par for the course as is proven by the likes of Doyle, Kitson, Forster and Rougier (despite your laughable claims that they didn't get stick for the exact same reasons).

Largely, the so called debate on here isn't about how Longs been playing because you seem so obsessed with proving the unprovable through the use of your inaccurate and irrelavant statistics. If you shut up trying to prove he's scoring goals when he's not the debate can focus on how well he's actually playing (or not) and the merits of him being in the team.

For the record his diving for penalties isn't a new discussion point, it's something that's been talked about before. No more so than earlier this season when he dived for the penalty against (I think it was) Barnsley.

Sure he's diving for penalties and getting booked for simulation. That's why he has 17 yellows and 3 reds this season.

Do you people ever listen to yourselves? Do you not realise how much you sound like racists?
(I choose the word very carefully because your prejudices are so extreme)


Two years ago when he was scoring the cry went up that he does nothing else (whereas the God Doyle DOES)
A year ago when he was scoring the cry went up that he does nothing else (whereas the God Doyle DOES)

Then when some say he works very, very hard, you still say "only some of the time, he's basically lazy"

Then when he starts to get goals (this is his best season EVER) the newly-invented cry is now NOT FROM OPEN PLAY.

When he gets his 3rd or 4th contract extension, that's just to make him more sellable.

You take any and every positive about Long and twist it to attack him. You Hoop are the worst, the sneakiest, the nastiest. You slide in your quiet digs while pretending to be even-handed

[Hoop Blah]

I think saying the Long dives to win penalties is a bit harsh. He plays for them, draws the tackle, and goes down under "minimal" contact for a lot of them. Is that diving? I don't think so.

That's true, although the one earlier this season I think he took a dive.

Generally he does well to draw a bit of contact and then hits the deck. It's not really diving, but it's not exactly in the spirit of the game and winning a penalty through traditional skillful play. Beggars can't be choosers though.

[Terminal Boardom]

FFS Snowball, can you just accpet one observation that whereas Long IS playing well, nd that his work rate is of a high standard, his goal scoring could do with improving.

[Snowball]

Although I don't want to compete with Snowball on stats I would say that Long's goal scoring for RFC is actually quite good for a player of his age.

He has played 84+83 games for us. Many of the sub appearances were just a few minutes so it would be fair to divide these by 4. This then equates to 104.75 appearances and 33 goals - which is 1 in 3.17 games. This is not bad at all. The best strikers achieve 1 in 2 but they are very few and far between and 1 in 3 or so is good.

Additionally Longy is definitely improving as an all round player. Many strikers take time to become top players and reach their peak between the ages of 25-30 typically. Also I just had a look at Noel Hunt's stats and they are not as good as Long's at the same age and he was playing at a much lower level.

Long could still become a top striker if he can just improve his conversion rate from open play.

I have his total minutes. His ireland minutes are down as 542 but are probably less. I used his RECENT average and thus presumed, for the games I can't find, that he was getting on for 32 minutes when on as a sub (at 18-19-20, incredibly unlikely)

8,823 Minutes played 38 Goals 232.18 minutes per goal 1 every 2.58 games.


What distorts the view of Long a LOT IMO is that back in the days he was often brought on for 2-3-4-5-6-7-8 minutes
and NOT brought on to get the crucial goal but to harass the opposition to protect a lead.

People with small brains go 160+ appearances and don't think beyond that.

His time on the pitch needs two more full games to equal 100 games. 38 from a hundred (and he's still under 24, is not shabby)

And before the knee-jerk bleating starts YET AGAIN, go check Doyle's starts. He mostly played the whole match or came off around 84-87 minutes to give a sub a brief run. When I get the time I'll do Doyle's career minutes. I'm sure he will come out somewhere between 180 and 220 minutes, but then that's 6.5 Million's worth. Long is OK

[Snowball]

I think saying the Long dives to win penalties is a bit harsh. He plays for them, draws the tackle,
and goes down under "minimal" contact for a lot of them. Is that diving? I don't think so.

Precisely. It's also due to his style, bursting through with powerful
runs. Soon, something will change, Players will be warned by
managers and he'll get more shots away.


Cue the Hoopies saying, "And he'll fail to score..."



And PS how many times has he been chopped down this season and the defenders have got away with it?

[Snowball]

That's true, although the one earlier this season I think he took a dive.

AND THE REF DIDN'T. Obviously, though, you know better than the
man on the pitch being paid to spot penalties and book divers.

[cmonurz]

And yet you continue to ignore my posts on this thread (and others, I think) mentioning that when Doyle went through his own goal drought, people were on his back and wanted him out of the side.

Starting to acknowledge points you don't necessarily agree with, or presumably in the case of Doyle on this Team board, know anything about, would hold you in good stead.

Why keep implying Doyle is seen as some kind of 'God'? He got plenty of criticism whilst was here, when his performances were not up to scratch. That said, he remains a better player for Reading than Long has ever been.

As has already been put eloquently on this page more than once, you could really do with conceding some ground on the obvious, and then you might begin to see that in some respects, Longs work-rate, improved first touch etc, he is getting praise, and it is his goal-scoring that has attracted the negative attention. Whichever way you look at it, his ability to create and score chances remains in doubt, and from the start of last season he has just 6 goals in open play in the league, 4 of which came in a tiny burst in the middle of last season. That is an undeniable fact - accepting that he could improve on that aspect of his game would make your arguments a bit more credible.

[Snowball]

FFS Snowball, can you just accpet one observation that whereas Long IS playing well, and that his work rate is of a high standard, his goal scoring could do with improving.

Hoop has said he thinks he slacks and today's, "Let's beat up Long" is he's a cheat.

[cmonurz]

I've also noticed a trend Snowball in the direction of your posts - you bring up a subject, and then like a sniper taking his victim in his sights, you round on whichever individual happens to disagree with you. Me and Wycombe has both posted in support of Long, that he isn't diving, or cheating, and you glaze over those posts, instead focusing on Hoop Blah in this instance because he's the one you have decided holds a different point of view.

It's like you want, or need, everyone to agree with you. It's a little peculiar.

[Snowball]

I've also noticed a trend Snowball in the direction of your posts - you bring up a subject, and then like a sniper taking his victim in his sights, you round on whichever individual happens to disagree with you. Me and Wycombe has both posted in support of Long, that he isn't diving, or cheating, and you glaze over those posts,

You mean like this?

Wycombe Royal wrote:I think saying the Long dives to win penalties is a bit harsh. He plays for them, draws the tackle,
and goes down under "minimal" contact for a lot of them. Is that diving? I don't think so.

Precisely. It's also due to his style, bursting through with powerful
runs. Soon, something will change, Players will be warned by
managers and he'll get more shots away.


Cue the Hoopies saying, "And he'll fail to score..."



And PS how many times has he been chopped down this season and the defenders have got away with it?


Gloss-Gloss

[Snowball]

It's like you want, or need, everyone to agree with you.

It's like I want everyone to be honest (they are often not) consistent (they rarely are) and fair (in yer dreams)


Look, the guy gets his fifth goal in 9 (1) games so they switch from "goals" to calling him a oxf*rd cheat!

It's pathetic

[cmonurz]

There's no 'switch', Long's inability to score from open play for Reading remains a concern, I don't see how that has changed.

I don't mean it as an insult to suggest you come across as paranoid - constantly accusing people of being deliberately misleading or dishonest. I've never doubted that your posts are well-meaning and generally reflect your opinion on Long, and you should have enough respect for others to assume that their posts reflect the same.

And you're still ignoring my comments re Doyle. If you're going to claim he is seen as some sort of 'God', that ignores the huge demand there was on this board for Coppell to drop him through the extended barren spell without a goal.

[andrew1957]

Although I don't want to compete with Snowball on stats I would say that Long's goal scoring for RFC is actually quite good for a player of his age.

He has played 84+83 games for us. Many of the sub appearances were just a few minutes so it would be fair to divide these by 4. This then equates to 104.75 appearances and 33 goals - which is 1 in 3.17 games. This is not bad at all. The best strikers achieve 1 in 2 but they are very few and far between and 1 in 3 or so is good.

Additionally Longy is definitely improving as an all round player. Many strikers take time to become top players and reach their peak between the ages of 25-30 typically. Also I just had a look at Noel Hunt's stats and they are not as good as Long's at the same age and he was playing at a much lower level.

Long could still become a top striker if he can just improve his conversion rate from open play.

I have his total minutes. His ireland minutes are down as 542 but are probably less. I used his RECENT average and thus presumed, for the games I can't find, that he was getting on for 32 minutes when on as a sub (at 18-19-20, incredibly unlikely)

8,823 Minutes played 38 Goals 232.18 minutes per goal 1 every 2.58 games.


What distorts the view of Long a LOT IMO is that back in the days he was often brought on for 2-3-4-5-6-7-8 minutes
and NOT brought on to get the crucial goal but to harass the opposition to protect a lead.

People with small brains go 160+ appearances and don't think beyond that.

His time on the pitch needs two more full games to equal 100 games. 38 from a hundred (and he's still under 24, is not shabby)

And before the knee-jerk bleating starts YET AGAIN, go check Doyle's starts. He mostly played the whole match or came off around 84-87 minutes to give a sub a brief run. When I get the time I'll do Doyle's career minutes. I'm sure he will come out somewhere between 180 and 220 minutes, but then that's 6.5 Million's worth. Long is OK

An interesting comparison is with Jay Bothroyd. Between the ages of 18-23 he played 90+63 - again dividing sub appearances by 4 that is 105.75 starts and scored 30 goals. These are worse stats than Long and Bothroyd is now an England player! Based on these stats Long is the better player of the two.

[Snowball]

And yet you continue to ignore my posts on this thread (and others, I think) mentioning that when Doyle went through his own goal drought, people were on his back and wanted him out of the side.

Do you compare Shane's (so-called) drought this year to Doyle's then and say "it happens"? No, you find reasons and excuses. Hoop, for example blames Coppell for over-using him, or playing him on the wing etc etc etc. And when he doesn't score it doesn't matter anyway because HE BRINGS SO MUCH MORE TO THE TEAM.

You don't even know you do it!!

Why keep implying Doyle is seen as some kind of 'God'?


BECAUSE HE IS SEEN THAT WAY. AND BECAUSE "LONG WILL NEVER BE AS GOOD AS HIM BLAH BLAH BLAH

He got plenty of criticism whilst was here, when his performances were not up to scratch. That said, he remains a better player for Reading than Long has ever been.

You missed "or ever will be" and "not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence"

[cmonurz]

Fwiw and to prove I'm consistent, I don't rate Long or Bothroyd.

[Snowball]

And you're still ignoring my comments re Doyle. If you're going to claim he is seen as some sort of 'God', that ignores the huge demand there was on this board for Coppell to drop him through the extended barren spell without a goal.

Source? I wonder who was defending Doyle then?