Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

Fwiw and to prove I'm consistent, I don't rate Long or Bothroyd.

Proof of how poor your judgment is.

[cmonurz]

Ultimately Snowball, you are wasting your time because, like it or not, your posts are treated with a little bit of ridicule, because you can't accept that Long doesn't score enough.

I repeat, 6 goals from open play since the start of last season, and 4 of those in a 4 game spell around Xmas.

Long has many good attributes to his game, but scoring is not currently one of them.

As for a source re Doyle - you'll have to just take my word for it as you weren't, and others who have been using this board for years will be able to back me up. There was considerable clamour for him to be dropped.

[cmonurz]

Fwiw and to prove I'm consistent, I don't rate Long or Bothroyd.

Proof of how poor your judgment is.

I don't really care what your opinion is with regard to my judgement. It's my opinion, I don't rate them and see them both as inconsistent and not scoring enough goals.

You are perfectly entitled to your own opinion on these players, and I certainly won't say you are 'wrong' on them.

[Snowball]

There's no 'switch', Long's inability to score from open play for Reading remains a concern, I don't see how that has changed.

It hasn't CHANGED it's been INVENTED.

He has had the ability to score excellent goals throughout his career.

He has scored, now 38 goals in first-class football, CCC, Premiership, and Internationally. I think 4 or 5 of those are pens.

That's LESS pens than Doyle (6 that I know of) LESS Pens than Kitson (6 that I know of). And Lita has scored pens. He did last year for Boro. SHunt scored bucketloads of pens Gyfli had EIGHT penalties last season EIGHT, in a single season, more than Long has taken in his whole career.

But some moron decided to make an issue of "open play" NOT because it was a feature of Long's playing style or career, but because THIS SEASON when even the morons recognised that the 451 role was stifling him, he was on a short run of not scoring so many open-play goals.

You, cheating as always, decided NOT TO INCLUDE the cup games where he scored three GREAT open-play goals because they screwed with your agenda. And you have an agenda.

[andrew1957]

The comparison with Doyle is a poor one because he was an exceptional player at the age of 21. I still hope he will get the chance of a top 6 PL club because he deserves it.

The comparison with Bothroyd is more relevant because like Long he was a slow starter and only really started to come good at the age of 25 or so. That is typical for many top strikers. They learn the game and reach their peak at about 25-30 - as I said before.

If Shane keeps developing at the current rate, it would not surprise me if we end up selling him to a PL club for £5M or so in a year or two.

[Hoop Blah]

That's true, although the one earlier this season I think he took a dive.

AND THE REF DIDN'T. Obviously, though, you know better than the
man on the pitch being paid to spot penalties and book divers.

Do you know that for a FACT?

Have you asked the ref after having the benefit, as I have, of watching the incident a few times from various angles on the TV footage?

Did he have my vantage point with a better view then he did?

Do refs ever make a mistake? If they don't, and you can confirm your statement as a FACT then I guess I'll have to admit to being wrong.

[Hoop Blah]

The comparison with Bothroyd is more relevant because like Long he was a slow starter and only really started to come good at the age of 25 or so. That is typical for many top strikers. They learn the game and reach their peak at about 25-30 - as I said before.

The only problem with that is that I'm pretty sure Bothroyd played more as a winger early on his his career didn't he?

[cmonurz]

No, I don't have an agenda at all.

And you have proven again, that you are intensely paranoid.

Why is someone a moron because they think we should look at goals from open play? That's another baseless insult, borne purely from your frustration that people look at things differently to you.

And why claim that 'this season' Long has a problem with goals from open play when all 4 such league goals last season came from that short 4-game spell around Xmas?

You have not once taken an opportunity to step back and consider that this mountain of disagreement coming your way might have some founding, and that's to your detriment.

[Snowball]

It was Reading striker Long's fifth senior international goal on his 16th appearance for the Republic and his fifth start, the fourth of which came in last month's 1-1 Euro 2012 qualifier draw in Slovakia.

Despite the defeat, Ireland boss Giovanni Trapattoni felt there were some positives to take from the game, in particular the performance of goalscorer Long.

“It is important he is now playing for his club every week and scoring goals and I like his personality,” said Trapattoni.

“He held the ball up well, was very offensive and in the second half he could have scored another goal.

“If he continues playing with his club, we have another striker. Until now we have only had Robbie Keane and Kevin Doyle – now we have another.


Serious competition for Kevin Doyle and Robbie Keane. Not bad eh?

[Wycombe Royal]

That's true, although the one earlier this season I think he took a dive.

AND THE REF DIDN'T. Obviously, though, you know better than the
man on the pitch being paid to spot penalties and book divers.

So are you now saying the referee is ALWAYS right?

[floyd__streete]

Serious competition for Kevin Doyle and Robbie Keane. Not bad eh?

Don't give a sh*t about the micks national team, m8.

[Wycombe Royal]

He has scored, now 38 goals in first-class football, CCC, Premiership, and Internationally. I think 4 or 5 of those are pens.

Long has scored 6 penalties - 5 for Reading and 1 for Ireland.

[pea]

He won a lot of freekicks last Saturday and I have to say, with the benefit of TV replays I agreed with the refs decision to award every single one even if, at first look some appeared soft. He's very good at drawing the fouls, he seems to have turned a corner the last few games, if he continues to play with more confidence and take defenders on (like he did against Norwich) and shoot when he gets a decent sight of goal (like he did, and scored, against QPR) then he could have a good season.

[Terminal Boardom]

FFS Snowball, can you just accpet one observation that whereas Long IS playing well, and that his work rate is of a high standard, his goal scoring could do with improving.

Hoop has said he thinks he slacks and today's, "Let's beat up Long" is he's a cheat.

How about you try responding to my statement instead of twisting it to suit?

[Hoop Blah]

FFS Snowball, can you just accpet one observation that whereas Long IS playing well, and that his work rate is of a high standard, his goal scoring could do with improving.

Hoop has said he thinks he slacks and today's, "Let's beat up Long" is he's a cheat.

How about you try responding to my statement instead of twisting it to suit?

Snowball, I think the majority of professional footballers cheat, it's not just Long and Harte. It's essentially part of their job.

Mills took a bit of a dive in the box in a recent home game (may have been Cardiff) and that was shortly after losing his head at QPR for someone doing the same to us. It's now part of the game so it's not a criticism of Long as such (although personally I'd prefer it if we didn't dive), just an observation.

[Royal With Cheese]

Mills took a bit of a dive in the box in a recent home game (may have been Cardiff) and that was shortly after losing his head at QPR for someone doing the same to us. It's now part of the game so it's not a criticism of Long as such (although personally I'd prefer it if we didn't dive), just an observation.

Agreed.

[Snowball]

That's true, although the one earlier this season I think he took a dive.

AND THE REF DIDN'T. Obviously, though, you know better than the
man on the pitch being paid to spot penalties and book divers.

So are you now saying the referee is ALWAYS right?

Definitely NOT, Just 1,000 times more often right than some prejudiced jerk in the crowd

[Snowball]

He has scored, now 38 goals in first-class football, CCC, Premiership, and Internationally. I think 4 or 5 of those are pens.

Long has scored 6 penalties - 5 for Reading and 1 for Ireland.

If you say so.

Then it's only 32, about 85% of his goals are open play, shucks... And Doyle is just under 90% and Kitson's 88-89%

[Snowball]

He won a lot of freekicks last Saturday and I have to say, with the benefit of TV replays I agreed with the refs decision to award every single one even if, at first look some appeared soft. He's very good at drawing the fouls, he seems to have turned a corner the last few games, if he continues to play with more confidence and take defenders on (like he did against Norwich) and shoot when he gets a decent sight of goal (like he did, and scored, against QPR) then he could have a good season.

Well said.

He is a damn good player who players don't know how to stop without fouling.

The trouble for defenders (and the benefit to Long/RFC) is that they will soon start backing off
which means he will get more chances.

[Snowball]

Incidentally, Wycombe and others. Think on this.

Long has scored 38 goals, 6 of which have been penalties.

Of those 4 of the last 5 goals have been penalties. All those penalties HE WON (And he also won another penalty which Harte took)

Now I realise you are all ultra-pessimists and convert that fact to "Long cannot score in open play" (despite the fact that he has scored twice in open play this season)


BUT IS THERE NOT ANOTHER FAR MORE LOGICAL INTERPRETATION?

Long is getting into the box now, with power and DRAWING FOULS with greater skill.
OR
Long is getting into such dangerous positions defenders are fouling him more often.
OR
Unlike earlier in his career, it's almost impossible to dispossess Long in the area without giving away a foul

There is a very sound statistical-logical argument for this. Namely that the penalties are compressed into recent games 67% (really it's 5/7 = 70%) in the last 10 games. That clearly shows a very definite change in what is happening when Long gets the ball in the box.