Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

Snowball,
To compare Long with Walcott in your earlier post is plain crazy.
Walcott is an ernomous talent with brains who I think has already scored something like 7 goals this season at the top level and doesn't play every week-Shane Long is a workmanlike lower division footballer.
Goalscoring is not something you can teach-you can create a greater calm in a player but a sense of positioning and awareness is something that players either have or haven't when they are strikers.
Long has shown that he can place a dead-ball penalty along with the best Premier League strikers but his finishing of a moving ball is strictly 3rd division.

Victor why do you and so many others fall into this stupid response-set? Not a word of my post suggested Long is in the Walcott camp. NOT-A-WORD.

The post was an example of a player maturing and learning/being taught to be a more clinical finisher

It was in response to someone saying that can't be taught. Of course it can.


When I was playing in the RAF (pretty crap but very fast) a coach took me aside and told me ONE tiny thing I was doing wrong. He said this. "You are bombing in on the right when the inside left or centre-forward is going for goal... that's good, but you always STOP as your team-mate shoots. DON'T STOP RUNNING. You'll get 5-10 goals a season from either the ball hitting the post, the keeper saving it and it drops to your feet, or someone clears it off the line, or even a shot gets screwed and is going wide."

That was all, don't stop running. It did get me a lot more goals.


Just an example. You can never teach genius, but geniuses don't play long in the CC.

You CAN teach craft and enough craft is art. It's what I do in my day job.

[Terminal Boardom]

Noel Hunt was severealy disrupted by injuries at Dunfermline and nearly half of his 80 league appearances (38 to be exact) were as a substitute.

I'm sure. That means he had 42 Starts (52.5%) and 38 Sub Appearances ( = 48.2 ) for his 8 goals, a little worse than 1 in 6 STARTS

In Shane Long's first 4 Seasons he had 28 (70) League Appearances Just 28.6% Starts

In Shane Long's first 5 Seasons he had 45 (79) League Appearances Just 38.7% Starts

This season he has been starting, but that means in his whole career on 45.8% of his League Appearances have been starts.

If he starts every single league game for the rest of the season his League starts will be 95 (79) = 54.5% about where Noel was at Dunfermline

SHANE LONG

League ---------------- Cup

01 (10) 03 Goals ==== 04 (00) 1 Goals 2005-06
09 (12) 02 Goals ==== 03 (00) 2 Goals 2006-07
07 (22) 03 Goals ==== 03 (00) 0 Goals 2007-08
11 (26) 09 Goals ==== 04 (00) 0 Goals 2008-09
22 (09) 06 Goals ==== 02 (03) 3 Goals 2009-10
17 (00) 04 Goals ==== 00 (01) 0 Goals 2010-11

67 (79) 27 Goals ==== 16 (04) 6 Goals Career

95 (79)

Come on Snowball, compare like for like. Take into account the number of minutes that Noel Hunt was on the pitch. Then it would be a fair comparison.

[glass half full]

Forrest Gump didn't stop running, either, Snowball.

[Snowball]

Come on Snowball, compare like for like. Take into account the number of minutes that Noel Hunt was on the pitch. Then it would be a fair comparison.

I presume you are taking the piss.

However, if you are not, let me know when you or someone else has trawled though
Dunfermline/Dundee's ten-year old records and collated his minute-played.

I've done Long's.

[Snowball]

Forrest Gump didn't stop running, either, Snowball.

I'm sure that means something in some universe.

[Terminal Boardom]

The key difference with Shane Long is thyat he came into football very late for a youngster and did not go through any youth academies or the like. He IS raw and is not a natural footballer. What he does though is to play to his strengths. I am yet to be convinced from what I have seen that he will ever become a regular 15-20 goal merchant. I hope he does but I can not see it.

[Terminal Boardom]

Come on Snowball, compare like for like. Take into account the number of minutes that Noel Hunt was on the pitch. Then it would be a fair comparison.

I presume you are taking the piss.

However, if you are not, let me know when you or someone else has trawled though
Dunfermline/Dundee's ten-year old records and collated his minute-played.

I've done Long's.

You seem to have a prediliction to quote numbers to suit your own argument. Thankfully, I have plenty of other interests in my life which I find far more fulfilling than totting up the number of nano-seconds that a footballer spends picking his nose.

Considering that almost 50% of Noel Hunt's Dunfermline appearances were from the bench must say something and will have some sort of impact on his goalscoring abilities. ABILITY. Good word that. Sadly, Shane Long is not blessed with natural footballing ability. What he does is the best with what he has.

Trevor Senior was one of the laziest footballers about. But just look at the number of goals he scored.

[Ian Royal]

EDITED:

Just to post the complete list again; this is important as (one of the many things I've learnt from you) the absolute number of goals means nothing out of context.

Long 1 goal from 27 (or 30) attempts

Hunt 3 from 12
Church 3 from 22
Kebe 4 from 26
Karacan 2 from 18
Mills 2 from 9

And Hunt and Church have 6 goals between them this season. Long has 4. 6 is more than 4.

Cheers dude, that's interesting reading.

[Snowball]

The key difference with Shane Long is thyat he came into football very late for a youngster and did not go through any youth academies or the like. He IS raw and is not a natural footballer. What he does though is to play to his strengths. I am yet to be convinced from what I have seen that he will ever become a regular 15-20 goal merchant. I hope he does but I can not see it.

It's a fair enough point, but defies basic logic.

Shane played:

15 (26) Games 1,953 Minutes in 2008-09
24 (12) Games 2,246 Minutes in 2009-10

Total 4,199 Minutes

46 * 90 minutes is 4,140 Minutes so surely (he's without question a better player now) he could match that and score 18 goals?

It's clear he's slightly behind schedule this season, 2010-11, but not by all that much. He's always done better second half of the season and he's on target for 11-12 without improvement, so it would take very very little change to get to 15. So there's two "logical elements" to suggest he will do it.

UNLESS, you believe it's HARDER to score at rate X over 46 games

I think it's EASIER because partnerships get better, you get more experience

[glass half full]

Forrest Gump didn't stop running, either, Snowball.

I'm sure that means something in some universe.

Sorry, Snowball. What I meant, -albeit obscurely - was that he kept on trying. This was meant as a form of support for you and for Shane Long, who, whatever may be said about him, keep on trying.

[Snowball]

Considering that almost 50% of Noel Hunt's Dunfermline appearances were from the bench must say something and will have some sort of impact on his goalscoring abilities. ABILITY. Good word that. Sadly, Shane Long is not blessed with natural footballing ability. What he does is the best with what he has.

Trevor Senior was one of the laziest footballers about. But just look at the number of goals he scored.

And Shane? HIS league appearances for RFC are LESS starts

45.8% League Appearances have been starts. LONG, Reading
52.5% League Appearances have been starts. HUNT, Dunfermline

I am merely making the point that both players played bit-parts and that neither appears to have been advantaged or disadvantaged


The original point being made is that they were young and UNDER-developed.

Hunt may be coming in to his own, because he is 27 next month, ie just entering his playing peak years.

Long, if anything, is the one disadvantaged

[Snowball]

Sorry, Snowball. What I meant, -albeit obscurely - was that he kept on trying. This was meant as a form of support for you and for Shane Long, who, whatever may be said about him, keep on trying.

No probs. I am totally serious when I say I believe Shane Long to be real quality
and vastly under-estimated by too many. If it's true he's on 15K a week and
the club didn't think he was worth it, why would they extend his contract?

[Wycombe Royal]

Considering that almost 50% of Noel Hunt's Dunfermline appearances were from the bench must say something and will have some sort of impact on his goalscoring abilities. ABILITY. Good word that. Sadly, Shane Long is not blessed with natural footballing ability. What he does is the best with what he has.

Trevor Senior was one of the laziest footballers about. But just look at the number of goals he scored.

And Shane? HIS league appearances for RFC are LESS starts

45.8% League Appearances have been starts. LONG, Reading
52.5% League Appearances have been starts. HUNT, Dunfermline

I am merely making the point that both players played bit-parts and that neither appears to have been advantaged or disadvantaged


The original point being made is that they were young and UNDER-developed.

Hunt may be coming in to his own, because he is 27 next month, ie just entering his playing peak years.

Long, if anything, is the one disadvantaged

The other thing about Hunt at Dunfermline was that they weren't exactly free scorers as a team and in one of the seasons I think they only managed a goal per game.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

And Shane? HIS league appearances for RFC are LESS starts

FEWER

[Terminal Boardom]

The key difference with Shane Long is thyat he came into football very late for a youngster and did not go through any youth academies or the like. He IS raw and is not a natural footballer. What he does though is to play to his strengths. I am yet to be convinced from what I have seen that he will ever become a regular 15-20 goal merchant. I hope he does but I can not see it.

It's a fair enough point, but defies basic logic.

Shane played:

15 (26) Games 1,953 Minutes in 2008-09
24 (12) Games 2,246 Minutes in 2009-10

Total 4,199 Minutes

46 * 90 minutes is 4,140 Minutes so surely (he's without question a better player now) he could match that and score 18 goals?

It's clear he's slightly behind schedule this season, 2010-11, but not by all that much. He's always done better second half of the season and he's on target for 11-12 without improvement, so it would take very very little change to get to 15. So there's two "logical elements" to suggest he will do it.

UNLESS, you believe it's HARDER to score at rate X over 46 games

I think it's EASIER because partnerships get better, you get more experience

Of course I accept that as partnerships develop, the net results would be expected to improve. Therein lies the problem. Football is a game made up of many partnerships all over the pitch. Right back and right wing, central defence, central midfield and so on. The problem is that very few partnerships have been able to develop before suspension, loss of form or injury come to bear.

I wonder how long a player ceases to be regarded as "work in progress".

[Snowball]

And Shane? HIS league appearances for RFC are LESS starts

FEWER

I'm a professional writer with 400 publications including five novels and a collection of prize-winning short stories. LESS is totally fine by me.

The less-fewer disntinction is anal.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

And Shane? HIS league appearances for RFC are LESS starts

FEWER

I'm a professional writer with 400 publications including five novels and a collection of prize-winning short stories. LESS is totally fine by me.

The less-fewer disntinction is anal.

And yet is gramatically correct.

[Snowball]

Language, and grammar evolves.

Some distinctions are important.

Less versus Fewer is not an important distinction.

[Snowball]

Perhaps this thread should be Long - Time to GROW

Watford's scorer Troy Deeney says:

“I was quite surprised I was being marked from the corner by Shane Long because he’s only about 2ft 2in and I just ran him over.”

[Ian Royal]

Just checked out Noel Hunt's scoring record for us. We don't want to use him much as a game changing sub (I don't think he's managed to score in the league as a sub yet), but he sure as hell should be starting for us (as he is currently). 16 league goals in 36 starts is pretty good. And he's obviously hot at the moment with his 3 in 3.

The question should be does he take The Sig's role in the hole, do we replace Long with him, or do we switch to 4-4-2? Church looked promising in the hole in one match, but then wasn't so great the next, Howard has had the odd decent appearance there.