Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

That's very sad, 2WW

[Hoop Blah]

Or the club-with-player's joint evaluation, as agreed, might be very high, higher than other clubs want to pay...

Or in other words, McDermott and the powers that be at Reading rate Long higher than the rest of those managers who could afford to match our valuation.

Which was the point I was making that, although McDermott seems to rate him (or at least can't afford to buy someone he'd rather play) the 15 odd managers in the top tier obviously don't (as yet that is).

It probably suggests that there are 10-15 managers in England who don't rate him highly enough to buy him from a club who have shown they're willing to sell anyone who attracts a half decent fee.

[Millsy]

That's very sad, 2WW

Sorry, don't want to upset you. I've no hard feelings towards you and admire that you're trying to defend a Reading player but the fact is you've twisted stats to such a degree and moved goalposts so much in what seems an increasingly futile, desperate and now comedic attempt to defend the guy that you're actually doing more damage than good to Long. A simple "yeah I hold my hands up and accept that he's *currently* a horrific striker but I think he'll improve with time or may be suited elsewhere on the pitch" would be a decent, credible and fair statement. Stat twisting where you equate assists to goals and then display the results in bold as some sort of fact etc are actually counterproductive and turn people like me (who used to do the player defending before you came along) against your goalpost moving and your twisted stats...and remember I was one of the few/only people to keep thanking you for your stats in the early days when they seemed genuine and respectable and not twisted and distorted beyond belief to fit your agenda. It's getting beyond a joke. You're doing more harm than good to Long's reputation. You talk about the cold truth above. Well, this is why I'm cutting through all the rubbish stats and utter nonsense with the one undeniable fact of cold truth. And I will do so until this thread dies a death it should have died a long time ago, because quite frankly there is no defence for a striker who, no matter how many times he's been fouled in the area, no matter how many times he's assisted a goal (which is a basic duty of a striker btw and nothing special), no matter how hard he works or how good he is to animals and how much he gives to charity, there is no defence for a striker who has only scored one goal all season.

One goal.

[brendywendy]

except hes scored 6

[Snowball]

That's very sad, 2WW

Sorry, don't want to upset you. I've no hard feelings towards you and admire that you're trying to defend a Reading player but the fact is you've twisted stats to such a degree and moved goalposts so much in what seems an increasingly futile, desperate and now comedic attempt to defend the guy that you're actually doing more damage than good to Long. A simple "yeah I hold my hands up and accept that he's *currently* a horrific striker but I think he'll improve with time or may be suited elsewhere on the pitch" would be a decent, credible and fair statement. Stat twisting where you equate assists to goals and then display the results in bold as some sort of fact etc are actually counterproductive and turn people like me (who used to do the player defending before you came along) against your goalpost moving and your twisted stats...and remember I was one of the few/only people to keep thanking you for your stats in the early days when they seemed genuine and respectable and not twisted and distorted beyond belief to fit your agenda. It's getting beyond a joke. You're doing more harm than good to Long's reputation. You talk about the cold truth above. Well, this is why I'm cutting through all the rubbish stats and utter nonsense with the one undeniable fact of cold truth. And I will do so until this thread dies a death it should have died a long time ago, because quite frankly there is no defence for a striker who, no matter how many times he's been fouled in the area, no matter how many times he's assisted a goal (which is a basic duty of a striker btw and nothing special), no matter how hard he works or how good he is to animals and how much he gives to charity, there is no defence for a striker who has only scored one goal all season.

One goal.

SIX Goals

Long doesn't need my protection. It's late November, he's been playing in a team, which, according to you lot
wasn't cutting out chances, a team/squad that lost Gylfi and Rasiak, and has brought in one new player (now two)
and had four fullbacks to date, just 18 matches into the season, tried all sorts of combinations in midfield/attack
to try and find the best blend, has asked Long to battle away for 12-13-14 games on his own. Despite that he has
won four penalties for his club (all scored, three by him) and scored another goal, a superb 25 yarder against the
best side in the league.

He has also been directly involved in about half of all our goals (in the games he played)

Proof of his quality lies in the fact that in 2 90 minute games and one 29 minute sub appearance he has scored
2 goals (one in open play) and TWICE won Man of the Match against such relative greats as Doyle, Dunne, Keane.

The Ireland manager praises him and says he is genuine competition for Doyle and Keane. Not bad for a 23-Year Old
up against two premiership players, the cheapest of which cost £6.5 Million.

The READING manager praises him and picks him. I trust his professional judgment.

[cmonurz]

except hes scored 6

No, he hasn't.

[brendywendy]

but yes he has.

[Wycombe Royal]

except hes scored 6

No, he hasn't.

Yes he has, but only 4 for Reading and only one of those from open play. And that is the key. We WANT goals from open play. Church has three, Hunt has three, Long only has one.

You cannot rely upon penalties. He needs to take up better positions in the box and put away the chances he is given. He needs to be more instinctive. Would he have scored the goal the Hunt did against Watford? Probably not. Would he have scored the goal then Hunt scored against Norwich? Probably not.

And that is the issue. He just doesn't look like scoring the more straightforward goals. His only goal from open play for us is a 25 yard wonder strike.

[brendywendy]

whatif Nhunt gets 25 goals this season, half set up by long, and long scores another 6 penaltys only

would that be enough?

[Wycombe Royal]

whatif Nhunt gets 25 goals this season, half set up by long, and long scores another 6 penaltys only

would that be enough?

Hunt won't get 25 goals this season.

Long won't get that many assists.

Long needs to score more from open play.

I don't do hypothetical situations.

[Hoop Blah]

whatif Nhunt gets 25 goals this season, half set up by long, and long scores another 6 penaltys only

would that be enough?

That would be fine, how likely do you think it is?

Hunt would need to score at pretty much a goal a game for the rest of the season. I'm not sure he'll even play that many games let alone score that many goals!

[Snowball]

Yes he has, but only 4 for Reading and only one of those from open play. And that is the key. We WANT goals from open play. Church has three, Hunt has three, Long only has one.

You cannot rely upon penalties. He needs to take up better positions in the box and put away the chances he is given. He needs to be more instinctive. Would he have scored the goal the Hunt did against Watford? Probably not. Would he have scored the goal then Hunt scored against Norwich? Probably not.

And that is the issue. He just doesn't look like scoring the more straightforward goals. His only goal from open play for us is a 25 yard wonder strike.

WHY can't you "rely on penalties"? When did the penalty get reduced to .00001 of a goal?

I absolutely totally would not care the tiniest damn if we got a penalty every single game until the end of the season. It's-a-GOAL.

And why exactly do you keep harping on about open-play goals? Long has scored 33 goals for his club of which 28 were in open play. He has scored 5 for his country, of which 4 were in open play. So less than 16% of his goals have been penalties.

And it's not as if penalties are easy to score. Gylfi missed 1 last season. Howard missed all 1 of his penalties. Winning penalties is an art, scoring penalties is important. It's simple really, Long is top-scorer of RFC goals so you can't use that to bash him..... so switch to open play. Go find where there were complaints when Hunt was scoring so many pens. Did any of you complain when Doyle scored one of his 5 penalties for Reading? Or when Kitson scored SIX?

[Snowball]

Long needs to score more from open play.

I don't do hypothetical situations.

Isn't that a hypothesis?

[cmonurz]

It's an opinion.

[Snowball]

what if Nhunt gets 25 goals this season, half set up by long, and long scores another 6 penaltys only

would that be enough?

Yes, it would, even if it's a tall order, but BETWEEN them, if it's a regular partnership,
with 28 games plus at least one cup game, they could get 25 goals. They should get 20

14 or 15 in 29 is definitely possible, 10 in 29 isn't that special

20-25 from those two would take us to 48-53.

Say Church gets 3-5, Kebe 3-5, McAnuff 1-2, Pearce-Mills 4-6, Karacan 2-3. ANOTHERs 4-5 = 64-79

[Snowball]

It's an opinion.

He "NEEDS" to score more = hypothesis

[Wycombe Royal]

WHY can't you "rely on penalties"? When did the penalty get reduced to .00001 of a goal?

Because he won't keep getting them at the rate he has been. Managers of the opposition will be warning their players about him and they will change the way they defend against him.

I absolutely totally would not care the tiniest damn if we got a penalty every single game until the end of the season. It's-a-GOAL.

And why exactly do you keep harping on about open-play goals? Long has scored 33 goals for his club of which 28 were in open play. He has scored 5 for his country, of which 4 were in open play. So less than 16% of his goals have been penalties.

Firstly I'd be surprised if HE won more than another 4 this season. He cannot rely on them. He needs to put away the chances that are being created for him and he needs to take up positions where he gets more chances.

And I don't care what he has done in previous seasons in terms of open play goals. The simple fact is this season that on 1 out of 4 goals is from open play. For a main striker that is VERY POOR.

And it's not as if penalties are easy to score. Gylfi missed 1 last season. Howard missed all 1 of his penalties. Winning penalties is an art, scoring penalties is important. It's simple really, Long is top-scorer of RFC goals so you can't use that to bash him..... so switch to open play. Go find where there were complaints when Hunt was scoring so many pens. Did any of you complain when Doyle scored one of his 5 penalties for Reading? Or when Kitson scored SIX?

He is joint top scorer with a central defender, a left back and a winger and has only one more than Church and NHunt who have had far less playing time. And neither need penalties to bump up their total. Everything else in Shane's game is there (sometimes his first touch could be better), he now just needs to polish up on his composure and be more clinical with the chances he is given. THat is constructive criticism of him. As a player I would rather that than being told how great I am. He needs to improve certain areas of his game and there is no getting away from that.

[Wycombe Royal]

Long needs to score more from open play.

I don't do hypothetical situations.

Isn't that a hypothesis?

I was referring to brendys comments, not my reply. Maybe you should just stick to the topic rather than trying to be clever.....

[Hoop Blah]

I'd put money on Hunt not playing in 29 more games for Reading this season.

If we score enough goals as a team then I'm not overly bothered who gets them, but realistically, we need our forward(s) to be reliable scorers because they're the ones who should ultimately be in the right areas to score the most goals more frequently.

Longs misses have been pretty crucial this season. If only he'd been that little bit more clinical with those key chances we'd be in a very strong position.

[Snowball]

Can't help being clever, Wyc. I just am.