Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

WHY can't you "rely on penalties"? When did the penalty get reduced to .00001 of a goal?

Because he won't keep getting them at the rate he has been. Managers of the opposition will be warning their players about him and they will change the way they defend against him.

Precisely. So he'll get more shots away in the box and get more goals!

Firstly I'd be surprised if HE won more than another 4 this season. He cannot rely on them. He needs to put away the chances that are being created for him and he needs to take up positions where he gets more chances.

This season,
How many chances do you think he has had, genuinely created for him
(like, Say, the one he created for Antonio at Burnley, or Hunt at Watford?

And I don't care what he has done in previous seasons in terms of open play goals. The simple fact is this season that on 1 out of 4 goals is from open play. For a main striker that is VERY POOR.

But you SHOULD care.

His record shows that he is normally a good finisher, MORE ACCURATE THAN DOYLE
so either he's carrying an injury, gone soft, is over the hill or being played wrong.

He is joint top scorer with a central defender, a left back and a winger and has only one more than Church and NHunt who have had far less playing time. And neither need penalties to bump up their total. Everything else in Shane's game is there (sometimes his first touch could be better), he now just needs to polish up on his composure and be more clinical with the chances he is given. THat is constructive criticism of him. As a player I would rather that than being told how great I am. He needs to improve certain areas of his game and there is no getting away from that.

He is joint top scorer. He has been involved in more goals than any other team player, and there is no getting away from that.

[Man Friday]

I was really tring to keep out but I'll just say this. I like shane Long. I want him in the team. I want him to stay at Reading for a long (ouch) time. However, we're 3 months into the season, Shane has been our main striker and he's scored only one goal for us from open play. He's done some great stuff including winning penalties (and converting them) but one goal from open play is an "area for improvement" in my opinion. The trouble is of course, if he'd scored, say, 7-8 from open play by this stage of the season, then the big clubs would come chasing and we'd sell him.

[Wycombe Royal]

Can't help being clever, Wyc. I just am.

If that was you being clever then I really worry for you........

[Victor Meldrew]

Despite Snowball's bold attempts to have us believe that Hunt and Doyle are better than Drogba and Torres it is good to see elsewhere that Brian is looking to bring in at least one more striker.
At last his professional side is taking over from his emotional side and he realises that our striking department needs increasing and improving,i.e. just as most of us have been saying for the past 3 months.
Regrettably it has been left till the last minute (to save on wages?)and probably won't happen but we can live in hope that our future success will not depend upon the Irish.

[Wycombe Royal]

WHY can't you "rely on penalties"? When did the penalty get reduced to .00001 of a goal?

Because he won't keep getting them at the rate he has been. Managers of the opposition will be warning their players about him and they will change the way they defend against him.

Precisely. So he'll get more shots away in the box and get more goals!

Possibly and I hope he does, but he'll need to be more clinical in his finishing than he is now.

Firstly I'd be surprised if HE won more than another 4 this season. He cannot rely on them. He needs to put away the chances that are being created for him and he needs to take up positions where he gets more chances.

This season,
How many chances do you think he has had, genuinely created for him
(like, Say, the one he created for Antonio at Burnley, or Hunt at Watford?

Very few, but this comes back to him not getting in the right positions. He has had quite a few chances when through one-on-one and he has fluffed all of them.

And I don't care what he has done in previous seasons in terms of open play goals. The simple fact is this season that on 1 out of 4 goals is from open play. For a main striker that is VERY POOR.

But you SHOULD care.

His record shows that he is normally a good finisher, MORE ACCURATE THAN DOYLE
so either he's carrying an injury, gone soft, is over the hill or being played wrong.

Why should I care? He could have scored 30 goals last season, but if he isn't scoring now then I would be worried. It is NOW that counts not last season. There is a saying - you are only as good as your last game. But that is a bit extreme.

He is joint top scorer with a central defender, a left back and a winger and has only one more than Church and NHunt who have had far less playing time. And neither need penalties to bump up their total. Everything else in Shane's game is there (sometimes his first touch could be better), he now just needs to polish up on his composure and be more clinical with the chances he is given. THat is constructive criticism of him. As a player I would rather that than being told how great I am. He needs to improve certain areas of his game and there is no getting away from that.

He is joint top scorer. He has been involved in more goals than any other team player, and there is no getting away from that.

He is our main striker. He should be our outright top scorer. Not joint top with a central defender, a left back and a winger.

[brendywendy]

whatif Nhunt gets 25 goals this season, half set up by long, and long scores another 6 penaltys only

would that be enough?

Hunt won't get 25 goals this season.

Long won't get that many assists.

Long needs to score more from open play.

I don't do hypothetical situations.

what i was asking was a hypothetical question- so your input wasnt realy required, taking into account the brand new information i now have about you and hypotheticals

[brendywendy]

whatif Nhunt gets 25 goals this season, half set up by long, and long scores another 6 penaltys only

would that be enough?

That would be fine, how likely do you think it is?

Hunt would need to score at pretty much a goal a game for the rest of the season. I'm not sure he'll even play that many games let alone score that many goals!

not hugely- though i reckon if you take nhunts/shlongs form over the last 3 starts its not far off
i just picked numbers out of a hat really- my point being that whatever your view, the aboveshould be more than acceptable, and as the numbers come down it gets less and less acceptable, until there comes a point where you throw the toys out, and say long isnt good enough, and has to be dropped. just trying to work out where that would be for people.

[Snowball]

Can't help being clever, Wyc. I just am.

If that was you being clever then I really worry for you........

I appreciate you worrying about me.

You're a very dear person, despite what people say.

[Snowball]

Despite Snowball's bold attempts to have us believe that Hunt and Doyle are better than Drogba and Torres it is good to see elsewhere that Brian is looking to bring in at least one more striker. At last his professional side is taking over from his emotional side and he realises that our striking department needs increasing and improving,i.e. just as most of us have been saying for the past 3 months. Regrettably it has been left till the last minute (to save on wages?)and probably won't happen but we can live in hope that our future success will not depend upon the Irish.

So, did it happen?

[The Rouge]

Points that I would make (that will get lost amongst the personal arguments)

I in no way wish to defend Snowball's statistical input to these threads (he is happy to use very low samples when it suits him and judges too much on goals/results rather than what the eye sees in terms of performance) but I would like to make 1 point to all the Long h8rs on here...

Yes, he could have done better with 2 1-on-1s at Watford, but the point remains that no other striker we currently have at the club would have had those chances. Long is the only person with the pace to make the first chance a (kind of) 1-on-1 and the only person who would have chased down and got to the ball first for the second one...

[Snowball]

Possibly and I hope he does, but he'll need to be more clinical in his finishing than he is now.

He was known for being a good finisher. Wanna see the stats?

He has had quite a few chances when through one-on-one and he has fluffed all of them.

At Watford, first chance, he sprinted 50 yards after winning the ball himself in the first place. He was wide, and the defender did brilliantly.

Second chance, he should have done better by switching feet, but the keep DID do well.

Bristol, he looked like he tried to dink a cross. Maybe lack of confidence, not helped by the fans.

What other one-on-ones?

Why should I care? He could have scored 30 goals last season, but if he isn't scoring now then I would be worried. It is NOW that counts not last season. There is a saying - you are only as good as your last game. But that is a bit extreme.

It's not extreme, it's STUPID. So a player who scores 3 a game for 45 consecutive games and misses a penalty in the 46th game, is gash, obviously...

Class is permanent, form is temporary, and let's not also forget than Shane is not playing the classic attacking central striker much at all.

Most of the time he's in the channels or back to goal and passing sideways to his team-mates

He is our main striker. He should be our outright top scorer. Not joint top with a central defender, a left back and a winger.

Sorry but that is just total rubbish

All that matters is the average number og goals per game. Spreading them around is good

Last season's top-scorer (according to most of you) was a midfielder. Joint second was Kebe, winger.

Spurs? Gareth Bale, defender, is top scorer followed closely by van de Vaart, midfielder

[Ian Royal]

Church has a fair amount of pace, and will chase things down. Long isn't especially quick. But Church really lacks the weight and strength of Long so I think it's fair to say Long is likely to be the only one who'd get in those particular positions, just not the only one likely to get one-on-ones. The problem is it doesn't matter if he can't finish them.

He's had two against Watford, I believe there was at least another against Cardiff, though I forget. Then there's the one against Brizzle. So he's had an absolute minimum of 7 one-on-ones. He's been brought down with minimal contact on four of them having not looked particularly like he was about to score and has missed out on a minimum of a further three. And all of those misses were pretty poor.

There is an argument that if he can't put them away, there's no point in working to create them and we'd be better off with a different striker, or at least a different tactic. Unfortunately his heading at goal (previously a strength) has also been pretty woeful this season with a load of headers under relatively little, or no, pressure which haven't even been on target.

I think he needs time out of the team so he can pick himself up and come back into the side like a firecracker, needing to prove something, in his usual post Xmas strong period.

[Sarah Star]

Church lacks the weight and strength of Long

Really?

I think he's strong enough... probably lacks a few of the tricks that Long has up his sleeve though. Understandably since he hasn't played as much as Long in his career.

[Ian Royal]

Church lacks the weight and strength of Long

Really?

Yeah. Church is definitely slimmer, even since Long lost a few pounds last season. Long's fairly powerful for his size.

OS says:
Church 5'11" 11st 12lbs
Long 5'11" 12st 12lbs.

[Sarah Star]

But I've seen Church hold players off on his own, so I don't agree with you, Ian. Sorry. Getting past them is another matter...

[Ian Royal]

But I've seen Church hold players off on his own, so I don't agree with you, Ian. Sorry. Getting past them is another matter...

I'm not saying Church is weak, just that he isn't as strong or heavy as Long. Long can push a player off the ball and muscle his way into possession very well. It's how he wins a lot of lost causes. Church isn't nearly as good on that. Doesn't mean he can't do it at all though.

[Sarah Star]

It's a pity Long can't stay on his feet a bit more though - even if we do end up with an Ian Harte special free kick.

[Ian Royal]

It's a pity Long can't stay on his feet a bit more though - even if we do end up with an Ian Harte special free kick.

Oh I dunno, I think we've got at least four goals we wouldn't have had if he had stayed on his feet (the penalties)

I've just discovered Jay Tabb is the same height and weight as me.
Bit more hair mind.

[Sarah Star]

It's a pity Long can't stay on his feet a bit more though - even if we do end up with an Ian Harte special free kick.

Oh I dunno, I think we've got at least four goals we wouldn't have had if he had stayed on his feet (the penalties)

I've just discovered Jay Tabb is the same height and weight as me.
Bit more hair mind.

Is it because he knows he's not that clinical in front of goal?

I've seen Jay Tabb get knocked out by someone's knee.

[Ian Royal]

It's a pity Long can't stay on his feet a bit more though - even if we do end up with an Ian Harte special free kick.

Oh I dunno, I think we've got at least four goals we wouldn't have had if he had stayed on his feet (the penalties)

I've just discovered Jay Tabb is the same height and weight as me.
Bit more hair mind.

Is it because he knows he's not that clinical in front of goal?

I've seen Jay Tabb get knocked out by someone's knee.

Hmm, he's got me beat there. I've narrowly avoided concussing mysef with a broadsword, a pavement and flight of wooden steps before, but that's as close as I get.