Long - Time to go.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

For all the guff about Long and all the stats I STILL go with Schards opinion all those years ago, Long is not a striker and never will be, or words to that effect. ANd now it is looking like mid table mediocrity, finally.

[Snowball]

I was only talking about my "arguing" with you, no one elses. If you think I am trying to "burst your balloon" then you are wrong.

I wasn't. I thought I was clear on that.

Unfortunately what happens a lot in "hot" internet debates is one or two are spoiling for a fight (not talking about you) and 1-2 dozen enjoy hurling bombs and cute remarks, thinking they are cool.

That results in the cornered person (it's almost always a single individual) beginning to hear/read everything as an attack.

However some have tried to have intelligent debate with you but at times it is nigh on impossible because of your inability to accept anyone elses opinion. You have managed to wind up even the most reasoned posters on this forum over the past few weeks purely for that reason. Intelligent debate doesn't consist of you saying "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" but that is what it has boiled down to a lot of times.

I have never intended anything other than to be sincere, to justify my points by some sort of proof (mainly stats) to counteract the zillions of nothing-more-than-random, often knee-jerking opinions presented as fact.

Sadly I started by arguing FOR Shane Long and received abuse then which is regularly repeated in a smarmy, slithery way most of the time.

And I really hate seeing posts putting down players. There is a massive difference between examining issues constructively and "getting off on" ridiculing players in a manner that would get you punched in the mouth in the real world.

99% of the smart-arses making themselves feel big when they sneer at Shane Long, or Kebe, or Cummings, or Bikey, or did the same for Federici and now are gearing up to lambast Leighterwood are probably small-minded, small-lives little people. No doubt some still live with Mumsy in their 30s.

[From Despair To Where?]

Brett Pitman scored 3 goals in two League One games before being transferred to Bristol City

59 Goals in 173 Apps in total




He then had ten appearances for Bristol and failed to score any goals (one level higher) (Holt Lovers note)



But in two games he has suddenly got 3 goals and is up there with Hunt and Church


















2 Penalties

This would be the same Brett Pitman much unloved by Bournemouth fans because, in their opinion, all he ever did was goal hang and take penalties. Not a great example.

The crux of the issue surely is that for all his good work off the ball, Shane Long lacks composure in front of goal and it is the single biggest flaw in his overall game and no amount of number crunching will make me and many others on here think otherwise.

I am also uneasy with any suggestion that it is now part of our gameplan to draw fouls in and around the box. To me, this would suggests a lack of creativity, that we have to draw fouls and rely on set pieces. Last time I looked, we still palyed football, not hockey

[Wycombe Royal]

I have never said the goals don't count, I have just said they are not an indication of the form that striker is in. You could have a striker who does very little all game to the extent it is like playing with 10 men and he misses every chance presented to him. However he is the penalty taker and scores 15 of them in one season. Is his place justified in the team? No it isn't because someone else could quite easily take those penalties and the team would be better off with a striker who scores more open play goals.

It is simply NOT TRUE that anyone can take a penalty. RFC v Northampton, anyone? Most penalty shoot-outs? England v Germany? Tottenham Hotspur 2010?

When did I say ANYONE can take a penalty? I said someone else could (yet again you don't read someones comments properly). For example in our team Harte could. In every team there will be MORE THAN ONE penalty taker.

[Snowball]

This would be the same Brett Pitman much unloved by Bournemouth fans because, in their opinion, all he ever did was goal hang and take penalties. Not a great example. The crux of the issue surely is that for all his good work off the ball, Shane Long lacks composure in front of goal and it is the single biggest flaw in his overall game and no amount of number crunching will make me and many others on here think otherwise.

Point 1

Prior to this season he was MORE ACCURATE, more deadly than any other player including Doyle. Finishing chances was NOT his problem, never has been. Being in the right place to get GOOD chances is another thing, but he does a lot of wide work, working for the team and thus lowers his own chance of being on the penalty spot when the ball comes in.

Don't take my word for it. Go look at shots, shots on target, shots off target, goal. Percentage wise he matches the best we have or have had in recent times.

I am also uneasy with any suggestion that it is now part of our gameplan to draw fouls in and around the box. To me, this would suggests a lack of creativity, that we have to draw fouls and rely on set pieces. Last time I looked, we still played football, not hockey.

I am by no means the only person to suggest this this season. Isn't that why we bought Harte? Earlier this season someone (Stranded?) suggested that Long was looking to be hacked down on the edge of the box (game-plan was inferred) so that Harte could do the business.

And we DO lack creativity. Jem OCCASIONALLY plays a fantastic ball (like Hunt's goal v Norwich) but after that we are down, more or less to Howard whose defensive frailties cause us other problems. Much as i think Kebe is far too good for Reading our wing play is not CREATIVE. it's beat the player and shoot or beat the player and bung it into the box in hope.

Take a look at all our 28 goals and see which ones were WORKED, creative goals.

[Snowball]

When did I say ANYONE can take a penalty? I said someone else could (yet again you don't read someones comments properly). For example in our team Harte could. In every team there will be MORE THAN ONE penalty taker.

It's the phrase: "No it isn't because someone else could quite easily take those penalties


I read that as penalty-taking is no big deal

[Platypuss]

When did I say ANYONE can take a penalty? I said someone else could (yet again you don't read someones comments properly). For example in our team Harte could. In every team there will be MORE THAN ONE penalty taker.

It's the phrase: "No it isn't because someone else could quite easily take those penalties


I read that as penalty-taking is no big deal

Why would you do that?

[Mr Angry]

If its a choice between a lazy goal hanger who gets 20 goals a season, or a hard-working guy who gets 5 goals a season, I know who I would rather have in the team thank you very much!!!

[Snowball]

WORKED GOALS or Huff and Puff?

Not that many goals that aren't solo-goals, penalties, direct free-kicks, goals from set-pieces


BUT worked goals are becoming much more common recently

2 out of the first 16 goals were worked, (12.5%) 7 out of the next 12 (59%)

Looks like we ARE getting more creative. That is counter my intuition.


Goal 01 NOT WORKED Gylfi solo goal, Scunthorpe.
Goal 02 NOT WORKED Kebe scramble from Gylfi Corner, Portmouth.
Goal 03 NOT WORKED Pearce shot from Long’s assist, scramble basically Forest
Goal 04 YES, WORKED!! Gylfi over keeper after Long wins ball for Kebe to pass, Leicester
Goal 05 NOT WORKED Mills header from Howard corner, Leicester
Goal 06 NOT WORKED Long solo run wins penalty and he scores it. Palace
Goal 07 NOT WORKED Karacan pass, Long wins penalty. Taken by Harte who scores. Palace
Goal 08 NOT WORKED Kebe on break. Last pass? Long already off. Palace
Goal 09 NOT WORKED Kebe solo goal with assist from Howard, Boro
Goal 10 YES, WORKED. Kebe brilliant header from HRK’s cross.
Goal 11 DIRECT FREE KICK Harte free-kick.
Goal 12 BREAKAWAY. HRK solo on break, after Karacan pass.
Goal 13 NOT WORKED Church deflects Karacan shot from Harte corner deflected outwards.
Goal 14 NOT WORKED Kebe wins corner, Harte, half-cleared, Karacan screamer
Goal 15 NOT WORKED Long wins penalty and scores it.
Goal 16 NOT WORKED Free-Kick. Harte, part-clearance, McAnuff scores
Goal 17 YES, WORKED Long gets to by-line and squares for Antonio
Goal 18 YES, WORKED Howard puts Church through, Church scores but it looks like a mis-hit
Goal 19 SET PIECE Harte free-kick, HRK heads back, Long back-heel, Mills bundles it in
Goal 20 YES WORKED. Hunt, good work, great cross, brilliant header from Karacan
Goal 21 NOT WORKED Harte scores a free-kick after handball
Goal 22 YES, WORKED Howard, great ball to Antonio, who crosses for Church. Goal!
Goal 23 NOT WORKED. Long from 25 Yards
Goal 24 YES, WORKED. Karacan and Church combine, practised move Hunt ghosts in on far post
Goal 25 NOT WORKED. Harte in goal-mouth scramble
Goal 26 YES, WORKED. Lovely pass from Karacan, neat finish over keeper from Hunt
Goal 27 NOT WORKED Long penalty
Goal 28 YES, WORKED!! Harte gets Long away, good cross, Hunts sidefoots goal

[Snowball]

When did I say ANYONE can take a penalty? I said someone else could (yet again you don't read someones comments properly). For example in our team Harte could. In every team there will be MORE THAN ONE penalty taker.

It's the phrase: "No it isn't because someone else could quite easily take those penalties


I read that as penalty-taking is no big deal

Why would you do that?

Use of the English language.

[Snowball]

If its a choice between a lazy goal hanger who gets 20 goals a season, or a hard-working guy who gets 5 goals a season, I know who I would rather have in the team thank you very much!!!

Agreed.


The only problem is, would the chances still happen now we have lost a worker?

[PlasticRoyale]

Just back from Ireland - watched the game against Norway, everybody there thinks he's shit as well

[Millsy]

I don't and never will, exclude penalties.

[Victor Meldrew]

Just back from Ireland - watched the game against Norway, everybody there thinks he's shit as well

Perhaps you could say that loud and clear to Snowball,oh and to Father McDermott.

[Snowball]

Just back from Ireland - watched the game against Norway, everybody there thinks he's shit as well

Perhaps you could say that loud and clear to Snowball,oh and to Father McDermott.

And tell Trapattoni he hasn't got a clue either

[Snowball]

Was browsing who has scored penalties..

QPR have scored EIGHT already this season from their 25 goals = 22.86% of all their goals

Burnley have had at least 6 Penalties in their 30 Goals = 20%

By comparison Reading have 4 from 28 = 14.28%

So it doesn't seem we are exactly hogging the "let's get a penalty" stakes


On the individual level, here are a few penalty scoreers

11 (03) Appearances 3 Total Goals includes 3 Penalties = 100% Alexander (Burnley)
15 (03) Appearances 4 Total Goals includes 3 Penalties = 075% Lukas Jutkiewitz (Coventry)
14 (01) Appearances 6 Total Goals includes 4 Penalties = 067% Liam Lawrence (Portsmouth)
13 (04) Appearances 5 Total Goals includes 3 Penalties = 060% Eagles (Burnley)
13 (00) Appearances 5 Total Goals includes 3 Penalties = 060% Heidar Helgusson (QPR)
04 (09) Appearances 2 Total Goals includes 1 Penalties = 050% Tommy Smith (QPR)
13 (01) Appearances 6 Total Goals includes 3 Penalties = 050% Billy Sharp (Doncaster)
19 (00) Appearances 9 Total Goals includes 4 Penalties = 044% Taraabt (QPR)

[PlasticRoyale]

Just back from Ireland - watched the game against Norway, everybody there thinks he's shit as well

Perhaps you could say that loud and clear to Snowball,oh and to Father McDermott.

And tell Trapattoni he hasn't got a clue either

He hasn't got a choice

[From Despair To Where?]

Discussing anything with Snowball is like reasoning with a religious fundamantalist.

He's declared a statistical Jihad.

[Snowball]

Just back from Ireland - watched the game against Norway, everybody there thinks he's shit as well

Lots of people watched it here on TV and he looked pretty good, got MotM

[Snowball]

And tell Trapattoni he hasn't got a clue either

He hasn't got a choice

How about Noel Hunt of Reading. Didn't he just get three goals in three games in the CCC?

And there's always that bloke Doyle. He's scored a whole Premiership goal this season