Mikele Leigertwood

[Snowball]

[[/b][/
No, because the "ppg" show what it would mean if they were all league games. It's hardly fair to ignore 20% of his games

I would argue its hardly fair to include win against a mid table league 2 side

we haven't lost a game he has played in fine, but don't then extrapolate that up to ppg for the league. We need to take yesterdays result "with a pinch of salt" as far as the league is concerned.

As for not including cup games under coppell coz he fielded "reserves", or what I would call fringe players. You think that would have been the team we would have played if it had been a league game yesterday? Ivar? KRK? and arguably church?

McDermott fielded his strongest-possible side (unless you are saying he's a liar")

We've played a Premiership side and Stevenage who BEAT a Premiership side. That for me cancels things out quite nicely.

The "ppg" is quite clearly posted in quotation marks, and is merely REPRESENTATIVE.

But feel free to keep moaning. It makes no difference to me

[Ian Royal]

I haven't seen the games where he has apparently been brilliant, though I intend to catch up on them at some point. But I thought against Stevenage he showed some excellent moments... winning challenges and playing good simple passes on the deck. But we should have put our foot on the ball and controlled the game much more, rather than playing shit pinball hoofball. And Leigterwood and Karacan have to take responsibility for that.

We were non-existent in midfield for the first 30 odd minutes of the second half and we never took control and dominated.

We desperately need a creative passer in the middle. Much as I've really loved seeing Karacan come on this season, and that I think the praise Leigterwood gets is over the top... I think he'd work relatively well with Howard and that combination would give us much more passing ability and creativity and keep a fair amount of tough tackling. Although it might be a little immobile.

[AthleticoSpizz]

sorry to continually rake over old coals (in a Talksport/Torres banal kind've way), but as Royalee once said

I hope we send him back to QPR permanently, he's utter shit.

Royalee still hasn't the grace to gag on his own words just yet tho'

[Wimb]

I have been including cup games since McDermott took over.

I didn't under Coppell because we fielded reserve sides.

He's at least been consistant, though only Snowball in the known statistical universe includes cup games (including those won in extra time) to extrapolate league points.

And if I ignored an extra time game's results, you'd have a go for that.

You play a tie, you win it or lose or draw it. The only exception to a "result" is I would never include a penalty shoot out cos it's a lottery.

I think it would be farcical to say "we drew at Liverpool".

Exactly why I simply wouldn't include ANY cup results as any sort of representation of potential league performance.

And for the record, McDermott hasn't played his strongest team in the League Cup.

As I said, you're in the VAST minority of people who would include cup games and league games together when trying to extrapolate POINTS, by all means they are a usefull indicator of form but anything beyond that is silly.

Still my opinion, you clearly have yours and we'll agree to disagree.

[Snowball]

The ppg is an indicator of form, always has been when I've posted.

I think it's totally reasonable to include cup games where we put out a serious team.


End.

[Wycombe Royal]

I think

And that is the most sensible thing you've said on the subject. And yes you are in a very small minority who thinks that way.

[Snowball]

I think

And that is the most sensible thing you've said on the subject. And yes you are in a very small minority who thinks that way.

Shall we see if we can get 1,000 posts each on this subject?

[Wycombe Royal]

I think

And that is the most sensible thing you've said on the subject. And yes you are in a very small minority who thinks that way.

Shall we see if we can get 1,000 posts each on this subject?

I think you are way too far ahead of me already for it to be an even contest. I'll just stick with being in the big majority.

[Wimb]

I think

And that is the most sensible thing you've said on the subject. And yes you are in a very small minority who thinks that way.

Agreed.

[Snowball]

Being in a minority of one doesn't make you wrong

[Wimb]

Being in a minority of one doesn't make you wrong

Nope. However when the vast majority of football statisticians professional and amateur go with the 'majority' it could perhaps mean you're in a minority for good reason. Not that you've EVER admitted you could be wrong on anything.... An ounce of humility and the occasional admission that an opinion/methodology other than yours might be correct or reasonable would go a long way.

[Wycombe Royal]

Being in a minority of one doesn't make you wrong

Answer me this (the answer required is a yes or no) - do you get points for winning or drawing cup matches?

[weybridgewanderer]

Being in a minority of one doesn't make you wrong

I suspect that the minority is satistically insignificant.

[Snowball]

Being in a minority of one doesn't make you wrong

Answer me this (the answer required is a yes or no) - do you get points for winning or drawing cup matches?

Answer me this (the required answer is yes or now) - do you get points for being obtuse and ignoring explanations?

[Snowball]

Wimb, Wycombe, Weybridge


We are simply not generating enough bollox postings back and forth
arguing over something that isn't going to change. Please post 2-3 posts
each going over the same ground so we can get the post-count up.


Thank-you.

[Snowball]

Do the papers post notes on Elwood and say

Undefeated in 10 games, but 2 of them were cup so please ignore?



Here is an explanation.


Being aware that we do not get points for winning or drawing cup games, I enjoy looking at ALL games, provided the manager puts out a strong team and looking at ALL games, league and Cup games, that is, and thinking of them simply as games.

Now, thinking of them as games, and KNOWING that we do not get points for games (see earlier) I nevertheless treat ALL games, AS IF they were league games in order to assess the WDL ratios and the IMAGINED points per game (ppg) thus giving a more accurate rendition of the WDL ratios than merely looking at league games.

Please feel free to pick holes in the above (which will not change)

as I really have nothing to do as I've done my tax returns for 2005-2010
and might as well waste time here as anywhere else.

[Wycombe Royal]

Snowball, a few minutes ago:

[Wimb]

Snowball, a few minutes ago:

Sums it up perfectly. The fact you contradict your own arguments when defending yourself is the most humorous part of it all.

I sit 7 A-Levels an average of 70/100. I then also sit 3 Year 9 KS3 exam and get 100/100 on all 3, I then put on my CV, 'I completed 10 exams this year and finished with an average score of 79/100. By your methodology I could extrapolate that and say if I were to take another exam I'd get 79 or if I sat 10 A-Levels I'd average 79. After all I'm still putting out my "A' game so the circumstances of the exams don't matter do they?

What makes my blood boil (as much as it can over an argument on an internet forum) is the fact you are so hypocritical, in the space of 5 minutes saying 'what's the point in us arguing about it, it looks silly' then WRITING ANOTHER DEFENCE TO PUT FORWARD YOUR ARGUMENT. You might as well have said, 'let's put down our guns', then shot us in the arse as we walked back towards our lines.

This is what I mean when I've argued you are cowardly and run at the first sign of trouble in a debate. You'll move a goalpost or retreat behind such a wall of pointless stats shifting the argument rather then saying 'You know what I may have been wrong, I still believe XYZ but actually Poster 2, you may have a good point'

As self centred and egotistical as I have ever known on this forum, your statistics themselves can prove useful but your 'interpretations' and 'extrapolations' are at best tedious and at worst down right laughable.

Everyone has the right to express and opinion and put forward ideas, a forum would be utter garbage out of it, but you're no better then SDR or any other windup merchant with your one eyed, pathetic bias and crowing 'look at me I was right I'm never wrong' attitude.

If I'm out of order and wrong then let the masses decide but I've just about had enough of your utter crap and the way you're driving decent rational posters nuts.

[weybridgewanderer]

Wimb, Wycombe, Weybridge


We are simply not generating enough bollox postings back and forth
arguing over something that isn't going to change. Please post 2-3 posts
each going over the same ground so we can get the post-count up.


Thank-you.

agreed, ok, thank you

[weybridgewanderer]

Do the papers post notes on Elwood and say

Undefeated in 10 games, but 2 of them were cup so please ignore?



Here is an explanation.


Being aware that we do not get points for winning or drawing cup games, I enjoy looking at ALL games, provided the manager puts out a strong team and looking at ALL games, league and Cup games, that is, and thinking of them simply as games.

Now, thinking of them as games, and KNOWING that we do not get points for games (see earlier) I nevertheless treat ALL games, AS IF they were league games in order to assess the WDL ratios and the IMAGINED points per game (ppg) thus giving a more accurate rendition of the WDL ratios than merely looking at league games.

Please feel free to pick holes in the above (which will not change)

as I really have nothing to do as I've done my tax returns for 2005-2010
and might as well waste time here as anywhere else.

You just said stop, do you want start debating again now? I too have finally done my 2005-2010 tax returns!